How I got Ripped Off By Bowie Ticket Tout

Thargy

I've been a Bowie fan ever since I was a kid, so couldn't wait to get to his concert last Saturday.

Only snag was I couldn't get tickets when they first went on sale...sold out in minutes.

Decided to go down to the point anyhow and buy off whoever was selling.

Yes, I know, you take a risk when buying from ticket touts, but I had to be at this concert..... so it was a risk I had to take.

Plenty of guys hanin' around offerring tickets at inflated prices (face value 61 euro for a seated ticket...demanding 150 euro!).

Finally settled on two seated tickets for 250 euro. Expensive...but had to do it.

Before handing over the dosh I made the tout come up to the event security guys who were checking tickets at the front door. Asked him to OK the tickets. They said they were good, so I handed over the money and entered the venue.

Went for a swift pint at one of the bars before making our way to our seats.

As we passed into the block where we were to sit, a staff member asked us to wait on one side. She said there was 'a problem with the tickets' and she would call a manager.
This self important management dweeb in a suit came over and informed us our tickets were invalid and that we were being thrown out!
I asked why they were invalid. He told me they were part of a bunch of tickets that had been posted out to 'members' but had been 'intercepted in the post' (his words) and had been reported 'missing' by the 'members'. The Point had re-issued these tickets to the 'members' and the tickets we had bought were 'invalid'.

I pointed out that we had asked the security people on the door if the tickets were good before we bought them, and been told YES they were OK. And we were also admitted to the premises with these tickets. I asked how we could be allowed into the premises with 'invalid' tickets. I pointed out that their action of approving the validity of the tickets at the front door...and admitting us...constituted a comittment by the Point to honour the tickets they had issued. I also pointed out that if they knew these tickets were suspect they could have supplied the seat numbers to their door staff, and saved me 250 euro by refusing to honour them before I paid for them.

To cut a long story short...the dweeb was smirkingly unmoved..and refused to even allow us to stand and watch the concert. I told him I wouldn't leave voluntarily, and asked for a Garda witness. We were then marched to the front door where I made a statement to a Gard (who was very decent about the whole situation, but couldn't do much to change dweebo's attitude).

I'm planning to take the Point to the small claims court for breach of contract...I hope to at least recover the face value of the tickets...I'm not sure how succesful I'll be, but I can't let them get away with such cold hearted and ignorant behaviour.

As it happens I got to see the concert anyhow (I'll leave that story for another day) but I consider The Point management to be a right shower of b**t'rds and look forward to my day in court.

You have now been warned!

Winters

Originally posted by Thargy
I'm planning to take the Point to the small claims court for breach of contract...I hope to at least recover the face value of the tickets...I'm not sure how succesful I'll be, but I can't let them get away with such cold hearted and ignorant behaviour

But you never had a contract with The Point [or Ticketmaster] as you never purchased the ticked from them. Thing is you bought the tickets off a tout and therefor dont have a arse to sit on. If they were bought legit then you would have a contract with Ticketmaster/The Point and then would be able to take 'em to court. All you can do is complain they they let you on then kicked you off. Plead ignorance.

Thargy

The tickets were not forgeries.
The tickets were valid Point Depot issued items.
There is nothing on the tickets to say they are 'not transferrable'.
Purchasing tickets off a third party is not illegal.
Having a third party (e.g a family member) buy you a ticket is not illegal.
The tickets were vetted and approved by agents of the Point Depot before purchase from the 3rd party.
They were accepted by the Point Depot agents for admittance to the venue.
The Point Depot manager subsequently admitted being aware of their own duplication of these tickets.
They had the duplicated seat reference numbers available.
They did not pass those details to their door staff.
They were offerred a compromise arrangement to settle (i.e. standing admittance).
They refused that compromise and accused me of being in receipt of stolen goods!

If I had purchased these tickets 'blind' without any reference to the point staff I wouldn't have a leg to stand on. However that is not what happened. I asked the Point Depot to vet the tickets, and they approved them. They also admitted me.

If you think I have no rights in this case, what would you say if your brother bought a ticket for you and you were subsequently thrown out on the grounds that you didn't buy the ticket yourself? Would that be OK by you?

Bollox.

lodgepole

I think you have a very good chance of recouping the value of the ticket (but certainly not the €250), based on the fact that you were admitted to the venue. Having the Garda present helps you too.

Good luck with it.

af666x

That is f*cking heartless. I'd say you'll have a good chance of getting something back anyway. Good luck and let us know how you get on.

eth0_

Originally posted by Thargy
The tickets were not forgeries.
The tickets were valid Point Depot issued items.
There is nothing on the tickets to say they are 'not transferrable'.
Purchasing tickets off a third party is not illegal..

I feel really sorry for you but the point are in the right, although their security guards are seriously ill informed if they KNEW there were stolen tickets in use that night.
A> It's illegal to sell on concert tickets, i'm not sure if it's just tickets that are sold on for profit, think it might be
B>The tickets were stolen! That means they had every right to turf you out

Again, I feel really sorry for you but you can't trust touts as far as you can throw the bastards. The gardai should be arresting the bastards outside concert venues IMO.

Thargy

eth0_, You made two points there, let me address them.

A> It's illegal to sell on concert tickets, i'm not sure if it's just tickets that are sold on for profit, think it might be

Totally WRONG. I actually asked the Gard to whom I made the report...is it illegal for people to sell tickets? He said 'NO'. He also added that the only thing 'wrong' in selling on tickets is that you are meant to have a Casual Traders licence. Not having one would expose you to a fine of 100 euro. Thats all. And lets face it...people go to these shows and try to sell on tickets that they legitimately bought but now don't need. The Gards probably do not want to be heavy handed by prosecuting every 'offender' including innocent people who just want rid of tickets. As I said in my last post...there is nothing on the tickets saying they cannot be sold on (transferred)...just look at the number of tickets continually on sale in Buy and Sell. If all those people are acting illegally (no Casual Trader Licence) then Buy and Sell is going out of business soon.

B>The tickets were stolen! That means they had every right to turf you out

I repeat, I presented the tickets to the SECURITY people at the front door before purchasing them. If they were stolen goods why did they not tell me so before I bought them, and why did they admit me to the premises? If I had bought 'Standing Only' tickets they would not have been able to subsequently eject us because we'd have been lost in a massive crowd. We were easily identified for ejection...because they already knew the 'duplicated' seat numbers. They should have had that list at the front door, with their security personnel.
Incidentally, I was told the tickets were 'intercepted'. A funny word to use. Not 'stolen' but 'intercepted'. Why the qualification? Perhaps the tickets were not in fact 'stolen' at all. One could think up all sorts of neat scams the Point depot could be running here. Use your imagination.

At the end of the day it'll be the judge who decides the right and wrong of this case, and discussing the pro's and con's here is useful as it arms me with the likely excuses and arguments the Point will use. I reckon I can argue a very good case for a refund.

To all those who've expressed support, Thank You. I'll let you know what happens (though it may take months).

Thargy

One other thing.

They told us our tickets were duplicated (by themselves).
They stated I had the 'original' tickets simply by looking at the seat number on the ticket.
I was never asked for ID, and I always had the tickets in my hand...they never scrutinised the tiny ticket serial numbers.
So how did they know I had the original ('cancelled') ones?
How did they know I wasn't the valid owner unless they asked for my ID?
Where was the 'other guy' with the 'duplicates'? He wasn't in the seats when we went to them! There was no 'dispute' with another 'valid' ticket holder.
Where was he?

I smell a rat.

NIBBS

It is illegal to sell tickets over their face value, always has been, if there weren't problems with it these guys would set up little huts to sell the tickets...............

If you buy tickets from a tout and have any subsequent problems it's your own fault for buying them in the first place.....

dudara

Incidentally, I was told the tickets were 'intercepted'. A funny word to use. Not 'stolen' but 'intercepted'. Why the qualification? Perhaps the tickets were not in fact 'stolen' at all. One could think up all sorts of neat scams the Point depot could be running here. Use your imagination.

it's an interesting story and I can see both sides. But the Point staff did initially let you onto the premises, and the quote mentioned above seems odd. I had been reading the post and thought to myself, "why were you not asked for ID to see if you were the correct owners of the tickets", but then you answered that question in another post.

Keep us informed about how this turns out. It definitely doesn't put a very good spin on the Point

Thargy

It is illegal to sell tickets over their face value

So you say. The Gardai say different.

If you buy tickets from a tout and have any subsequent problems it's your own fault for buying them in the first place.....

Yes...until the venue accepts them for admittance. After that it becomes their problem.
You've obviously never heard of the concept of 'duty of care'.

alb

It's a very unfortunate situation but I don't think you'll have any luck with a claim. It was never in the authority of the bouncers in the first place to say whether the tickets were good or not. Being seated tickets it's to do with the people inside who check there and seat people. I guess if you had initally asked this manger guy instead of the bouncers it would have been a better idea.

You made an illegal transaction to buy stolen merchendise, the fact that a bouncer who only performs a quick check to see that the ticket looks valid didn't pull you up on it doesn't mean you're owed anything

Thargy

the fact that a bouncer who only performs a quick check to see that the ticket looks valid didn't pull you up on it doesn't mean you're owed anything

'The Bouncer' was an agent of the Point, so like it or not, he was not just some disinterested observer, but a member of staff and a representative of the company.

While his normal duty might be to scrutinise tickets in general for forgery, I asked him to do more than that. I specifically asked him if the tickets were valid and I did so in the presence of the seller (the tout). This Point guy certainly knows the touts who are there at every concert. So when he is asked by a customer to verify a ticket being handed to him by one of those self same touts...does he not have a special Duty of Care to be very suspicious about this specific ticket and check it out properly? If necessary call the manager to double check?

There is an issue of negligence on their part.