Request for a Legal Board

Hobart

I would like to request a board which would cover and answer questions regarding the law. Threads like this and this and this prompted me to request this. .There are also some threads in humanities which could benifit from informed discussion regarding similar experiences.

At present questions are being answered in the forums where they are are asked. This proposed forum would centralise these issues and people who have had similar experiences could relate their own experience.

Now Dev I can already hear you saying "Nobody shall give anybody legal advice here on boards." And I agree. But the fact of the matter is that questions regarding peoples lawful rights are and do come up in various forae (sp?).

I myself will be in the high court in Janurary, and I have benifited from the Gardai, and various other agencies, being pro-active and informative in regards of what one should expect when attending a place like the High Court.

Anyhow whadda ye think??

Victor

I think what you are looking for is a "rights" board. We would need someone like www.flac.ie onboard as there are few enough experienced / willing lawyers here (there are law students and other professionals that have done law alright).

Dustaz

Originally posted by Hobart

I myself will be in the high court in Janurary,

What did you do?

Hobart

Have a look at this post Dusty. Should explain the situ.

Hobart

Originally posted by Victor
I think what you are looking for is a "rights" board. We would need someone like www.flac.ie onboard as there are few enough experienced / willing lawyers here (there are law students and other professionals that have done law alright).

Yea Victor, although that looks like a bit OTT for Boards. However the premise would be similiar. With emphasis on experience as opposed to outright legal advice.

Dustaz

Originally posted by Hobart
Have a look at this post Dusty. Should explain the situ.

You have my deepest sympathies, I cant imagine what that must be like. I Sincerly hope that the court case goes well for you. Pity there isnt sentancing-in-kind.

vinnyfitz

Seems like a good idea to give it a try - particularly if it were called rights/legal or something like that.

If it did prove lacking in expertise maybe its mods could even encourage organisations like FLAC, the Ombudsman, Director of Consumer Affairs, Equality Authority etc... to drop in informally from time to time.

V

Sangre

As a student of the law (suprised me too), this gets my vote.

miju

If it's given approval I can personally promise my girlfriend shall visit this thread everyday to issue advice.

She works in the eqaulity authority and has done for the last two years she's always saying "this is against such and such...." anyway point being she knows her eqaulity stuff and would be perfectly qaulified IMHO to dispense information on eqaulity rights

personally I think this board should be given a trial run and see how its goes altough I reckon any potential mod is gonna have to pretty quick off the mark if anything potentially libelous against Boards appears

actually now that i think about it I dunno about this forum could be a bit of double edged sword

Redshift

Actually it's not a bad idea IMO another site digital forums has such a forum in which the mod is a lawyer, it's quite busy and popular.

woosaysdan

yeah i like the idea

beardedchicken

i think that would be an excellent idea, especially from the equality/ consumer rights side of things.
at the moment, my particular axe to grind is bouncers - i find that lately, many bouncers have become a law unto themselves in their eyes at least. the last few bouncers i've come in contact with have been exactly like this, trying to lay down the law, and when their "authority" is challenged in any way, become unreasonable and belligerent, so knowing that the law is on your side would be great from my point of view.

DeVore

We'd have to be careful about giving out advice... what if it turns out to be poor legal advice?

I need a lawyer to consult about my free legal aid board (oh the ironing is crunchy-nut today!)

I'll have a word with FLAC or our legal people and see if they would jump at it.

DeV.

miju

just a suggestion but would an idea be to put seperate forums in the commercial section say

Eqaulity Authority / ODEI
Legal Aid Board etc etc that way if you go to one of these forums you know for sure the advice that you would be getting from the rep would be accurate

RainyDay

The great thing about a discussion board forum is that, provided you have critical mass of contributons, any misinformation from one contributor is very likely to be corrected by other contributors. This the whole basis on which Askaboutmoney.com has operated in a highly regulated area (i.e. financial advice) for over four years now. We get frequent queries on legal issues on AAM too - It would be great if there was a legal forum here with critical mass of skilled contributors.

DeVore

Thats a good point but I'd want the two mods to NOT be lawyers (so it cant be claimed they gave advice on behalf of Boards) and also to identify people who have qualifications in legal aid so their voice is stronger then others.

Not a bad point though Rainy, good way to think about it.

DeV.

Crash

It would be interesting (if it were possible) to implement a user rating system on that board only. whereby the mods could assess how useful/correct the poster was and give em a rating so as others can see if they're talking to someone who enjoys the words that come out of his ass or someone who actually knows what they're talking about.

You could always put a giant disclaimer at the top saying "you cant sue boards if you get sent to prison for stabbing old ladies because we told you that pleading guilty was the best option" type thing.

Sangre

This would have to be heavily modded because basically if the person giving advice has special knowledge of the topic i.e, is a lawyer, then if that advice is misinformed or incorrect, then the person who relied on it can sue

So there would have to be serious disclaimers on the forum.
I think the best way for this forum to work is more of a 'what is the law for yadda yadda?' then any advice no matter how seemingly frivolous.

Nike_Dude

I think the best way for this forum to work is more of a 'what is the law for yadda yadda?' then any advice no matter how seemingly frivolous

Yeah good idea and for people who wanted to use it to realise it was only advice and not a binding opinon from a solicitor

Crash

Actually it'd be handy to find someone who has a good grasp of the law concerning libel specifically to keep an eye on the board and use the "report to moderator function"

DeVore

Any indication that we have pre-moderated the content DEFINITELY makes us responsible for the consequences of heeding that advice... This is one for the lawyers to figure out, I'll ask them in to look into it.

FLAC is different because
a. they are lawyers or have access to free legal ad themselves.
b. its their remit so they view the downside as being something they are out to rectify in society anyway...

DeV.

vinnyfitz

DeV I think you are absolutely right to reflect on the legals on this one but the idea is a good one imho so I hope it does not become too much trouble to implement.

Already people are giving each other lots of informal, take it at face value, on the one hand and on the other hand, advice here. A your Rights board ought not pretend it is doing more than providing a particular space for that. A space where we can be more focused and we can build up some expertise.

I think the forum charter and moderartion can be pretty blunt about "no specific cases should be discussed here nor can specific case advice can be given here" "Naming and making allegations about 3rd parties leads to immediate banning etc" ...

I see two potential very useful roles for this forum:

1. Frequently asked questions will be dealt with in a way that will interest and help plenty of posters (same as many other forums here already without too much legal stress) and

2. Several "rights focussed" organisations (some state sponsored like Consumer affairs and the Equality Authority and some voluntary/not for profit NGOs) could get a first sight of how useful an on-line advice centre/forum can be. They might practice, chipping in here and spotting trends and FAQs and hey! maybe even set up services on their own sites in the longer term.

V

Sangre

Thats some great advice from my cousin Vinny.

Victor

Originally posted by Sangre
This would have to be heavily modded because basically if the person giving advice has special knowledge of the topic i.e, is a lawyer, then if that advice is misinformed or incorrect, then the person who relied on it can sue

then for mods what you want is non-lawyers, preferably a law student (theory) and someone who has practical experience of day-to-day law (practice) that has done some law (e.g. in a business course).

Sangre

I just thinking about this the other day and I think the best thing for this forum is to centre it around a 'stepping stone' concept, where people could try and find out the law before going onto professional legal advice. There would be no advice giver per se, merely the stating of law/penalties/offences etc, or to get really into it, the stating of previous cases on the points of law, but there should be no, I *think* you should do this except, and only except, when you're saying, i *think* this is the time to get legal advice.

Oh btw Victor, im fairly certain a law student falls under the 'special knowledge' category.

Victor

Originally posted by Sangre
Oh btw Victor, im fairly certain a law student falls under the 'special knowledge' category.

No, they are students, they are not qualified - would you have one defend you in the high court?

Hobart

When you gets advice on PI. You do not automatically assume you are conversing with a qualified counciller. Sam with advice on the motors board, one does not assume that one is talking to a mechanic. Advice is advice, and is mostly garnered through experience. What people do with that advice is their own business. Caveat Emptour(sp?) should apply in all cases. This should apply to this (proposed) board.

Imposter

I think it would be good at keeping things like the "My landlord kept my deposit, what do I do, where can I go?" thread in accomodation and the "I stole stuff from my workplace and got caught" threadin PI together. I think anyone who has a serious problem should be just pointed towards proper legal advice similar to PI and go to a doctor type advice.

I agree that there'd be enough traffic to put down any stupid advice and people would have to realise that it's advice and nothing definite.

Would the consumer rights side of things not overlap too much with boards that exist already, like the examples I mention above for example?

spongebob

I think the existing Boards are fine. The questions, discussions and advice are well targeted to the sector

Accomodation = Landlord/Tenant stuff
Biz Econ = Financial Stuff and Consumer stuff (some of it)
Ripoff Ireland = Consumer stuff (some of it)
Politics = (some Constitutional stuff)
After Hours = ......... can I sue the person who made my twinky turn green ?
ICDG = Content Delivery law
IrelandOffline = Telecoms Regulation (lack of more like) a specialised form of consumer law.
Web Hosting = What IS libel , can it be scripted , is a pop under worse than a pop over?
Admin/Feedback = Frequent heads up on the publishing aspect of Boards....for th ebenefit of all including Mods.

A legal Board would have the legal anoraks discussing nuances in the law rather than dispersing the information widely as at present, that would be Ghettoisation and I am DEAD against it I must say.

M

vinnyfitz

A legal Board would have the legal anoraks discussing nuances in the law rather than dispersing the information widely as at present, that would be Ghettoisation and I am DEAD against it I must say.

Yeah i was wondering about that too and if that was how it turned out I also would not be adding it to my subscribed list - to say the least.
But that's why i think it should be called a "your rights" board instead of "legal".

I think the existing Boards are fine. The questions, discussions and advice are well targeted to the sector

2 points here - firstly some rights issues are well covered by topic specific boards some are not.
Secondly, not all users know their way around the Boards as well as you do Muck and may not realise there is a forum full of expertise on their new dilemma. In certain cases Mods might well move queries to the relevant expert Board.

Anyway I say give it a try! If it becomes a haven for legal anoraks we can just move it and stick it under games rather than society.

spongebob

Originally posted by vinnyfitz
In certain cases Mods might well move queries to the relevant expert Board.

Most Mods in fairness. A quick PM to the rest would sort it nicely.

It is also fair to point out that legal expertise can be very sectorised and that advice on Accomodation issues (just an example) is often gained at the coal face.

Finally there are non-formal legal solutions to Accomodation problems. Apart from legal advice and consult a lawyer stuff there is Threshold and MABS and Planning Departments and all sorts of remedies. There are also cases where the Local Authority may be invoked as a registrant of landlords. Therefore not all legal issues to do with Accomodation can be resolved through formal legal channels nor should they. The Small Claims Court is a wonderful thing

My instinct is that the curent setup works very well and adds an extra dimension to the respective Boards. While accomodation was meant for property lets and shares and stuff it is also a good advice channel when landlor/tenant relationships go pear shaped.

Anyway I say give it a try! If it becomes a haven for legal anoraks we can just move it and stick it under games rather than society.

Don't encourage them I say. Ever!

M

spongebob

Originally posted by crash_000
It would be interesting (if it were possible) to implement a user rating system on that board only.

Thats anudder thing.

The famous 'karma' feature should be Board specific when it comes in.

JackoMickey may be a 5* on a For Sale Board and a minus rating in the personal Issues Board at the same time. The Humour Board should be a Karma feature free zone

It may wreck yer head Dev but Lawyers wreck yer pockets ....which is worse IMO

M

Sangre

Originally posted by Hobart
When you gets advice on PI. You do not automatically assume you are conversing with a qualified counciller. Sam with advice on the motors board, one does not assume that one is talking to a mechanic. Advice is advice, and is mostly garnered through experience. What people do with that advice is their own business. Caveat Emptour(sp?) should apply in all cases. This should apply to this (proposed) board.

One does not assume, one may know that a certain poster is a lawyer, although I cant say speak for online issue in a real life situation a lawyer can not give out friendly adive because he is liable. Of course this is an extreme situation and will most likely never happen, but why put boards.ie and the Admins in a posistion they don't have to be.

Hobart

Originally posted by Sangre
One does not assume, one may know that a certain poster is a lawyer, although I cant say speak for online issue in a real life situation a lawyer can not give out friendly adive because he is liable. Of course this is an extreme situation and will most likely never happen, but why put boards.ie and the Admins in a posistion they don't have to be.

If you look at the original request I have linked to some examples of where this board would be handy. The fact that "legal/advisory" topics are currently spread throught boards, at the moment, puts less control on what advice is given. The fact is these requests/questions are already coming up. If there is an issue the fact the new board does/does-not exist will have no bearing on your example above.

sceptre

Originally posted by Sangre
Oh btw Victor, im fairly certain a law student falls under the 'special knowledge' category.

Nope, at least not from the point of view of "can't serve on /*(read as "can get automatically out of...")*/ a jury"

I don't know how many practising barristers/solicitors we have on boards (or even if we have any). There are of course a few "did law, thinks lawyers are evil corrupters of the law, wouldn't touch professional law with a bargepole" (and in my case, buggered off and started degree number 2 in something else) types though. If they're not practising they're not personally liable (as opposed to boards being liable) as long as they don't misrepresent themselves. IANAL can go a long way.

Nike_Dude

Nope, at least not from the point of view of "can't serve on /*(read as "can get automatically out of...")*/ a jury"

Law students are not specifically mentioned as being exempted but all you have to do is say " I'm a law student and I feel that my greater knowledge on the law would influence the other jury members into following my way of thinking". Say this and you will be allowed to head off no questions asked;)
I still think a board of this type would be good as a sort of general advice board for people rather than a place where practising solicitors or barristers answered all the questions

Hobart

Any news/decision on this?

ecksor

I didn't decide on this because I'd only looked back through the previous month's threads. We'll have to think about this one.