Provisional A Motorbike licence - what bikes can I drive?

SuprSi

I'm gonna apply for my provisional A bike licence which means I can drive bikes giving up to 33bhp.

Can someone give me a general list of bikes in this category? I've heard they range anywhere from 125cc to 900cc but don't fancy the idea of having to go to each manufacturer's site to find bikes that meet the criteria.

Many thanks,

Si.

SuprSi

Actually, forget it. I just called my broker to see how much I'll have to pay for my bike for next year, and have found that I'm going to have to play €139 more than last year, even with no claims. The guy I was speaking to said that this was down to Hibernian raising their costs by 30% - 40%. I don't know how they can get away with this.

Also, and this has really pissed me off, I found out that even a factory restricted bike, like a Suzuki Bandit 600, is charged at full 600cc insurance costs, even though it's restricted!! How can they do this!?! The bike in unrestricted form produces 78bhp, while in restricted form produces 33bhp. That's nearly 1/3 the power, meaning it'll be slower in both top speed and acceleration, so how can they get away with not taking the restrictor into account in their quotes?

I'm going to have to think long and hard about re-insuring my bike cos I thought I'd be paying less insurance a year later. At this stage the insurance, in two years, will have cost me more than the bike and all the gear put together.

I'm seriously pissed off with this poxy rip-off country.

Si.

Doctor J

That's why my poor oul Vespa doesn't get out anymore.

Every year, I got older, more experienced and more mature and the insurance (from Hibernian) went up without fail.

I left it to the last day to pay the premium to extend the policy (I couldn't get any time off work to go in) and when I got to their place on Dawson street, they told me I couldn't pay bike insurance there anymore!!! I had to go to Haddington Road, which I didn't have time to do, so I let the policy expire and wait until after Christmas (6 days). In early January I went back to pay the premium and it had gone up by over 30%.

Thieves.

Kazujo

The restricted Bandit 600 is group 5 insurance I'm driving one at the mo. people who work for insurance companies are mostly dumb and dont now anything about bikes, if your buying new go to AON for insurance their cheaper than hibernian and their only realk clause that I know of is that the bike must be new.

Doodee

hey, in sorta the same boat, getting my provy and a bike to go wiv.


bikes i have checked out are
125CC :
Yamaha Virago
Yamaha Dragstar
Kawasaki Eliminator
Suzuki Marauder
Suzuki Intruder
and the Varadero.

err, dont AON only really deal through Bike shops?

theprofessor

When I first got my A license I was told that you could get any Honda up to and including 350cc(I know it is a 33BHP limit but supposedly all the Honda's, 350 and under are grouped by the insurance co's in this category)

This means you could get a CBR 250/Hornet 250.

I have a Hornet 250 and I'm on a restricted license. It is actually a 40BHP bike but since its under 350cc the insurance co's say its cool.

I was with AON, but now I'm with Carol Nash. Both of them said it was fine and that THEY had it down as a 33BHP bike, even though I have it on the HondaJP site saying 40BHP.

Just in case you can get insurance without them looking for your first born son.

SuprSi

Originally posted by Kazujo
The restricted Bandit 600 is group 5 insurance I'm driving one at the mo. people who work for insurance companies are mostly dumb and dont now anything about bikes, if your buying new go to AON for insurance their cheaper than hibernian and their only realk clause that I know of is that the bike must be new.

Aon is my broker! It was they who quoted me over €3,500 to drive a factory restricted Bandit 600. I'm 27 and have been with them for a year already, hence my shock and disappointment. How much was your insurance?

Si.

a_ominous

For a list of 33 BHP bikes take a look at MAG Ireland

I've commented on this a few times in the past on this forum. Do a search on motorbike or motorcycle.

A provisional A licence holder can ride any bike they want as long as its restricted to 33 BHP or < 0.16 kW/Kg (I think that figure is correct, it's not listed on the Oasis web site or the provisional licence application form ; can't recall where I read that)

There is a difference in how the insurance company treats restricted bikes. Hibernian will only recognise factory restrictions for premium calculation as the others are easily removed, so I'm told. An unrestricted Bandit 600 (78BHP) is group 10 while a factory restricted bandit is group 5 (33BHP). You shouldn't have to buy new, but you will need to get the certificate to show the bike has been restricted.

You could go out and get any bike restricted even say a 1800cc Goldwing which might be technically within licence requirements but the insurance company might treat it differently. In fact the driver testers have been known to refuse large bikes, around 750cc even thought they meet power requirements < 0.16kW/kg.

The insurance groups are calculated on the power to weight ratio, so that's why a 2 stroke RS250 is in a higher group than say a Bros 400.

You can get an idea of which group a bike is in at BikeWorld A good few bike shops are agents for AON and can give you a quote when you're buying.


Hope this helps
-AO-

a_ominous

A provisional A licence holder can ride any bike they want as long as its restricted to 33 BHP or < 0.16 kW/Kg

The 0.16 kW/kg is listed on my full driving licence. It must be listed somewhere else too...

theprofessor

I was with AON when I bought my Hornet250. When the renewal came around they wanted to up the price from 2000 to 2700!!! (I'm 22 with a Full A license and the 2 years no claims).

So I went into the AON offices and said; "I just wanted to confirm your mistake with this renewal offer". To which they said......."oh yes......actually we have.............(out with the calculator)...........it should have been 3000.......very sorry about that!".

At this point I nearly went nuts. I'm a student and almost every penny I earn goes on my bloody insurance (and servicing). I would not have been able to afford the extra €20 per week, so I would have had to sell.

Anyway, long story short I called in to Carol Nash who quoted me €1970 (all these are TPO naturally :-( ), but I was happy at the time, since I could then afford to keep my bike!

Have you tried Carol Nash SuprSi? They say that you have to have 2 years no claims bonus for them to take you, so that kind of rules out you guys who are starting out. Which means that you are stuck with that shower Hibernian, one way or the other.

Also interesting is that Carol Nash recently quoted me 1900 on a Suzuki SV650 (full power, not restricted, group 8) !?!?!? yet I'm paying 1970 on a 250(group 6). Can anyone work that one out?
So from that you can take it that my Hornet 250 is for sale and I'm buying an SV650S before they change their minds on the quote!

Also, the list of bikes on the MAG site says that a BROS 400 is under 33BHP? Does anyone have a bros? Can anyone confirm this?

SuprSi

a_ominous - thanks for that list, it's exactly what I was looking for. Just one question - all the bikes on the list are either below 33bhp or can be restricted to below 33bhp, even something like the Honda Blackbird? It'd be a waste to limit a bike like that, but it's very interesting.

I must go back to AON and ask them again cos I gave the guy I was speaking to grief over them not lowering their quotes for a restricted bike.

As for Carroll Nash, I initially called them (before getting insured with AON) but they said they really only insure bigger bikes, so my little 90cc would cost quite a bit more.

Cheers all,

Si.

a_ominous

hi SuprSi, yup you could in theory restrict a Blackbird but unless the insurance company recognizes it, you'll pay as if it wasn't restricted. Remember seeing the Hibernian table a few months ago and for an 18 year old the insurance would touch 30000 Euro, that's right 30 THOUSAND fcuking euro for a year's insurance.

I rang Carole Nash for quotes the last time, but they won't give me fully comp insurance unless the bike is garaged at night. And their TP insurance was more expensive than FC from Hib

I think that most scooters are insured with Hib for the reason you mentioned, ie bike has to be over 250cc.

And don't forget AON are a broker who deal with Hibernian. unless the restriction is done in the factory, AON/Hibernian won't give you the credit for it.

Ride safe, ride freeeeeeeee

batman_oh

as a_ominous said u can restrict anythin,but unless its a recognised factory restriction u will be payin full insurance which at 18 will be in multiples of 10 thousand!
bros 400 makes 33bhp exactly, so it gets under the provisional a thingy
if u can try carole nash, im dumpin aon for a year to go 2 carole nash, savin 500 quid 2300-1800 on rs250, but goin back next year coz aon, unlike nash will insure u on anythin if u pay(my mate has a 916 ducati and hes 20, payin 3000 insurance!)
professor grab that sv650! to the best of my knowledge nash have that in group 10(maybe12) out of 17, hornet is prob 10 aswell but maybe loaded a bit for some reason
me at 23 in bog with 2 years no claims and full licence on rs250 is 1800 and my friend was payin 1700 on a fazer400 with 4 years and a full licence with nash, so it seems like a pretty great deal

Victor

Originally posted by SuprSi
Actually, forget it. I just called my broker to see how much I'll have to pay for my bike for next year, and have found that I'm going to have to play €139 more than last year, even with no claims. The guy I was speaking to said that this was down to Hibernian raising their costs by 30% - 40%. I don't know how they can get away with this.

Motorbike deaths are up about 40% on last year when against a 10% drop for motorists, 15% for pedestrians and up to 30% for cyclists, for an overall 10% drop.

a_ominous

On choice of bike, check what the shop / seller is offering you. Was talking to a guy at the weekend who has bought a new Deauville on a provisional. I did some research later and this is a 650cc bike, putting out 41kW with a dry weight of 230kg, which is a power to weight ratio of 0.178.
This is over the licence restriction of 0.16 so the guy is driving illegally. The insurance company could refuse to pay out in the event of an accident even though the guy has paid 2000 for insurance.

So I suppose it's a case of caveat emptor. If you're going for a biggish bike, check it out first. Driving testers have been known to refuse tests on 600cc bikes even though they meet power to weight requirements.

seamus

Originally posted by Victor
Motorbike deaths are up about 40% on last year when against a 10% drop for motorists, 15% for pedestrians and up to 30% for cyclists, for an overall 10% drop.

Motorbike insurance isn't separated from car insurance by Hibernian. In 70% of Motorcycle -v- Car collisions, the car is found at fault. Yet motorcycle premiums have risen consistently, because car ones have.

Kazujo

I see nothing consistant about raising premiums by 35% in one go, it's an absolute disgrace the way the insurance industry operates in this country.

skateing dragon

The new law is if you want a bike it has to be 125cc and 11bhp

Wossack

Holy thread resurrection batman!

unkel

Wossack wrote:

Holy thread resurrection batman!

Indeed - 4 years old :eek:

Closed.