Level of Service in Ireland

GuanYin

Has anyone else noticed how bad service is in this country when it comes to hotels, shops, restaurants etc.

Customer service people in shops are often the rudest most ignorant people in the world and often treat you like a second rate person because you want to return something.

Waiters and Waitresses in Ireland are abysmal, compared to the US effort, friendliness and an attempt at customer satisfaction are non existant. I was once out with a large crowd for dinner and after a waitress spilled drink on one of our party we felt somewhat agrieved when told "the drink wouldn't be added to the bill". After complaining they offered to pay for the cleaning (knowing noone would ever come back with it). Now some people think its wrong to freeload in a situation like that, but if you are paying high prices (and Ireland is one of the most expensive countries to eat out in) you expect a good night and if it ruined, you should be compensated. Recently a woman at the table opposite me asked a waitress what was in a dish and was answered with "I dunno, I don't make it".

As for Hotels, my god, some of them are so rude, I arrived at a hotel for a conference wearing jeans and a baseball cap. I was standing at reception ignored while two people who arived after me were attended to. When I was finally addressed, she looked at me and said "Oh, I thought you were a delivery boy". It got worse from there, but I digress...

The main point is, we seem to accept it. We seem loathe to send back a bad meal or complain about poor conditions for fearof "making a fuss". It may be partly our fault that services are so bad here, but surely if we are now in a position where we are one of the most expensive countries to live in, a "customer first" attitude should be established.

</rant>

star gazer

It does appear to be a problem alright, just because you dress casually the employees tend to look down their nose at you. The training of staff should be on professionalism where you do not judge someone and give a basic level of respect to all. Maybe the industry is used to paying low wages to staff so they don't feel they're paid enough to be courteous. If we want to keep a strong tourist industry irish hotels are going to have to smarten up or our reputation will be damaged, not only rip-off ireland but unprofessional ireland too.
The americans expect tips and that gives them an incentive to be smiling all the time, it feels a little pushy and ungenuine when they express concern.

Paddy20

Ignorance is bliss!. Which just about sums up the general attitude of a lot of staff in the so called hospitality industry.

If you pay peanuts! etc, what can we expect, but there again a lot of customers are not exactly very courteous of the staff, either!.

P.:ninja:

ArphaRima

It just doesnt suit our culture.

Israel is supposedly the worst country in the world for hospitality, politics aside. Mcdonalds staff there are world-renowned for being caustic.

The best examples of service that I have ever seen are to be found in South America. I have eaten in restaurants where beyond the initial order not a word needed to be said to the staff to ask for anything. All was anticipated. My beer glass was down to a third, the man fills it up. I reach for my cigarettes, the waiter lights it for me. I gets dark, the candles are lit. All without saying a word or interrupting the conversation I was in. Legendary.

That could never happen in Ireland. There is no tradition of professional waitering. It is a job for semi-skilled or temp workers, so Irish people seem to think its beneath them. People complain/joke that immigrants are now running most fast-food joints now. God bless them. They do a far better job than the Irish knackers that were there (except perhaps for those with english language difficulties).

spongebob

Originally posted by fluffer
There is no tradition of professional waitering. It is a job for semi-skilled or temp workers, so Irish people seem to think its beneath them.

The Irish tradition is in high transaction volume Bar work. Watch one experienced Irish bar person in action against the whole of the rest of the world in a busy bar. Legendary. You feel a sense of pride when you are witnessing it abroad.

Ironically, as we completely lose our grip on the Hospitality industry at home the Irish are still in demand in bars the world over.

Keeping things grooving aong smoothly during a long dinner is not our forté, never will be.

M

Blackjack

It has to be said that the Hospitality Industry is one of the hardest and lowest paid to work in. You are expected to work all of the unsocial hours, your wages are the bare minimum, you're lucky if public transport (I don't include Taxi's) is still operating when you finish, and that's usually after a 12 hour day, if you are fortunate.
Added to that, should anything go wrong, you have almost no backup system. A friend of mine worked in a supervisory role in a Hotel in a none too shabby part of town. He was injured (at work) to the extent that he could not work for six weeks. During the six weeks (for which he got no wages) he asked the Hotel if they could assist him to meet some bills. They did, but when he returned to work he was told that that funds were his Holiday pay and more - he owed 2 weeks of work in order to repay the hotel. He approached the relevant bodies about it and was advised that "Hotels are a bit of a grey area, we don't really cover that sort of thing".
And that was one of the better Hotels to work in.

The problem is not fully that people think the work is below them, it's that you are expected to dedicate your life for very little reward. While years ago when unemployment was a lot higher than it was today, Hotels and restaurants could afford to pay peanuts because Hotels could have the pick of the Bunch. However, jobs are a little more plentiful, good workers now have to be rewarded, otherwise they will go elsewhere. This point seems to have missed the Hotel and Catering fraternity completely, and now they reap the reward with the p*ss poor service that's provided by the staff (who are incidentally paid peanuts).

That said, I completly agree with Muck's statement:

The Irish tradition is in high transaction volume Bar work.

When you see an Irish Person behind a bar, you can pretty much rest assured that
a) they know what they're doing
b) You'll get served pretty sharpish
c) Chances are they can look after more than one customer at a time, and that their application of Time and motion behind the bar is second to none.

I have a few theories as to why that is.
One is that they rather be busy than stand around (which is an affliction that seems to apply to Barstaff from our most Easterly neighbouring countries), hence why you are likely to get a beer this side of closing time.
Another is that they actually enjoy the job, it is somewhat sociable at times and Irish people are generally sociable.
However, I think the one that probably really nails it is that they have seen it several times (how it is done properly) before ever setting foot behind a Bar, and hate it themselves when they have to wait to get served.

You can always spot the Irish person behind the bar abroad - he/she is the one spinning out the Drinks as fast as is humanly possible and five times faster than the others (while taking the orders of 5 different punters and telling them the price-have your money ready). The sense of urgency and professionalism in getting the Drinks to the customer cannot be matched.

Mind you, Bar work is probably the better paying of all of the industry's areas, which probably explains the difference.

ArphaRima

Bar work. I agree. We still rock at this.

Hotel and restaurant service however....

MadsL

The lack of cop on in the service industry can be staggering...I recently went into a newsagent for a coffee. The girl was sweeping the floor, when I asked for coffee I was told
'The delis closed',
I pointed to the coffee machine and said
"but the machine's still on can I just get a coffee..."
"No, I'm off home now"
I was gobsmacked, and asked if there was another coffee machine.
"You should get a jar from the shelf" she said
'fvkin quicker' I thought...

The problem is that we don't want to pay for service. In the States everyone is incentivised to SELL...the girl in the deli would actually have a portion of her wages formed from the amount she sold, so I would have got my coffee and been upsold a slice of pie, with a big smile.

In Ireland, despite complaining (to anyone except the owner) about poor service we are not prepared to pay for it. Ironically where we do get great service, as Muck has pointed out, is behind the bar but we have no tradition of tipping bartenders. When you tip in most pubs, then it is like you have two heads. There is just (some) pride left in the job and that is why you get good service, however as more and more Irish bar staff cop-on that they can make much better money overseas...

Imposter

Originally posted by MadsL
In Ireland, despite complaining (to anyone except the owner) about poor service we are not prepared to pay for it.

I dissagree here. I say we're expected to pay the same price in Ireland (and possibly more) than elsewhere but they also get proper service as well.

MadsL

I dissagree here. I say we're expected to pay the same price in Ireland (and possibly more) than elsewhere but they also get proper service as well.

They either incentivise the staff, or the customers tip. Or both.

Here we rarely train the staff to sell, or reward them for it, and we are terrible tippers. We automatically get charged a service charge, but almost never deduct it if the service is poor. We also look down on service staff.

seamus

Originally posted by syke

Waiters and Waitresses in Ireland are abysmal, compared to the US effort, friendliness and an attempt at customer satisfaction are non existant.

The worst waitress I ever had was an American in Ireland, but I'm sure that was a once off.

Customer service in Ireland is all too often overlooked by the employer mostly. Any job I've been in (except my very first job with Superquinn), the training focus has been on the job. How to do it, what to do. Nothing about how to deal with the customer, how to resolve complaints by conceding to the customer, or solving their problem immediately.
Superquinn though gave I think 3 days training (it was a few years back now ), and most of it was customer service. Drilled into us. And it sticks with me to this day.
Most people have no concept of customer service. Employees who've never had to deal with the public before, or who've never been trained properly to deal with them, can't be blamed for being snotty. On top of that, the majority of people on the front lines are, as someone said, overpaid and underworked. There are a lot of people who feel the need to treat customers like crap, because they get treated like crap by their employers.
Once again, it comes down to what Irish people are willing to stand for. Irish people don't vote with their feet. TBH, I've been guilty of this from time time, but I tend to avoid places that have treated me badly in the past.
We've seen it numerous times here on boards, in the papers, and when we use them, companies giving a blatant two fingers to customers, basically saying "If you don't like it, you know where you can go." For example, we all know how woeful the service is on 1901. It's appalling, really. Yet so many people have come on, complained about eircom, and then said "Ah sure I'll stay with them - it's easier."

*boggle*

You have a choice. You can't complain when you consistently choose the wrong thing.

Funny thing is, what most people in customer service jobs don't realise (and this includes tech support, and pretty much any job that involves talking to a customer of any description) is that it's easier to be nice, 90% of the time. The customer will be more agreeable, more willing to follow direction (if it applies), and consequently, more willing to stick with the company. It also makes your job more enjoyable and fulfilling (regardless how menial the job) if just two or three people a day say - "That's great, you're a star; You're a credit to your company; etc etc". Some members of the public will be arseholes no matter how nice you are to them. But isn't that the way it is in normal life?

Typedef

Originally posted by MadsL
'The delis closed',
I pointed to the coffee machine and said
"but the machine's still on can I just get a coffee..."
"No, I'm off home now"
I was gobsmacked, and asked if there was another coffee machine.
"You should get a jar from the shelf" she said
'fvkin quicker' I thought...

Reminds me of that scene in Falling Down (with Michael Douglas).

"Rick.... have you ever heard the term"
"The customer is always right ?"

Quatre Mains

this is a topic which really sets me off. I have always been annoyed at the way customers are treated in Ireland. This year I spent 7 months in the US and felt positively spoiled because I was not used to being treated with respect in shops, but thats like a distant dream now. Its so prevalent now that it seems to be a part of our identity - the film Intermission eluded to Irish ignorance a couple of times (the bus driver and the vouchers girl)
and we all laughed because it was so true.

On my return to the country as I went thru immigration they had the EU and non-EU resident queue. It was very difficult to distinguish which was which from the pathetic signing. A hispanic couple with v little English mistakenly went to the EU channel. Upon offering their passports to the official, he pointed above his head and gave the charming reponse ' Does that sign above my head say 'non-EU'? I don't think so. That queue.' That was their 1st impression of our country.


I have to say I am glad to see the positive comments about immigrant workers - they truly show us up. I think a a core reason behind people's lack of courtesy is the mentality that they feel they are too good for their job and could walk into another similar job. Its mostly younger people who work these jobs, and they've never experienced leaner times such as the late 80's(I couldn't get a job in McDonalds back then). I think we'll find that over time if unemployment gets higher and sales go down(quite probable), we'll see these places get a bit more respect for customers.

Cheers
Neil

Typedef

I have to say that, in parts of Dublin, mostly places you pay 'real' money in, the level of customer service is quite good.

Ok, in Suits you on Grafton street, the level of service is good.

Ireland is schizophrenic like that, some people would be highly aware of stroking their customers the right way, and some, would positively begrudge it.

I would propose that there is a direct correlation between those who 'have' to support themselves who "won't" draw the dole, and their professionalism in work, all professionalism really is, is providing what the customer wants, with the minimum amount of stress to said customer.

The bonuses are, that .... well.... you get money, for kissing cusomters asses.

Works for me.

ArphaRima

I guess amongst the reasons we have no incentive to have good service is down to a few factors: Management culture, low unemployment, minimum wage.

There is a saying: to test the true character of a man, give him power. Irish people fail this test almost every time. Irish management seems to revolve around discipline and threats rather than support and encouragement.

The Job market is wide open in Ireland. How many people have you heard of who get a job, argue with the boss, and leave after two days, only to get a job the very next day somewhere else. Its an employees market. Not an incentive to excel at ones job.

Minimum wage. A good thing. Definitely.
However;
At the moment a bartender in new york might earn 2-4 dollars an hour average. An Irish bartender is earning a bit above minimum wage (7 euro) at perhaps 10-11 euro an hour.
But there is a tipping culture in the USA and the same bartender in new york may earn 15-30 dollars an hour if he is productive and a good host. The Irish bartender earns 10-11 euro still.

(If I am correct then a dollar per beer is customary in New York, but they also have the likes of third round is free, but the customer is expected to tip generously in that round... Seriously adds up)

smiaras

This post has been deleted.

Typedef

Restaining my urge to troll.

Everybody say nice things about other people please.

Cork

The level of service in banks is poor. I was waiting today for 20 minutes & I decided to walk away.

Shops can also be bad.

Paddy20

Cork,

I agree. Thats why I use 'online banking' for just about everything. Have a look at www.aib.ie

P.
:ninja:

Typedef

Originally posted by Cork
The level of service in banks is poor. I was waiting today for 20 minutes & I decided to walk away.

Shops can also be bad.

Cork.

Please refrain from smoking crack before posting on boards.

Seriously though, you walked away from a Bank because you had to queue for 20 minutes? That's good, sometimes you have to queue longer, and more to the point, AIB's online *anking doesn't work with any browser bar Internet Exploder.

bah!

star gazer

originally posted by typedef
Please refrain from smoking crack before posting on boards.Seriously though, you walked away from a Bank because you had to queue for 20 minutes? That's good, sometimes you have to queue longer, and more to the point, AIB's online *anking doesn't work with any browser bar Internet Exploder.
bah!

lol:D
The banks are trying to get people to stop coming into their branches to save money on staff, not that they ever paid those staff well. The lack of strong competitive forces in the banking sector has allowed customer satisfaction to be a lower priority than it should be to keep people happy. The level of service, the pricing strategies and the real choice available are something that consumers are going to have to shout about and put pressure on industries and the governemnt to get things changed.

eth0_

Originally posted by Typedef

Seriously though, you walked away from a Bank because you had to queue for 20 minutes? That's good, sometimes you have to queue longer, and more to the point, AIB's online *anking doesn't work with any browser bar Internet Exploder.

I'll bet Cork was queueing at lunch time too! I've never been in an understaffed AIB bank, i'll say that for them.
As for their online banking, it works fine for me in Safari, Mozilla Phoenix and IE on a mac, and I *think* opera too.

D-!

ntl have to be the worst for customer service they leave u waiting on the phone for up to an hour and then they cannot deal with the situation when u actually get talkin to them.

sovtek

I didn't know whether to laugh or beat the delivery guy from Apache when he wouldn't accept my coupon.
Him:"That does nuttin for me"
Me: "Sorry?"
Him: "...can't take that, you didn't tell them when you made the order"
Me: " My girlfriend made the order and she did"
Him: "NO she didnae"
Me"I was standing right there...she did"
Him showing me the receipt: "See there's no number one, that means that you didn't tell them and they didn't put the code in for the coupon"
Me: "She did tell them and all that means is that your fellow co-worker didn't do his/her part, that's not my fault"
Him:"Well I'll have to make up the difference so I can't take it"
I then explained to him how the whole customer thing worked which, of course, he gave me a glazed and vacant stare...repeating his famous line.
I told him to call his store. He told me it was closed.
A little more back and forth. I only had a €50...he had to take the coupon as he had no change.
Maybe I was being a bit of an a$$ but I then told him that I usually tip 15-20% after taking all the change.

wasabi

Originally posted by smiaras
What is it about Xtravision staff? They are so ignorant and unfriendly I just feel like shouting "You work in a video store for god sakes! How can you even begin to try and look down at me?". From a distance they seem able to communicate in the english language but up close they can only grunt, except for when you owe a fine and then they are remarkably able to talk!

Part of the problem I think is that there are fewer small businesses any more. There's a tiny video shop on Upper Leeson St called Reel World and they have the most amazing service ever, you walk into the shop and you practically have to beat the staff away so you can have a quiet browse
Big faceless chains breed poor service, IMHO.