Best BroadBand now?

Thargy

Hi All,
Been trying to keep up with the Board regarding BroadBand developments because I wanted to get the service this winter.

I'm a bit uncertain at the moment as to which service to go for, and I'm looking for your advice.

I got a flyer through my mailbox the other day from IOL. They had a comparison chart with Eircom and seemed to beat them on Price, Capping, and on the Freebies (Norton Firewall free with IOL).

Next thing is an Eircom guy calls to my door tonight. Maybe he's psychic!

I chatted with him about the IOL deal. He had the following points...

On price, he says the price IOL quote is cheaper than the price they quote Eircom at because they left VAT out of their own pricing! I have to check this tomorrow!

On Capping he says...You'll never hit 4GB (Eircom) never mind need the 8GB offerred by IOL. He may be right here...is this a clincher for IOL or not?

Onthe freebie he had a very weird argument. He said IOL give Norton Firewall out free because they had been having 'security issues' on their service...whereas Eircom don't because (get this) the anti-virus firewall is on 'your server account at our end'. Sounds like a load of old cobblers to me...I don't think he had a notion what he was on about. Am I wrong?

So whats the verdict folks? Eircom or IOL? What would you do?

Regards,

Thargy

oneweb

This isn't a case of dirty tricks on €ir***'s part. It's downright filthy scumbag tactics.

€ir***'s price is €5 more (both prices already include VAT).

Unless the salesguy has been stalking your internet habits, he has absolutely no way of saying for sure whether you'll reach the cap or not.

Regarding the firewall rubbish? That (IOL "security issues") sounds like libel to me. Having a firewall at the server end? This guy hasn't got a clue. He's just a dirty liar of a door-to-door salesperson likely to be on commission.

If you have to choose between these two... I'd say IOL. Though I'm not on the service... yet

Also consider UTV Clicksilver.

sceptre

Originally posted by Thargy
On price, he says the price IOL quote is cheaper than the price they quote Eircom at because they left VAT out of their own pricing! I have to check this tomorrow!

Please do check it out. If they have left VAT out of their own prices it's cause for complaint to the ASAI and the ODCA.

I rather doubt it though. Esat aren't the company with a long and proud tradition of lying in adverts and quoting ex-VAT prices in adverts aimed at regular consumers. it is a serious issue if it's true though and I'm sure Eircom would be following this up if so. If anyone can provide any evidence that they're doing so I'd rather like to hear it. if they're not, well then they're liars.

On Capping he says...You'll never hit 4GB (Eircom) never mind need the 8GB offerred by IOL. He may be right here...is this a clincher for IOL or not?

I hit over 4GB most months on 56k. My granny would stay under the Eircom cap, anyone who just occasionally browses and doesn't download anything would stay under the Eircom cap. Many typical Net users, combining some downloading and some browsing will at least approach the cap. Quite a few would exceed it (it is a rather pathetic cap/allowance). Esat offer twice the cap - why not cover yourself and save a few quid a month as well.

Onthe freebie he had a very weird argument. He said IOL give Norton Firewall out free because they had been having 'security issues' on their service...whereas Eircom don't because (get this) the anti-virus firewall is on 'your server account at our end'. Sounds like a load of old cobblers to me...I don't think he had a notion what he was on about. Am I wrong?

Cobblers, I mean lies (and rather dumb lies to be honest). They're mostly reselling the Eircom service anyway.

Oh I should highlight this: Eircom do diddly about viruses on their network. That's the reason (along with individual mail users doing diddly about it as well) the mail queues have been crazy for the past month - it's been so clogged with blaster and other nasties that real mail is having problems getting through. Take his "Eircom.net have a magic server to cure all ills" comments and erase them from your mind. It's actually quite worrying that this guy (and he's probably not alone) is going around saying things like this - people will think they're covered wrt an anti-virus solution and well, they're not. Worthy of a negligence case as a statement to be relied upon if he actually works for Eircom but I'm sure there's tiny print in the T&C that covers them for this blatant lie.

So whats the verdict folks? Eircom or IOL? What would you do?

I'd go with the cheaper service with twice the cap and less of the bull****ting sales agents.
(actually I'd go with the Esat service over the Eircom one even it was the same price as the overpriced Eircom service but that's just me)

Honestly it's very difficult not to dislike Eircom when their sales agents try to pull fast ones like this.

Winters

I am amazed the €ircom guy told so much **** to be totally honest. Security problems? Thats jsut total stupidity. No matter who you go for your always going to have security issues, everyone gets them as all pcs broadcast their IP address. Esat are covering the customers ass by giving it away for free.

4GB is pants for downlaod cap. I would have gone over 1/4 of that just updating Battlefield 1942 and getting mods along this week [DesertCombat (550mb) + Battlefield v1.50 (150mb) + Forgotten Hope (500mb) = 1,200mb/1.2GB]. If you plan to browse the web, downlaod files and updates and also stream media then 4GB is purly pants. I easily do 1GB a month on my 56k and I try to downlaod only whats needed.

€ircom are also at least €5 more expensive then the IOL offer.

If i had half a brain i'd go with IOL or UTV

Hal1

Originally posted by sceptre

I hit over 4GB most months on 56k.

Interesting, a typo im sure hehe

seamus

Fs, if one of these guys ever calls to my door, I'm going to say "Our conversation may be recorded for quality control purposes". :rolleyes:

Basically, everything he's told you is bull. Esat are cheaper before and after VAT. If he said (or showed you) that eircom are cheaper, then HE showed you eircom's pre-VAT price, and Esat's after VAT price.

As for firewalling....well firewalling at the server end means that a) Eircom are monitoring your network traffic (not a big deal, they have to do it for cap purposes anyway) and b) are essentially restricting your service by blocking certain ports. But they're not doing it.

Originally posted by sceptre
Oh I should highlight this: Eircom do diddly about viruses on their network. That's the reason (along with individual mail users doing diddly about it as well) the mail queues have been crazy for the past month - it's been so clogged with blaster and other nasties that real mail is having problems getting through.

In fairness, this was done to death before, and it's not really Eircom's responsibility to make sure users are protected from their own ignorance. However, they are working on a solution as we speak.

My brother used to live with a guy who was on the winback team, and I couldn't believe the bull that used to come out of his mouth to me, even when not on the hard sell. I said it before - once you start paying big commission to people, they lose all respect for the customer, and will do anything to get them back. It's only compounded when management turn a blind eye to downright lying, and plead ignorance when appraoched on it.

eth0_

Originally posted by Thargy

Onthe freebie he had a very weird argument. He said IOL give Norton Firewall out free because they had been having 'security issues' on their service...whereas Eircom don't because (get this) the anti-virus firewall is on 'your server account at our end'.

He hasn't a clue. Go with IOL, or at a stretch, UTV (they're being messed around by their provider and are in the sh1ts a little).
Also, what he said amount to slander of Esat....didn't get his name did you? :-)

oscarBravo

Originally posted by Hal1
Interesting, a typo im sure hehe

I'm not so sure - I average 1-1.5G a month on 64k, and I don't play online games - most of my online time is spent browsing. I do a fairish bit of downloading, but most of that is apt-getting Debian updates.

crawler

Thargy - if you live in Lucan , west Dublin etc please dont forget poor little ntl

€40 per month for 600kbps down - cap 1GB per day ; 20:1 contention

Crawler skates on the edge of pimping......!

vibe666

and maybe even irishbroadband if you can get line of sight to one of their masts. (worth looking at all options).

Raskolnikov

Originally posted by Hal1
Interesting, a typo im sure hehe

Downloading at 5.1 k/b's per second, almost continuously for 180 hours a month I downloaded 3 gig's. These Linux distros are awfully big these days

sceptre

Originally posted by seamus
In fairness, this was done to death before, and it's not really Eircom's responsibility to make sure users are protected from their own ignorance.

Oh you're right - it's not. Assuming that Thargy has reported that bit of the conversation correctly though, the guy seemed to imply that they're doing this.

Urban Weigl

Eircom have been lying to get people to switch to their service for a long time. For example when UTV first offered their "flat-rate" service, they were calling up people saying that they were now cheaper and had changed, and switched them back! Guess what? That's right, the 200 euro/month phone bills returned with no refunds!

IOL Broadband is 49.49 (inc. VAT) per month, Eircom is 54.45 (inc. VAT) per month. That is a 5 euro saving.

Not to mention the cap on IOL is twice as big.

Honestly, with all the false advertising and blatent lying Eircom have been doing...

Edit: If you can get NTL (cable) or Irishbroadband (wireless), and free yourself from the Eircom line (saving 22 euros/month line rental as well!)

Pricing for Irish Broadband is available here: http://www.irishbroadband.ie/htmdocs/bb_at_home/pricing.htm

Thargy

Folks I'm overwhelmed...you've been great!
I honestly gave you the facts on what the Eircom guy told me...and yes, I'm amazed at his gall. He put on a very good act regarding the VAT issue. He actually had me convinced the figures had been massaged by IOL. If he was actually not aware of the facts about the price difference then he was ill prepared to sell his product.

I'm not in the Irish Broadband wireless coverage area, nor am I able to get NTL here in Malahide. I'm currently using the UTVinternet FRIACO service but I'm not having a good experience...lots of disconnects and difficulty connecting. I don't feel inclined to try out their BB service because of that.

So its Eircom or IOL...and the winner is....

IOL:D

Thanks for the help!

Urban Weigl

Be sure to let us know how it goes and when you get your connection. Good luck!

Falkorre

I just converted to IOL BB,
gotta say, I love it.

If I had to complain about somthing it would be they took forever to get me up and running, they kept telling me they were waiting for €ircon to "turn on my line"..... after 14 days I was seriously pissed, so I rang the cust service guy whom Id been naggin an he said OTR to get onto €eircon wholesale head office.

I did an got the usual "we dont deal with that here" bumf, but after ringing back many times and blagging my way to a managers extension, and talking to her like she was my oldest friend, (hehehe degree in psych comes in handy at times she phoned me back to tell me my line *had* in fact been enabled for 6 days!!

This meant I could phone back iol an inform them, I was connected within 2 hours, (had my ethernet own modem etc) ....

since that day tho, no complaints, great speed, no major setup niggles, just the usual installation of modem and settings crap.

B

Morale of the story is, if ur not connected in 10 days like they state, get on their ass an dont let go!

vibe666

Originally posted by Thargy
but I'm not having a good experience...lots of disconnects and difficulty connecting.

if you can't maintain a connection, the most likely cause is a ****ty line and if thats the case you're not likely to pass the pre-qual test for dsl. have you tried to get the test done yet out of curiosity?

you can get it done at the eircom website as long as you know your phone bill account number. its not the be all and end all of tests, but it will give you an idea.

neverhappen

Originally posted by Dawntreader
I just converted to IOL BB,
gotta say, I love it.
...
This meant I could phone back iol an inform them, I was connected within 2 hours, (had my ethernet own modem etc) ....

since that day tho, no complaints, great speed, no major setup niggles, just the usual installation of modem and settings crap.

any ideas if this, from the iol broadband faq, is enforced or enforceable - if you use your own modem you can do what you like, no ?

---

Can you use from more then 1 computer?
No the account can only be used from one computer. This is due to the fact that it is a single IP address and USB connection.

---

it also says that its not dynamic ip with no mention of the availability of a fixed one.. according to their website, utv will provide a fixed ip for eu5/month extra (so it must be in the wholesale product available from eircom)...

---

Is it a fixed IP?
No, the product is set up with dynamic IP Addressing. This means that every time you open your browser you will be allocated a different IP address for the duration of that session. When the session ends the IP Address is removed.

---

Urban Weigl

USB only supports a single computer at a time, though you should be able to share the internet connection through Windows across your network.

Alternatively, purchase an Ethernet ADSL modem with built in router. A lot of people here seem to use D-Link ADSL routers.

Falkorre

Got the Zoom ADSL X4 ethernet / usb / router combi ;0)
Once set up is luvverly an simple windows seems to like it too
I use 2 pcs, with ethernet, works perfectly.

B

yellum

Originally posted by Dawntreader
I just converted to IOL BB,
gotta say, I love it.

If I had to complain about somthing it would be they took forever to get me up and running, they kept telling me they were waiting for €ircon to "turn on my line".....

Those assholes in iol are trying the same thing with me. Blaming Eircon. I rang three times this week and on Friday I asked them to email me the exact reasoning behind the delay and dates when they allegedly got on to Eircom and how long they were waiting so far as I was going to forward this to comreg. Of course they never did, so I'm going to be very rude Monday to whoever picks up.

Venom

I went with Netsourse and have been very happy with them so far. Good d/l speeds with no hassle setup and useage.

They are a bunch of lying rats in requards to there "uncapped" home package which is in fact a 16GB cap per month, but its the best deal of the 3 main companies in my eyes.

spongebob

Originally posted by yellum
Those assholes in iol are trying the same thing with me. Blaming Eircon. I rang three times this week and on Friday I asked them to email me the exact reasoning behind the delay and dates when they allegedly got on to Eircom and how long they were waiting so far as I was going to forward this to comreg. Of course they never did, so I'm going to be very rude Monday to whoever picks up.

If they have not sorted it and given you all the information you requested by Now then you mail to their head of Customer service who is angela.keegan@esat.com .

M

seamus

Originally posted by sceptre
Oh you're right - it's not. Assuming that Thargy has reported that bit of the conversation correctly though, the guy seemed to imply that they're doing this.

Sorry to drag this OT, and go back a few steps.....
Eircom will be releasing a pay-per-account virus scanning service for eicom.net email users in the new year

yellum

Originally posted by Muck
If they have not sorted it and given you all the information you requested by Now then you mail to their head of Customer service who is angela.keegan@esat.com .

M

Muck send me your christmas wishlist, I owe you.

Woden

i've also been looking at broadband options taking into account IBB also as i'm within range however

eircoms came is too low for me

i've heard bad things about netsource

utv means i have to switch all phone calls over to them IIRC

this leaves me with IOL and IBB. However due to the pure fact that theres no set up cost with IOL i'm probably going to go with that, i've also heard IBB don't have great pings.

Plus i'm on eircom's flatrate 30 a month at the moment. i've managed to convince the mother to give me a fiver towards BB on the basis it will free up the phone line and another fiver from the g/f to get her music

net cost to me an extra 10 euros it seems like the way forward.

just something else to note i hear people mention that iol's bb cap includes upload and download incase anyone isn't aware of this.

also does anyone know the penalty for cancelling the contract before your time is up?

cheers

data

seamus

Originally posted by Dataisgod

also does anyone know the penalty for cancelling the contract before your time is up?

cheers

data

For eircom flatrate?

There's no charge, but when you cancel, any 1893 internet calls you've made between your last bill date and the day you cancel will be charged at full rate. So if you're billed two monthly and have used up 300 hours already, you'll find yourself with some pretty hefty phone bills (€230 minimum in that case). Best bet is to cancel just after you receive a bill.

Woden

Originally posted by seamus
For eircom flatrate?

There's no charge, but when you cancel, any 1893 internet calls you've made between your last bill date and the day you cancel will be charged at full rate. So if you're billed two monthly and have used up 300 hours already, you'll find yourself with some pretty hefty phone bills (€230 minimum in that case). Best bet is to cancel just after you receive a bill.

i originally meant for cancelling the broadband but thanks for this info its extremely useful.

i was gonna ring them up and say ok i've been on this since nov 8th or something just bill me €30 for this month and from december onwards i'll go back to 1892 until the bb is installed and ready to go. it doesn't work like that no?

seamus

Originally posted by Dataisgod
i originally meant for cancelling the broadband but thanks for this info its extremely useful.

i was gonna ring them up and say ok i've been on this since nov 8th or something just bill me €30 for this month and from december onwards i'll go back to 1892 until the bb is installed and ready to go. it doesn't work like that no?

Nope.

Once it's cancelled, you shouldn't (that's a very BIG shouldn't) be billed any flatrate charges, instead, all your internet charges since the 8th of november will be charged at normal rates. If, for example, your next bill date is the start of January, it may be cheaper to be charged the €30 through December, even though you haven't made any 56K calls, since you may have made a couple of hundred €'s worth of calls in November.

I like the eircom model, since there's no contract, but it has two big flaws (read: money spinners). If you cancel a week before your bill date, you get a big whopping charge on your phone bill. If you're billed two monthly, and sign up for, say the Anytime package, one week before your bill date, then you will pay €60 on your next bill, and have one week to use up 300 hours of internet time. Of course, since there's a 12-hour cutoff in any 24, the most you can possibly use out of that 300 hours is 84.....go figure.

AFAIK, eircom, UTV and IOL's broadband contracts make you pay the remainder of the year's rental if you cancel halfway through the contract.

Woden

right i've checked my last bill and it was about 1 month ago the 21st october so i presume i won't be getting a bill till around xmas. so i figure i will get charged €60 on this bill for the flat rate, for november and december does this figure?

seamus

Originally posted by Dataisgod
right i've checked my last bill and it was about 1 month ago the 21st october so i presume i won't be getting a bill till around xmas. so i figure i will get charged €60 on this bill for the flat rate, for november and december does this figure?

Yep. €59.98 to be precise