No Sole traders allowed. Why?

Gordo84

Hi, I've just received an e-mail from one of the Moderators regarding a question i asked about traders and trade prices and it seems that you don't allow traders to sell on the boards, even those traders who are willing to pay a fee per item listed.

Here are my suggestions :

You should come to some arrangement to facilitate traders. You could collect fees on a per item listed basis. You are losing good business not to mention money which would obviously help toward the costs of running the website. There are many sole traders in Ireland who would jump at the chance of selling their items in real time. Because your website is established and has a large audience you would have no problem attracting sellers as well as buyers.

If you have reasons for not allowing traders could you explain why? A genuine trader won't mind paying advertising costs.

ecksor

You have a thread on Admin about this already, and there's a thread on the For Sale boards about this too from a few weeks back.

Gordo84

I don't have access to threads from a couple of weeks ago. I only found out about this site a couple of days ago.

I placed the other thread in the wrong section not knowing were to place it so the thread got moved. I'm a newbie so i'm feeling my way around.

So i placed the question on this thread which seems to be the right thread for this type of question. Still haven't received an answer from the Mods though.

It could be a legal issue but they haven't said. Seems to be a taboo subject.

And ecksor, thanks for your helpful reply.

ecksor

It isn't a legal issue or a taboo issue, it has been discussed at some length. I know the other thread got moved, but it takes time to get some replies in the Admin section.

And you have access to threads from weeks/months/years ago.
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=118851

Gordo84

If it has been discussed at length why haven't they posted their thoughts on the issue. If they just came out and said that they don't allow traders, gave their reasons and post it at the top of the admin section everyone would know where they stood.

I mean, it makes good business sense to open a thread for traders. If its not a legal issue then why haven't they done this.

People will still trade on the boards and ignore the rules. Its amazing how many brothers, sister, uncles, aunties and friends people have when they are regularly selling on the boards.

The traders don't pay a fee, Boards.ie lose out on advertising income. Its very strange that they aren't on top of this. I think its time for them to nip it in the bud and let people know where they stand on the issue instead of threatening anybody caught trading.

Do they need a license to open a trading section?

Lots of questions, very few answers.

Yavvy

Gordo... there are oodles of answers regarding this issue and I suggust you read the newbie FAQ that should give you good assistance searching for these answers. This topic has been discussed and clear answers from Vex, DeVore and Ecksor have been given AFAIK.

just cause your new doesnt mean you cant read discussions and threads form the "Pre Gordo84 era"

I mean, it makes good business sense to open a thread for traders. If its not a legal issue then why haven't they done this.

It would also make good business sense to sell porn** (donkey and other types) , penis enlargement pills and a dating service but its not necessarily the route the owners of boards want to take


You seem to be very keen to have a soul/small traders board and maybe thats just the capitalist instincts in you but I reccomend you look at the for sale fourm. Vexrog has a thread in there in which many regular board users ( and FS general users) give their opinion on traders.

the truth is out there


** please note that im not strictly against the sale of donkey porn...or any other kind on boards.ie.

ecksor

Originally posted by Gordo84
If it has been discussed at length why haven't they posted their thoughts on the issue.

As I said, a response on the Admin forum can take time.

If they just came out and said that they don't allow traders, gave their reasons and post it at the top of the admin section everyone would know where they stood.

At present, we don't allow traders. (There, they came out and said it). As for getting that changed, the thread I pointed you to is the last I heard on any possible moves towards getting that changed. This is pretty transparent, no?

I mean, it makes good business sense to open a thread for traders. If its not a legal issue then why haven't they done this.

Alany answered this, but let me emphasize that although we do take money making opportunities if they suit us to help pay for our costs, boards is not about making money.

I think its time for them to nip it in the bud and let people know where they stand on the issue instead of threatening anybody caught trading.

I'd imagine that anybody caught trading is left in no doubt about where they stand on the issue

Gordo84

"It would also make good business sense to sell porn** (donkey and other types) , penis enlargement pills."

This comment is really ridiculous. Firstly, This board is open to all ages including teenagers. Advertising porn etc. would be the fastest way to have the site shut down. You say that this is not a route that the owners want to take. Too right they don't. They ain't stupid.

It doesn't matter what people think about traders. Whats wrong with somebody showing a bit of enterprise and trying to make some money.

It seems to me that certain people have a problem with single traders being able to make a few quid. Jealousy maybe.

Why can't we get our hands on these fantastic in demand goods and sell them below the market value? If we can't do it then nobody else will do it. On our website, the cheek of them.

The fact is, you just don't like traders. I get the impression you think there is something un-ethical about the whole thing and question the integrity of traders but it really is your loss. Extra advertising revenue would be good, wouldn't it. No, bad for business is it.

I give up! You guys are narrow minded. To be honest, 1 of you needs to take a lead here and explore new avenues of income and pull the rest of you kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

ecksor

Did you read the thread I linked to above?

The admins are pretty open to this for the very reason that it seemed to provide a compromise between allowing traders and not having the sort of covert profiteering that the spirit of the ban prevents (but also see Keeks' posts on the subject above).

This question seems to be still open, so it hasn't been rejected. Wait for a more definite answer from Vexorg and the For Sale mods.

Gordo84

I've checked out vexorgs thread. Some interesting stuff.

A seperate board is a must. Don't what to infringe on private sellers.

Nobody seems to have a problem with traders, infact most people who have replied to the thread welcome traders.

You could charge a fee per item placed or if the trader is selling on a very regular basis you could come to a yearly monthly arrangement regarding fees.

Simply process a creditcard payment periodically.

But you guys are still dragging your heels on the issue. I mean everybody wins here guys. Cheaper goods being sold. The trader makes some money and you guys receive advertising fees. Lets get the ball rolling.

Yavvy

"It would also make good business sense to sell porn** (donkey and other types) , penis enlargement pills."

hrmm...if anyone for one second thought i was serious about said products I would scoff at them...consider yourself scoffed.

It doesn't matter what people think about traders. What’s wrong with somebody showing a bit of enterprise and trying to make some money.

nothing, infact im a sales person myself., I love the "ol Cha- ching" .I just get the impression your a little too eager and like all good sales people your looking for customers to come to you.
I can understand your desire to exploit the collective purchasing power of boards users... but

you still dont seem to be able to grasp the concept that the owners of Boards.ie are generally open to all suggestions, however commercial value is not necessarily the most important or deciding factor . Crazy as it may seem the admins seem to to actually care about the "community” that is boards and not the " All New and improved ...limited offer ...commercial value " of the site. As a sales person I too often find this a difficult concept...accepts it.

It seems to me that certain people have a problem with single traders being able to make a few quid. Jealousy maybe.

..am..yeah....that must be it.

No, bad for business is it.

post on the Irish jedi council you should

I give up!

aww dont give up, thats not the spirit of a trader...keep on, not reading the replies and posting your excellent ideas to make millions , I for one find it very funneh

1 of you needs to take a lead here and explore new avenues of income and pull the rest of you kicking and screaming into the 21st century.

if any one wants to pull me anywhere ..i promise I will not kick or scream ( unless you want me to.)


*****Conclusion*********
read replies
calm down
find your own customers

Gordo84

Whatever

ecksor

Originally posted by Gordo84
Whatever

I think you should be more open minded!

Just relax and wait for responses from the people I named. Impatience gets up our noses.

Gordo84

Ecksor, I am not being impatient and it makes me laugh when Alany posts useless replys to my questions.

I posted a question, didn't ask for alanys opinion.

He probably doesn't have the extensive network of suppliers i have worked hard to build over a long period.

He probably doesn't have the money to purchase the goods i can supply at knock down prices.

I'll bet he wishes he had, then he wouldn't post his irrelevant ignorant comments.

I mean, does he believe that people should only purchase from the large commercial/retail stores at scandalous prices and in the process line the pockets of the store owners who in turn pay their staff a pitiful wage for doing the work.

If he had access to goods and could make a profit would he turn the Opportunity down. I think not.

ecksor

Originally posted by Gordo84
Ecksor, I am not being impatient and it makes me laugh when Alany posts useless replys to my questions.

I think his responses have been fine. All I mean by impatience is that you seem to be assuming that you're being ignored because you don't like the answers or you feel you're not being answered or the answers are a bit tardy. Just relax.

I posted a question, didn't ask for alanys opinion.

As I said in my first post here, you already have a thread on Admin / Support about this. If you don't want other users' opinion then you shouldn't have posted in this forum.

He probably doesn't have the extensive network of suppliers i have worked hard to build over a long period.

He probably doesn't have the money to purchase the goods i can supply at knock down prices.

I'll bet he wishes he had, then he wouldn't post his irrelevant ignorant comments.

This sort of **** is just going to get up people's noses (mine for example).

If he had access to goods and could make a profit would he turn the Opportunity down. I think not.

Perhaps he would. You're very presumptuous, be a bit more open minded ...

vinnyfitz

Originally posted by Gordo84


He probably doesn't have the extensive network of suppliers i have worked hard to build over a long period.

He probably doesn't have the money to purchase the goods i can supply at knock down prices.

Really - and I thougth you were just an ordinary citizen:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=1209341#post1209341

:rolleyes:

Gordo84

Ecksor, I am a very openminded person. It is some of the mods who are closed minded about the issue.

This question was posted months ago and you are telling me that the Mods are still considering it. That would test the patience of a saint.

Considering what? Whats to consider. Its either a yes or no. Make a decision. Post it in large uppercase text and bring closure.

Some Mods support the idea of traders and some don't. Who is in charge of running the website? Who has the final say?

Vexorgs thread has amassed a large volume of opinions yet a final decision hasn't been made.

If someone posts this question next month are you going to tell them to relax and be openminded and that the Mods are discussing the issue. Its a bit of a joke really. They have a commercial section for the likes of Elara etc. but small traders are not allowed advertise.

Where is the logic?

Atreides

Vexorg, ecksor ,Regi ,Cloud , DeVore, (and somes others) basically run and own this Website, they make the policy decisions in general. Vexorg and keeks run the sales element of boards.ie, it is only an element, not the whole site, not even most of the site, just a part.

Moderators only have say over there own forum, opinions offered by moderators on subjects not related to their own forum are treated just like anybody elses.

Small Traders are allowed to advertise, if you want to by a months worth of banner space, or purchase a commercial forum for a years contract, i'm sure it can be arranged.

The administration is trying to prevent profitering and exploitation which is rampant on other for sale forums. Where users have no interest in contributing to the community, but merely use it to turn a profit. For-sale forums where orginally designed for users to sell and buy "stuff" amoung themselves. Not very fair using a non-profit organisation like boards to make a cheap buck, wouldn't you say?

You seem quiet aggressive and confrontational with people who are tryign to save you allot of time and trouble. This is not a place where he who shouts loudest wins.

Yavvy

gordo...you do make me smile. bless you.

Yesh Im sure i would be very jelous of you if I was a trader...but alas im not. my business is not similar to yours and I dont need a network of anything...cept maybe a computer network.

I started posting replys trying to be helpful to you. but your so intense that any one who isnt saying " YEAH YEAH SOLE TRADERS >>> LETS ALL MAKE MONEY ON TEH BOARDS ..SELLIN IS TEH BESTH" is your enemy ( and possible customer)

TBCH your exactly the sort of trader i would be afraid of buying from if boards had a sole trading section. Your post is in feedback...welcome to the feedback del boy.

GuanYin

A thread was opened to discuss and consider this. If you posted there, I'm sure the relevent people have read the post.

What you are effectively doing here is snapping your fingers at the Admins/Mods to get them to do your bidding. Admins don't respond well to that and it tends to be a textbook way of not getting what you want.

Finally, considering your recent activity on "For Sale" and the fact that you know traders aren't allowed, openly touting yourself as a trader may not be the smartest route to go from there on in.....

Gordo84

Vinnyfitz,The laptop i sold is my own and any other goods i have put up for sale are my own.

Being an honest person i raised the issue of traders because until a definate decision is made the questions will continue to be raised.

Obviously i could have kept quiet and exploited the for sale thread by continuing to advertise laptops/phones etc. just like others are doing. But if i were to advertise on a regular basis i don't mind paying for the privilege unlike others.

I won't be advertising anything i purchase to sell for a profit because i have ethics and believe it is unfair to use a service that is not meant for traders.

I only found out about this site about a week ago and decided to sell off anything i own that i don't need. Advertising goods with the sole intention of making a profit and doing it slyly doesn't appeal to me. I prefer to be upfront and honest about good that i purchase for resale.

Gordo84

Alany, You've just let it be known what you think of traders. So you think that traders are "Dell boys". I certainly wouldn't purchase goods from anybody who appeared to be a del boy type.

Dell boys sell shoddy goods with no come back. Dell boys get their goods from dubious sources. Imagine somebody being able to sell goods at wholesale prices and still make a profit Alany. No way. I must be a dell boy type then! I must be out to rip people off and sell them stolen goods. You are right, there are many dell boys out there but they don't sell their goods on the internet. They sell on street corners and via mobile phone. Whoever i sell my goods to has access to my home/mobile no. and my address. I don't have anything to hide and you are not the type of paranoid person i would sell to seeing as you have already made your mind up about the real intention of traders.

Yavvy

no no no ...I said YOU are the soft of trader I would have concerns about. Im all for traders and cheaper goods. Im actually infavour of a traders fourm ... my post have been about your ignorance ...I wont be taring all traders with the brush I have painted you with.

again ...please listen to the advice others....and in the immortal words of the scousers

"calm down, calm down"


You not really making a great case for your self and others that may wish to use boards for trading goods.

Figment

I love when people are incapable of listening.

DeVore

Hang on... I didnt see Vex's post and I suggested that this user start a thread to debate it. He's not snapping his fingers, I did suggest he do this so that we could get a discussion going.

In many ways I'm glad he has observed our rules and refrained from trading and asked for change.


I read that thread (on FS) today and its exactly what I was trying to prompt here. Vex was ahead of me. We have an issue:
We have small traders who cant afford the 1000 notes for a years CI Board. We can always just say "sod yis, too bad" if that were the outcome of our deliberations but it seems that people dont mind so long as they have a separate forum to trade in.

Personally I would prefer that too... that way I can conveniently completely ignore that forum

I dont mind commercialism but I BLOODY WELL WANT IT CLEARLY MARKED AS SUCH.

Anyway, I think this discussion should move over to vex's thread which is more on-topic and what not.

Sorry Gordo, I probably gave you some bum advice.


DeV.

Gordo84

Devore, thanks for your reply. I'm glad to see that you can see where i'm coming from on this issue.

I may come across as an aggressive trader to some people but that is definately not my intention. I could pussyfoot around the issue but i would be none the wiser as to the intentions of the boards owners.

I am becoming impatient because the issue has been raised before and the board haven't decided either way. I like to ask a straight question and receive a straight answer instead of being told to be more open minded and less aggressive.

If i can come to an arrangement with the board owners that would be great. I would probable only sell about 4 or 5 high value items a week anyway. I'm not a big time charlie out to monopolize the for sale threads with my items. Selling as a trader in real time is a viable option for me and many other single traders.

If the Mods replied and told me that under no circumstances will they allow traders such as myself use the boards even if they are willing to pay advertising costs i will accept this and move on but the lack of a quick, no frills answer to my question only prolongs the uncertainty. A definate answer is all i ask.

amp

I like the idea of a sole trader board. It could have threads restricted to traders that pay boards a certain amount (flat fee or percentage or something) Of course, joe punter could reply to threads in the fashion of the For Sale board.

It could be the boards equivilant of a car boot sale basically.

Gordo48, I think you need to be a little more patient. Boards is a big place because changes are considered carefully. If every suggestion made by user was implemented without due consideration then we'd very quickly end up in anarchy.

Gordo84

Amp, with all due respect. I haven't plucked this question out of the air.

The Mods have had plenty of time to think about this. Nobody is trying to push them into a quick decision but in fairness leaving potential traders in the dark is unproductive.

The question was posted months ago. This board has been running for years. Its hardly and issue thats only come to the fore in the past few days. Yes, it takes time to implement a trade board but nobody knows if they intend to do this.

They have all the feedback they need to make a decision. It seems that an overwhelming majority are in favour of a seperate traders thread but as yet nothing has been finalised either way.

I mean, how hard can it be for the owners to have a meeting, Discuss all the feedback and come to a decision. It seems to me that looking for some concrete answers on the subject should be avoided as it might upset the mods.

What can i say. I'm a decisive person. I am a believer in gathering the info, coming to a conclusion and making a decision.

Gordo84

Guys, having looked back through this thread i can see why people think i am coming across a bit heavy.

Typing text on a board in a certain way can give the impression of an over eager capitalist trying to force the Mods into a favourable decision regarding opening a traders thread. I'm actually quite an easy going person believe it or not and am not pushing for an answer on this question to annoy the owners.

But i do believe that people should know where they stand. And thats all i was asking at the top of the thread.

ecksor

I appreciate that, but I tried to let you know where you stand! The danger is that by the time the people who can give you a better idea come along the thread is 3 or 4 pages long and it starts looking like hassle and a bit pushy ...

Gordo84

ecksor, this is exactly what i'm talking talking about. By the time the owners of the board come along etc etc etc.

Who runs the website. Can i contact them via my mobile. Will they contact me.

The only reason a thread goes on and on and on is because the website owners don't have a definate answer on the subject.

Ecksor, can i contact you via mobile or can u pass me onto the website owner regarding this issue. I'd rather talk to the owners. It would save me a lot of hassle.

ecksor

Originally posted by Gordo84
ecksor, this is exactly what i'm talking talking about. By the time the owners of the board come along etc etc etc.

That's not what I said ...

Who runs the website. Can i contact them via my mobile. Will they contact me.

You can contact everyone you need to contact here. I've posted, DeVore has posted, you just need to wait for Vexorg and the For Sale mods since they may have had discussions outside of the forums and have reached some conclusions.

I'm repeating myself here.

Anyway, our commercial director, Vexorg, didn't come into work today. He has flu. I'll be sure to pass on your message to his personal secretary who will ensure that he returns your query ASAP.

The only reason a thread goes on and on and on is because the website owners don't have a definate answer on the subject.

Yep, and we haven't settled on one in the last 24 hours either. And I can't predict how long it will take. For the record, I was in favour of this when the subject was first raised, but the FS users gave some good feedback on how it should work, and we haven't gotten around to coming to a definite conclusion and putting that into action yet.

Ecksor, can i contact you via mobile or can u pass me onto the website owner regarding this issue. I'd rather talk to the owners. It would save me a lot of hassle.

You can contact me via PM or e-mail.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Blade

Theres a restructuring of the whole classifieds area that I've suggested to Vex and Keeks coming soon. The traders section will probably follow soon after that. Theres a few issues still to be sorted. Patience please!

Gordo84

Thanks for your reply mercury_tilt. You see very down to earth about the whole issue which is refreshing.

Hopefully i will be able to discuss this with the owners, preferably vexorg. Hes on my side, lol.

Gordo84

Blade, where have you been. Thats the kind of forward movement i've been looking for. Glad to hear that the structuring of a traders thread is in progress. PROGRESS being the operative word.

Victor

Originally posted by Gordo84
Blade, where have you been. Thats the kind of forward movement i've been looking for. Glad to hear that the structuring of a traders thread is in progress. PROGRESS being the operative word.

Gordo84, I agree with you when you say that you may have come across a little harsh earlier in the thread (not necessarily condemning you for it). I admire your optimism, forwardness and directness, however expecting everyone to respond identically is overly optimistic and could be your downfall. Secondly, hard sell only works in certain lines of business (many people on boards.ie on wise to hard sells).

I've been involved with all types of businesses in the last 12 years from Mick from Mayo doing a bit of carpentry to companies and individuals worth in the hundreds of millions euros each. Each has their own emphasis and priorities. For Mick from Mayo €500 means whether or not he has bread on the table in the morning, for Mr. XXXXXX XXXX, €500 means whether or not he has that really nice bottle of wine for dinner, but may still haggle over the €500 (that’s why he's worth what he's worth, although Daddy helped). There will be all types in between and that includes pretty much everyone in this discussion.

Separately, while boards.ie has a reputation of being a little revolutionary, it's organisation is in fact evolutionary (which very occasional revolution, which will either be krumped on harshly or endorsed heartily). boards.ie started as, forgive me Admins, a toy project that has grown into a beast. I imagine something will come out of this thread, but as DeVore said earlier in the week, they are reviewing the overall direction of boards already and this may take some time.

BTW, I made one f***** pay IR£100,000 for the privilege of being overly optimistic and insisting on my side being revolutionary. He thought he was getting a good deal. Will I give you the same deal?

Gordo84

Victor, Like i said, i am not trying to force their hand on the issue. But how much time do they need to think about introducing a traders thread.

Its either a yes or a no. Yes, i agree that introducing a traders thread needs due consideration but they have known this for a long time. Its not like they have only been discussing this issue since i posted my question.

Why is everybody telling me to calm down and give it time. I don't understand this. I am calm, very calm infact. I only asked a straight question.

Like i said before and i don't know how often i have to say it. The board will either endorse trading amongst traders or they won't. I get the impression that people are afraid to express their opinion in case they offend the Mods. Its a really weird situation.

Its as if everybody is telling me to watch what i say and keep things hush hush. To be honest i'm beginning to feel very uncomfortable with the whole situation.

I can't get a straight answer yet i am being condemned for expecting a straight answer. If this was a new concept i could understand but it has been discussed at length yet nobody seems to be able to just say "Gordo, No traders allowed, period" or "Gordo, you can contact so and so at this number to discuss further".

Blade

Originally posted by Gordo84
I get the impression that people are afraid to express their opinion in case they offend the Mods. Its a really weird situation.

Its as if everybody is telling me to watch what i say and keep things hush hush. To be honest i'm beginning to feel very uncomfortable with the whole situation.

I don't think you understand what this community is all about, where it came from and how it grew. You're just walking into this now and you think it's all a bit weird, thats understandable. People usually do when they come here first, then they realise we're not so bad after all. Except Bubbles, watch out for him!

You're not being told to hush, you're being asked to chill.

DeVore

Aye, nobody actually *works* for this site so changes take a loooooong time sometimes. And we have a lot of change right now.

Not only that but you are asking for something that might well piss people off if it isnt handled correctly. So far we have integrated Commerical Internest boards very nicely by reversing the current way capitalism works. They dont advertise their wares by spam, they sit there and wait for people to come by to buy their stuff.

The same will apply to traders too, its just setting up the monetary mechanism that might take time.


So, to give you an idea of the sorts of things you dont see that have to be arranged:

1. How much do we charge and for what?

2. How do we enforce this by programming (cos there is no way we can enforce it by hand, even with our diligent mods... and its nuts to ask them anyway, they are busy enough!)

3. Will you pay for a year in advance? Otherwise we have to check your account ever month. Thats another load of work when you multiply that by all the traders.

4. We dont have credit card processing facilities... how do we take your cash? how does that translate to a setting in the database which says "yes this guy can post here".

5. Do we really want to do this? (The answer seems to be "yes" given that threads contents).

So ... theres what we are currently thinking about. As Blade says you arent being told to shut up, you are just being asked to chill, there is a LOT of change in the pipeline ahead of you and sometimes even just setting up a forum takes weeks. And thats fairly easy!


DeV.