For the Liberal Brigade

dathi1

Just in case you want more from "multiculturalism"

Our friends from al mahajorun are holding a leaflet drop in Stephens green centre this Saturday and Jury's hotel in Jan to discuss the benefits of Jihad against the west and how 9/11 was great. Just what we need. Must pop over to have a yap.
All we need now is a Bush visit.
www.muhajiroun.com
www.almuk.com/obm/events.html

sceptre

Hmmm, can't seem to see the leaflet about this Saturday - can you knock up a direct link? Can't see any real mention of jihad in the thing for January either.

I'm a bit lazy so are these the nice Muslims or the nutty ones? And where does this liberal brigade meet?

Originally posted by dathi1
All we need now is a Bush visit.

/waves wand
Rumours are for next April or May:)

DiscoStu

Originally posted by sceptre
I'm a bit lazy so are these the nice Muslims or the nutty ones?

these are the walnut whip of nutty muslims although i dont think they have killed anyone yet.

Didn't we go to America in the early stages of the century looking for support against our war with the british?

Sparks

Originally posted by sceptre
I'm a bit lazy so are these the nice Muslims or the nutty ones?

These guys are to the muslim community as the provisional IRA hardliners are to the Republic's catholic community. As every member of the liberal brigade knows, having taken the time to actually find out, right daithi?

Frank Grimes

Why is this for the "liberal brigade" out of interest?

mr_angry

I agree. These guys are hardly "liberal". I think "lunatics" is a better word.

Anyone wanna organise a mass protest?

Nevyn

yes tht wonderfull group that teach 13 year old boys how to use an ak47 as part of thier coming of age.

parasite

that picture makes me seethe with rage, i should rise above it ..calm blue ocean calm blue ocean

bug

.....so it is acceptable for them to attack the non-muslims in the west whether in retaliation for constant bombing and murder taking place all over the Muslim world at the hands of the non-muslims....

..magnificent 19 on 9/11....

Fatwa or Divine Decree Against those that Ally with the Disbelievers against the muslims article re: the invasion of Iraq

well I dont get it are they going to kill us or convert us? taking into account the poster above..

anyways I hope they see the irony in enforcing eastern ways/ideals on the west, I doubt it though.

Think I'll pop along too.

sceptre

Thanks for the info chaps

Originally posted by Frank Grimes
Why is this for the "liberal brigade" out of interest?

After the info from DiscoStu, Sparks et al, I think it's a "close the borders" thread. Now we know, carry on...

dathi1

Basically the whole purpose of this thread is to discuss the matter of this particular organisation. I know they represent a minority of Muslim thinking but they can have a dramatic effect on the overall agenda of young Muslim communities across Europe when the going gets tough. The debate should centre around: Does Section 31 offences against the state apply here? Racism? Incitement to hatred? Are they being treated in the same manner by the state security services with lets say the RIRA. Considering the crackdown in Finchley, London on this group... There's a whole load of stuff to debate here. Will there be a boycott against this group by lets say; Sein Fein, SWP, SP, ICTU, SIPTU as in the case with immigration control platform etc...

mr_angry

Funnily enough, the Irish mandate looks pretty reasonable. Its the London events that are being promoted as a celebration of the destruction of the West.

Lets all go along and play Metallica in the windows - welcome to Western culture. I'm sure they'll appreciate the convergence of cultures.

ReefBreak

Originally posted by dathi1
The debate should centre around: Does Section 31 offences against the state apply here? Racism? Incitement to hatred? Are they being treated in the same manner by the state security services with lets say the RIRA. Considering the crackdown in Finchley, London on this group... There's a whole load of stuff to debate here. Will there be a boycott against this group by lets say; Sein Fein, SWP, SP, ICTU, SIPTU as in the case with immigration control platform etc...

I doubt any of that will happen. The Liberal Brigade will be too busy trying to "engage" this group with "dialogue" in an effort to "understand" and "respect their grievances" vis-a-vis their "cultural significance" in society. Or something. In other words you'll get a bunch of former Arts Students playing touchy-feely politics and rambling on with meaningless soundbytes on the airwaves, when what should be done (IMHO) is that they should be arrested for promoting Hatred/Terrorism/Racism/Religious Intolerance, before being swiftly booted out of the country or thrown in the slammer.

Thing is, I consider myself a liberal regarding some issues (drugs, abortion, some issues on immigration, neo-liberal politics), but conservative on others (other issues on immigration, crime). I would consider the Liberal Brigade to be slightly different than just Liberal. I find the LBs to be just as conservative as the most entrenched Extreme Right-Winger. Obviously, their politics are completely different, but they are just as rigid in their opinions - and when any new LB doctrine appears on the scene, that just gets added to the list without thought or discussion. Well, that my opinion anyhow.

Zombrex

Originally posted by dathi1
Just in case you want more from "multiculturalism"

Our friends from al mahajorun are holding a leaflet drop in Stephens green centre this Saturday and Jury's hotel in Jan to discuss the benefits of Jihad against the west and how 9/11 was great

NEWS FLASH

"The island of Ireland is in the grip of panic today as it has emerged that foreign cultural influences have introduced a totally alien concepts to the people of Ireland. It is being reported that a small group of people, claiming to belong to the Islamic religion, are prompting their own religion as the one true religion, and are spreading the idea that violence should be used against those who do not believe in their religion.

Ireland has never experience anything like this before and many have called on the Taosieach to take swift action to keep us all blissfully protected from such alien and foreign ideas as terrorism and religious extremism. As part of this move all history books, newspapers and television reports dated before 1998 are to be burnt, in case they lead to any form of historical/cultural “confusion” for the peaceful people of Ireland.

Anti-immigration protesters interviewed were quick to say "I told you so" and called on the government to close all boarders to stop these totally foreign cultural ideas from entering our peaceful, tolerant island. When asked if this was a bit extreme the anti-immigration/monoculture a spokes person for the group said “any towel-head could be spreading hate and intolerance in our country, the only way to make sure is to ban them all of the dirty fecker.”

Before leaving to look up “irony” in a dictionary, the spokes person also called on the government to jail the so called "liberal brigade". He said this must be done before they can do any more damage to the country. The members of the "liberal brigade" can be identified by two little horns at the top of their heads, and are often seen talking to people of strange skin tone or with funny sounding accents. They are considered extremely dangerous so do not approach under any circumstances. The police told us you should just run away with your hands over your ears shouting "I'm not listening, I'm not listening" until you can find the nearest safe hole in sand to stick your head in."

Zombrex

Personally I think all the religious nut cases up that end of Grafton St. should all have the **** kicked out of them, Muslims, Jews, Christian, miscellaneous, the lot

If one more Scientologist idiot asks me if I want a "personality test" I am going to beat the living snot out of him.

And that fecking old woman who walks up and down with the "dead fetus" billboards. Right out side MacDonald’s and Burger King. I mean come on!! I am eating here!!

The only answer I can see is to ban religion in Grafton St. ... a bit extreme you might say, but if we let any form of religion survive then you will get nut cases ... to get rid of nut cases you must ban religion in any where I am … I want a religious free zone to extend 200 meters in a circle around me where ever I go in the city centre

Who is with me!!!!

Redleslie

Personally I believe that the Vatican's stance on AIDS and its stupid opposition to condoms is responsible for more death, misery and authoritarian patriarchical oppression throughout the world than these islamateurs could ever dream of. I applaud their Salman Rushdie fatwa though.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Wicknight
If one more Scientologist idiot asks me if I want a "personality test" I am going to beat the living snot out of him.

Nah, it's much more fun to get him to hang on a second while you check with your body thetans...

dahamsta

Originally posted by dathi1
Basically the whole purpose of this thread is to discuss the matter of this particular organisation.

I guess you shouldn't have used it to label people so, eh dathi1?

adam

dathi1

"The island of Ireland is in the grip of panic today as it has emerged that foreign cultural influences have introduced a totally alien concepts to the people of Ireland.

Aha haha hehhee hoho ha ha...ahem.. that was extremely funny. I suppose you find this particular group stance on State law and fatwah declarations in the same vain too...if so the jokes on you mate.

Before leaving to look up “irony” in a dictionary, the spokes person also called on the government to jail the so called "liberal brigade".

The "irony" is we dont know what the word terror means when you're dealing with this crowd.

I guess you shouldn't have used it to label people so, eh dathi1?

I don't think there is a rule against headline grabbing on this forum?

bonkey

Originally posted by dathi1
Just in case you want more from "multiculturalism"

Our friends from al mahajorun are holding a leaflet drop in Stephens green centre this Saturday and Jury's hotel in Jan to discuss the benefits of Jihad against the west and how 9/11 was great. Just what we need.

Well, I'd guess I'm generally considered one of the "liberal brigade", and I see nothing wrong with this.

I'm pretty sure we have laws in Ireland which allow the legal system to take action in cases of incitement to hatred, racism, religious persecution, incitement to violence etc.

If these people are suggesting that people be involved in any/all of the above, then they should be treated by the law exactly as it should those who incite hatred, violence, persecution, etc. against blacks, Muslims, etc. etc. etc.

Its more a question of equality than of liberty. Liberty decides what we permit. Equality ensures that we permit it equally from all.

It is the latter which is at fault here.

jc

sovtek

Originally posted by ReefBreak
I doubt any of that will happen. The Liberal Brigade will be too busy trying to "engage" this group with "dialogue" in an effort to "understand" and "respect their grievances" vis-a-vis their "cultural significance" in society.

Screw that...so I can get my name on a list and then get arrested when I go back to America and visit my family.

I like the Metallica idea...as long as it's from their anthology prior to the money grubbing, let's-fight-over our-rodies days.

Éomer of Rohan

Quoted from Daithi1
There's a whole load of stuff to debate here. Will there be a boycott against this group by lets say; Sein Fein, SWP, SP, ICTU, SIPTU as in the case with immigration control platform etc...

The immigration control platform was an idea that could all to easily have become government policy - it required a public boycott by the Socialist Party and the two trade unionist bodies, ICTU and SIPTU. Everyone knows these muslim extremists are nutcases and they are treated as such. I relish the day they come north of the border.

And of course we have ReefBreak taking through his ass.

Allow me to elucidate...

Quoted from ReefBreak
I doubt any of that will happen. The Liberal Brigade will be too busy trying to "engage" this group with "dialogue" in an effort to "understand" and "respect their grievances" vis-a-vis their "cultural significance" in society. Or something. In other words you'll get a bunch of former Arts Students playing touchy-feely politics and rambling on with meaningless soundbytes on the airwaves, when what should be done (IMHO) is that they should be arrested for promoting Hatred/Terrorism/Racism/Religious Intolerance, before being swiftly booted out of the country or thrown in the slammer.

This is quite simply crap; I am assuming for the purposes of this that you classify the 'Liberal Brigade' in the same fashion as Daithi1 since the above quote from yourself was a reply to Daithi1's comments which I too have quoted above. I speak for the SP.

We do not engage in dialogue with advocates of terrorism as a political tool; hence we steer well clear of Sinn Fein, the PUP &c in the North, given that there is no difference between any such groups, regardless of religion.

With regard to 'understanding' and 'respect,' how can one respect a group with religious conflictions, in our eyes a trivial distraction from the realities of the world? Moreover, how can one respect a group who want the death of people? To point out that someone has a point however is not respect or justification.

If this group is a threat to public security, they should be dealt with accordingly. If they are in breach of the peace, they should be dealt with just as anyone else would. They should not be thrown out of the country; we have not thrown out SF or the PUP regardless of how much we might like to and there is no difference.

mike65

The best response to these nutters is to go along to the meetting and leaflet drop them.



Mike.

dathi1

They should not be thrown out of the country; we have not thrown out SF or the PUP regardless of how much we might like to and there is no difference.

I think the comparison is over the top. This crowd have God on their side which unlike "isims" you cannot argue logically with. Even speaking like this about them can incite members to issue fatwahs against you.:ninja: So since you're an SP hack will you and "let them all in no matter what" Joe Higgins be boycotting this group in Jury's Hotel, January?

excellent Mike 65

Éomer of Rohan

LMAO Mike. Too right!

Quoted from Daithi1
I think the comparison is over the top. This crowd have God on their side which unlike "isims" you cannot argue logically with. Even speaking like this about them can incite members to issue fatwahs against you.

I don't. I think it is perfectly reasonable to assume that if the IRA had thought killing the cabinet with a Boeing would work, they would have done so; if the UVF / UDA had decided that a 747 into the Falls Road or, even the centre of Dublin would have had all catholics running for the hills, then hell, they'd probably have done that too. Remember this conflict is divided along religious lines up here, regardless of whether it's about drug money or not. The priests used to absolve the boys from their sins just as they were heading out the door with the rest of their ASU.

Quoted from Daithi1
So since you're an SP hack will you and "let them all in no matter what" Joe Higgins be boycotting this group in Jury's Hotel, January?

They are a non-entity. They do not require boycotting. As I understand it, there are many religious extremists who hang about on Grafton St.

Zombrex

Originally posted by dathi1
Aha haha hehhee hoho ha ha...ahem.. that was extremely funny. I suppose you find this particular group stance on State law and fatwah declarations in the same vain too...if so the jokes on you mate.

I find it just as stupid and illogical as the Catholic IRA trying to bomb the crap out of London, or the Protestant UVF blowing up Belfast. I find extreme Islam just as distasteful as I find extreme Christianity or Judaism. I find Islamic clerics preaching hatred against non-Islamics as shameful as the Catholic church protecting child rapists or refusing to help stop AIDS in Africa. I have no time for any extreme religious/terrorist groups, what ever religion or reason, or the party/group that represent them.

At the same time I no more lump all Catholics from the north or every Muslim from Dublin in the same boat. Violence and terrorism isn't anymore inherent in Islam than it is in Christianity. While the “War on Terror” is bombing the crap out of Islamic countries, western Christian anti-abortionist are blowing up clinics in America, shooting doctors from high power riffles. Is this a problem of multiculturalism as well? Should we stop all western Christians entering this country because they will infest our culture with their culture of hate and religious extremism?

Originally posted by dathi1
The "irony" is we dont know what the word terror means when you're dealing with this crowd.

Oh I think most people on this island know what religious extremism and terrorism means ... they don't need "multiculturalism" to know how terrorist work, they just need to look at the last 30 years.

Your idea that multiculturalism is introducing this stuff to Ireland is, give our particular history, laughable and naive in the extreme.

dathi1

At the same time I no more lump all Catholics from the north or every Muslim from Dublin in the same boat.

as I pointed out above too.

Your idea that multiculturalism is introducing this stuff to Ireland is, give our particular history, laughable and naive in the extreme.

No..its one aspect of a la carte immigration...the Multicultural stint was a take on neo liberals who espouse Multiculturalism at any cost. Our history doesn't compare to the dilemma which we now face between Zionists, American Christian Fundamentalists, PNAC and the likes of the above. A plague on all their houses.

Zombrex

Originally posted by dathi1
as I pointed out above too.
No..its one aspect of a la carte immigration.

It is not an aspect of immigration, it is an aspect of life. We had extremist religious groups in Ireland before anyone in Ireland could spell Muslim, and we have it now, both Christian and Muslim. We will have it in the future, with God knows what religion next. As long as there is religion and freedom you are going to get religious extremists. Unless you plan to police what people think, or ban all religions, pointing at Islam and saying "bad religion, stay away from us" is very hypocrital.

Originally posted by dathi1
Multicultural stint was a take on neo liberals who espouse Multiculturalism at any cost.

Liberals don't espouse multiculturalism at any cost, they just don't have any objects to it. They don't have such an irrational fear of it in the way you seem to. Why should 20 idiots handing out paper at the top of Grafton St taint every Muslim in Ireland? It is not a reflection on Islamic culture any more than the Omagh bombing is a reflection on Catholic culture.

You on the other hand seem to believe in blissful ignorance at any cost. You seem to preach that if we don't interact with other cultures then people of those cultures can't harm us. Well duh! If we don't go out of our house then we can't be hit by cars. Of course it means you can never see the sun again or breath fresh air, but at least you are safe.

dathi1

We had extremist religious groups in Ireland before anyone in Ireland could spell Muslim, and we have it now, both Christian and Muslim

Like al mahajorun.?..Did you see the Twin Towers stint on their page.? ...20? 1 is enough.

As long as there is religion and freedom you are going to get religious extremists.

well I feel a lot better now. How close is Selafeild by Ryan Air?

It is not a reflection on Islamic culture

I stresed this point earlier.

You seem to preach that if we don't interact with other cultures then people of those cultures can't harm us.

Now either you have the eye of allah..or I'm blind...where?

Well duh! If we don't go out of our house then we can't be hit by cars. Of course it means you can never see the sun again or breath fresh air, but at least you are safe.

has absolutely no bearing on the debate of allowing die at any cost for God groups like the above to freely preach their type of doctrine.

Zombrex

Originally posted by dathi1
Like al mahajorun.?..Did you see the Twin Towers stint on their page.? ...20? 1 is enough.

Yes like Al Mahajorun ... what you think the Real IRA are made up of bunnies and rabbits? I am pretty sure they would be flying planes into buildings if they though it would help their cause, they seem to have no problem with blowing up Spanish children.

Originally posted by dathi1
well I feel a lot better now. How close is Selafeild by Ryan Air?

So we should oppose multicultural religions because someone, from another culture, could fly a Irish plane into Sellafield? Ummm

Originally posted by dathi1
I stresed this point earlier. Now either you have the eye of allah..or I'm blind...where?

Well you post a thread saying that look at what "La Carte" multiculturalism has produced. I would assume from that you believe that if we didn't allow mulitculturalism this kind of stuff wouldn't happen, and we would all be safe. If that wasn't your point, please tell my why you keep mentioning multiculturalism and immgration.

Originally posted by dathi1
has absolutely no bearing on the debate of allowing die at any cost for God groups like the above to freely preach their type of doctrine.

Yes but that isn't the debate you started ... allow me to quote -

For the Liberal Brigade
Just in case you want more from "multiculturalism"
its one aspect of a la carte immigration
Multicultural stint was a take on neo liberals who espouse Multiculturalism at any cost


You are blaming multiculturalism and immigration for this, are you not?

mr_angry

Ok Wicknight. I think you're taking dathai just a bit out of context there. The man is just saying that these groups should be treated properly under the laws we already have in this country about incitement to hatred, etc. Its clear to me that these people (not Muslims, or foreigners in general - just these people) are dangerous, and "leaving them to do there own thing" would be relatively unwise.

Zombrex

Originally posted by mr_angry
Ok Wicknight. I think you're taking dathai just a bit out of context there. The man is just saying that these groups should be treated properly under the laws we already have in this country about incitement to hatred, etc.

No one is arguing with that, and I don't think anyone is supporting this group in any way shape or form. dathai called on people to boycott the group, but as
Éomer of Rohan said it is a non-event, no need to boycott it anymore than you need to boycott the other loonies on Grafton St. If this group breaks the law, then they should be dealt with properly, just like any other group on this island.

What dathai did do though was blame multiculturalism, "la carte" immigration and the general left, for groups like this, which is what I responded to.

This is not a problem of multiculturalism

Typedef

I support multiculturalism.

I think in the Darwinian sense, multiculturalism (or rather an amalgim of cultures, in one nation), is rather like, biodiversity or even genetic diversity in a gene pool.

It would be, bad, if Ireland got mired in the past, and became, xenophobic.

Again, I don't accept that being anti-EU federalism, implies xenophobia, though, apparently according to the pros, anti-Federalists have been known to eat babies.

Jocularity aside. The very real, but, under-reported energy crisis facing petroleum based Western economies, implies that the Western world has developed an interest in the Middle East (where all the oil is), largely people in this region are Muslims.

Ergo, in order to diminsh the people in these areas, demonise them and thus make it socially acceptable to subjectgate those people (if necessary) or prop up corrupt regiemes (no comparison to Western regiemes intended in this case), it becomes necessary to paint the Muslim faith (since racism is not in vogue anymore) as a faith, which leads people to violent madness and thus, is a faith which the Wests 'crusade' against 'evil' and 'terrorism' should encompass.

Obviously this accomplishes the task of annexing Oil reserves to the benefit of the US and it's allies.

This is the same great game of Imperialism that has been played for all of human history, a few nut jobs, who happen to be Muslims, hardly justifies Western actions in the Middle East (ongoing and future).

Similarly just because it would be 'easy' and 'comforting' to believe the propaganda about the West being 'free', the realities of Western foreign policies just don't stack up with these concepts, under even the most cursory objective analysis.

In any case, people in the Middle East (ostensibly Muslim) are aggrieved by Western Imperialism and seek to redress this through violent action.

Since Ireland is not a very powerful nation (though it would be an economic disaster for Ireland to be seriously contiminated or elsewise), it is much more likely that the UK and US will be the targets of Middle Eastern violent action to redress the imbalance of power, or as some might term said action 'terrorism'.

These are the realities of the world we live in and while not pretty, I think it would be a waste of time to debate the 'merits' of the propaganda-prole feed with which the media pumps into our minds ad nausea.

This is a matter of people resisting Imperialism, people who, if they had the power, would most certainly be Imperialsts themselves, since power corrupts.

The problem with the populations of the Western World is that we have seen too many films with HollyWood endings and allow ourselves to be fooled that the world 'really' does operate this way.

Weapons of Mass Destruction my arse, nobody, who wasn't totally nieve believed 'seriously' that Iraq and any kind of WMD, since attacking it would have been much too risky for American allies in the region, notably Saudi, Kuwait and of course Israel.

To turn around and say we should not allow Muslims into Ireland, or to even skirt around saying it, is nuts.
Ireland is not a real target. Perhaps, crashing a plane into Intel's fab plant, would cause some serious worries for the world, for the six months it would take to make another, but, the notion of people targeting Ireland through Sellafield is nuts. Targeting Britain, through Sellafield is possible, but, I would think that asassination attempts against the Prime Minister and it's like are much more likely.

Killing hundreds of thousands of people would only lead to the likes of the UK and the US, deploying Nuclear Weapons.

Fielding of such weapons was seriously considered post 9/11, so most 'terrorists' with the intelligence to pull off such a stunt would be quite aware that the power bloc it attacks would most likely retaliate with Nuclear weapons.

Ergo attacks like 9/11 on civilians are likey, but, attacks against Nuclear facilities are not, more to the point.

A multicultural society is much more likely to detract from the Demonisation of 'Muslims' or group(x), due to a higher amount of tolerance to quilocialisms of other people arising from culutral diversity, leading us, in the West to be a little less likely to spew up some garbage about brining "Western Values" to the "Muslim savage" and just be bare faced about our intentions and say.

"We're going to piss all over the Middle East, because it suits our economic interests... now stop bleating about it and go join the army.... we need cannon fodder".

/

dathi1

In any case, people in the Middle East (ostensibly Muslim) are aggrieved by Western Imperialism and seek to redress this violent action.

Now this looks like a long excuse for Islamic religious fundamentalists to propagate here because they are no threat to Ireland? As I said in previous posts we don't want any part in imperialist and neo religious wars whether via Shannon with the yanks on behalf of Zionism or groups such as Algerian FIS or Al Mahajorun patronising us as to how anti imperial we are and then setting up base here. The lame excuses about our "terror" history here above, makes no excuse for new hyper world terror for Allah groups to set up here. Our walk in and claim asylum system with free legal aid is a part of the problem also. The Socialist Party member above reckons that they are a non event....In Muslim Turkey they wouldn't have a hope of leafleting the pubic. They know the consequences of such naivety expressed above.

Meh

Originally posted by Typedef
Since Ireland is not a very powerful nation (though it would be an economic disaster for Ireland to be seriously contiminated or elsewise), it is much more likely that the UK and US will be the targets of Middle Eastern violent action to redress the imbalance of power, or as some might term said action 'terrorism'.
...
Ireland is not a real target.

What makes you think that Islamic terrorists wouldn't attack UK/US/Israeli targets inside Ireland (like they did in Kenya, Saudi Arabia, Tanzania and most recently Turkey)?

Typedef

Again.

I think the entire anti-Jihad rallying cry, is an easy tool, with which to demonise a section of humanity, and thus make it easy subjectgate them.

In reality, unless one incites to violence (and and prove this in a court of law) towards other people, one has comitted no crime and I think that curtailing immigration on this basis would be putting the cart before the horse.

Blithely "Jihad" this as an excuse to 'clamp down' on immigration is spurious in my opinion, since the real end to this is to end multiculturalism.

Sort of like using September 11 as an excuse to enunciate the Patriot act and then abuse that act, by putting it to use outside of the areas of terrorism aversion, cracking down an asylum seekers and immigrants to prevent "Islamic terrorists", is simply an in-vogue excuse to accomplish an end.... namely stoping the supposed "carte blanche" immigration into this country.

Typedef

Originally posted by Meh
What makes you think that Islamic terrorists wouldn't attack UK/US/Israeli targets inside Ireland (like they did in Kenya, Saudi Arabia, Tanzania and most recently Turkey)?

Turkey is a military allay of the US and UK and has a history of Imperialism, attacking British or American interests in Ireland, would be akin to attacking a McDonalds, in Canada. Why do that, when you can bomb Washington?

That makes no sense.

Meh

Originally posted by Typedef
In reality, unless one incites to violence (and and prove this in a court of law) other people, one has comitted no crime.

No, the Prohibition of Incitement to Hatred Act makes it an offence to stir up hatred against any group, even if you stop short of directly inciting violence.

Sort of like using September 11 as an excuse to enunciate the Patriot act and then abuse that act, by putting it to use outside of the areas of terrorism aversion, cracking down an asylum seekers and immigrants to prevent "Islamic terrorists", is simply an in-vogue excuse to accomplish an end.... namely stoping the supposed "carte blanche" immigration into this country.

Undoubtedly it is for some people. But that does not mean we should ignore the threat of Islamist extremism. Just because Paisley's opposition to the IRA is based on sectarian bigotry doesn't mean that we should ignore the IRA threat.

attacking British or American interests in Ireland, would be akin to attacking a McDonalds, in Canada.

Incorrect, McDonalds restaurants are locally owned franchises, whereas the US embassy in Ireland is directly controlled by the US government.

Why do that, when you can bomb Washington?

Because it's a softer target?

Typedef

Yes but, a British or American embassy in Ireland is of almost no strategic importance to an Islamic 'terrorists'. For one, Ireland has no real military importance, unlike Turkey.

Ok, by coincidence the Irish and British have a checkered past and so an attack against a Britsh embassay in Ireland would be a disaster, but, in that single instance alone, for British-Irish relations.

The attack in Turkey was also a message, to Islamic countries about the retaliation they should expect for participating with Anglo-American Imperialsm, which is again pertinent since Turkey has interests in effectively annexing the Northern part of Iraq.

In comparison, Ireland, is very low down indeed on the possible list of targets.

Meh

Originally posted by Typedef
Yes but, a British or American embassy in Ireland is of almost no strategic importance to an Islamic 'terrorists'. For one, Ireland has no real military importance, unlike Turkey.

But exactly like Kenya, or Tanzania

The attack in Turkey was also a message, to Islamic countries about the retaliation they should expect for participating with Anglo-American Imperialsm, which is again pertinent since Turkey has interests in effectively annexing the Northern part of Iraq.

How did Indonesia or Kenya cooperate with the US military against Islam? In any case, aren't there thousands of US soldiers passing through Shannon on their way to Iraq every month?

In comparison, Ireland, is very low down indeed on the possible list of targets.

Yes, I'm sure the Balinese were telling themselves that a few years ago...

sovtek

Originally posted by Meh
But exactly like Kenya, or TanzaniaHow did Indonesia or Kenya cooperate with the US military against Islam? In any case, aren't there thousands of US soldiers passing through Shannon on their way to Iraq every month? Yes, I'm sure the Balinese were telling themselves that a few years ago...

Kenya was more than likely convenience. They have Muslim historical connection as well as population, as with Tanzania. I wouldn't be surprised should some bombings take place in South Africa (well some small ones have already, Planet Hollywood in '98), and have expected it for years.
I guess you aren't aware of Suharto and America's long military history with Indonesia. Besides the fact that Indonesia jumped at the chance to be an "ally" in the "war on terror".
Is Ireland possibly open to attacks, maybe...but then I'm sure there are possible targets in Lichtenstein (spelling?)
On topic I'd say that this group should be considered if they are breaking the law. On the other hand it has nothing to do with immigration.

mr_angry

I think Typedef has totally altered the issue here - we're not talking about keeping out all Muslims because we're afraid of a select few. We're talking about protesting against a bunch of crazies who dirctly link themselves with terrorism, and actively support it. If you want to talk about the dehumanisation of Muslims in general, do so in another thread.

Victor

Originally posted by Redleslie
Personally I believe that the Vatican's stance on AIDS and its stupid opposition to condoms is responsible for more death, misery and authoritarian patriarchical oppression throughout the world than these islamateurs could ever dream of.

Hang on the vatican preaches celibacy before marriage, fidelity in it, the use of condoms to prevent disease, the care of the ill and poor and children .... which sounds awfully like the WHO stance.

Originally posted by Redleslie
I applaud their Salman Rushdie fatwa though.

The Vatican did not issue this.

daveirl

This post has been deleted.

Zombrex

Originally posted by mr_angry
I think Typedef has totally altered the issue here - we're not talking about keeping out all Muslims because we're afraid of a select few.

Dathi's orginal post started -

For the Liberal Brigade
Just in case you want more from "multiculturalism"

Multiculturalism causing/not-causing a rise in these extreme Muslim groups in Ireland seems to be what a lot of people are discussing.

I don't think anyone is objecting to protesting against this group .. in fact if I was in Dublin I would probably put on my Atheist hat and go along for the laugh

("So you can't eat Pork. What about Bacon? Not even Ham?")

Victor

Originally posted by daveirl
No they don't. Come on Victor you are usually more accurate than this. The Vatican is one of the most ardent critics of condoms.

Whatever about the church in Kenya, the Vatican has said that it is permissable to use condoms to prevent the spread of AIDS. The problem for the church arises when people interpret this as carte blanche to, eh, fornicate. The church does not want to reduce the threshold to a point where people think "I'm using a condom, so it's safe". People mistake safe for safer.

Sex and the Holy City includes a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choirmaster against using condoms with his wife because "the virus can pass through".

This may or may not be out of context. Is it "a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choirmaster against using condoms with his wife - but have sex anyway" or "a Catholic nun advising her HIV-infected choirmaster against using condoms with his wife because there is a risk of transmission anyway and they should abstain from sex".

Originally posted by dathi1
www.almuk.com/obm/events.html

Yeah, Brits out of Ireland (note the mobile number is British not Irish). :rolleyes:

Éomer of Rohan

Quoted from Wicknight
I don't think anyone is objecting to protesting against this group .. in fact if I was in Dublin I would probably put on my Atheist hat and go along for the laugh

While I think that protesting against them is exactly what they would want us to do, the attitude of Wicknight himself exactly reflects my own; hell, in the Students Union today, the Christian Union got themselves taken apart because I was in a bad mood and their 'Officer in Charge of Evangelism' dared to try to pass me a leaflet

Redleslie

Originally posted by Victor
Hang on the vatican preaches celibacy before marriage, fidelity in it, the use of condoms to prevent disease, the care of the ill and poor and children .... which sounds awfully like the WHO stance.

Hmm, can't find any specific mention of the Vatican advocating the use of condoms to prevent AIDS. From Vatican site. "Morever, in order to coordinate better its activities the Holy See has established an Ad Hoc Committee on the fight against HIV/AIDS. The Committee intends to express particular solicitude for sub-Saharan Africa, where the suffering is most acute, and to pay special attention to the problems of stigma and discrimination accompanying the disease, to access to treatment and care, to education on responsible sexual behavior — including abstinence and marital fidelity — and to the care of HIV/AIDS orphans. With these new initiatives, the Holy See intends to strengthen further its commitment and augment its contribution to the global fight against HIV/AIDS, as it reaffirms its belief in the value and sacredness of every human life."

The church instead claims that condoms cause promiscuity which results in the spread of AIDS. They've got it completely arseways. They've also been putting out a lot of disinformation about AIDS, rubbish like the virus is small enough to pass through condoms. This kind of stupidity and ignorance is killing people by the million. It's a bit more serious than a few muslims doing a leaflet drop.

The Vatican did not issue this.

I meant the fatwa listed on that islamateur site. Should've been clearer I guess.

Typedef

Protest against religous crazies if that is your thing.

However if we are to begin discouting ethnic groups or religous groups from our country based on some fringe loonies associated with said ethnicity/group, then I suggest we begin by deporting all the Catholics and then move on to the Protestants.

In fact, you might end up with a few tens of thousands fence sitting agnostics left in the country, as us athiests tend to be a bit, entrenched in our self-righteousness.

Redleslie

Originally posted by Typedef

However if we are to begin discouting ethnic groups or religous groups from our country based on some fringe loonies associated with said ethnicity/group, then I suggest we begin by deporting all the Catholics and then move on to the Protestants.

I fundamentally agree except I think we should do the protestants first, then the catholics. So right away, we have an ideological split and another excuse to have a fight. Excellent.