Stolen Mobiles

Mr E

The country's three mobile phone providers are to introduce a security system which means stolen phones cannot be used.

The system will enable the providers to block handsets of reported stolen phones from use across all networks using a central anti-theft database of identification numbers exclusive to each handset.

Vodafone, O2 and Meteor have been putting the service in place for a year and the service will be available in a few weeks, once the providers link up their databases.

It is estimated that more than 2,000 mobile phones are stolen in Ireland every week. Gardaí estimate that 60% of all stolen personal items are mobile phones.

Do you think it will STOP knackers nicking you mobile phone? Whats to stop them selling it on before its been blocked?

I reckon this security system is more useful for large thefts from warehouses or mobile phone shops......

- Dave.

BrianD

I think it will take a while before the new system actually does make a difference. Once people know that a dodgy phone may no longer function they will less likely to buy it and thus thieves will move onto something else. For example, it's rare that car stereos are stolen as nearly every car has one fitted and there is no buyers market for thieves. Mobile phones have become the modern day "car stereos". What will be next?

As an aside, it is also good to register online with your mobile operator and to have your own voicemail password. My brother had his mobile (pay as you go) stolen and when he checked online he discovered that the cheeky thief had topped up his credit. My brother was able to send a number of webtexts to the thief and then purchased a number of ringtones and logos using up the thiefs credit! He also changed the voicemail greeting to state that the phone was stolen. After the thief's credit was exhausted he cancelled the number. He never got the phone back but at least got some satisfaction!

madmoe

Bout time they got this in place, probably one of the LAST countried in Europe to do it!!

Will work if the IMEI CANNOT be re-programmed which is supposed to be very hard to do on most NEW phones! The older ones will then be top of the knackers list HOPEFULLY

The Corinthian

I wonder if the operators will use the same system to disable the phones of customers who they're cutting off for breach of contact or non-payment of bills..?

vibe666

I reckon this will stop (or at least slow down) the oppotunistic phone thieves who pray on pissed people who leave their phones sitting on the bar down the pub, but it's not going to stop the organised operations.

blocking the phone is done through IMEI number which is individual to each phone. most phones up until now have this number in the main eeprom which can be reprogrammed easily using standard cables available over the net for £30 or less.

newer phones have the IMEI no. hardcoded into a seperate write once chip on the phone which cannot be changed by software.

the problem is that phone hackers out there have already got a little network up and running which allows people to buy new chips and write new IMEI no's to them and then replace the one on the phoe with a little bit opf soldering skill.

a good case in point, is the Siemens SL55 (the tiny little slidy red or black one) which was designed specifically to combat this type pf phone piracy.

a little bit of serching on the net will give you everything you need to unblock any handset (even the newest ones) and make them look like a completely new one.

as usual theofficial technology merchants are only half a step in front of the black market.

my favourite is still the team who spent 6 months after the xbox was hacked making it 'hack proof' for the next revision only to have the code cracked 2 weeks after they released it.

BrianD

There's no doubt that all of these safeguards can be bypassed in time. However, I believe that most phone theft is opportunistic and the attraction for thieves is that a quick sale can be made often without delay or any expense to the thief. If the thief has to bring the phone to a specialist in the "underworld" for re-programming then this is going to cost him in time and money and lessen the attraction.

As some one else pointed out, older phones can be reprogrammed easily enough - but in todays world where mobile phone penetration has reached saturation point and where new phone sales are being driven by upgrading your handset who wants an old handset? There will probably be a market for high end hansets stolen to order where it will be worthwhile to have the phone totally reprogrammed.

BTW is the IMEI is unique to the phone and the operators have a database of existing IMEI's? How does the thief generate a new IMEi that is accepable to the mobile operators? It is difficult to generate a fake credit card number as most numbers have an inbuilt check sum, is this the case with IMEIs?

MrVestek

Well lets say for instance the IMEI is reprogrammed to 000000000000 then it'll be accepted by the network, as this is considered blank, or a faulty phone, but is still accepted.

*snip*

This isn't new however, it's been in affect for the past 2 years or so. I remember a mate of mine got a phone call off some angry arab guy claiming that he stole his phone. He must have dialed the wrong number, anyways he kept ringing my mate and pestering him, telling him he wanted his phone back and that if he found him he'd kill him... yadda yadda. Anyways my mate woke up the next day to find his phone useless, on any network, as it was an unlocked phone... So the danger with this new service is that people will report fake thefts just to feck with people and piss them off.

BrianD

Well it does sound like that your mate did have a dodgy phone! Even if the caller did have a wrong number what's the chances of him guessing the IMEI number? Especially when he would have to know the make of phone your friend had! In any case, I am sure each mobile has a proceedure for blacklisting an IMEI number that does not allow an anonymous caller request a number be blocked.

Even if an IMEI number is set to 000000000000 will the network not simply reject it or at least trigger an alarm? Every phone logs onto a network using its IMEI number so a phone without an IMEI must be considered as highly suspect!

jesus_thats_gre

Over time, it will gradually cause mobile phone theft to drop. It cant possibly make it any worse in all fairness... Pretty straight forward in my opinion.

Peace

TBM, where is the source for this article. I'm writing an essay at the moment and i could use this information and maybe get 1/2 a page ouyt of it......shmoooaaaa!!

I vopte that it will reduce the theft of phones but not for a while.
Knackers will continue stealing the phones in the hope of being able to sell thme to unsuspection tossers. But it will reduce the teft rate eventually.

BrianD

There is a story in most of the Irish national dailies - The Irish Times and Irish Independent. Today being 10 Nov.

This web page tells what the numbers mean in your 15 digit IMEI:

http://www.accesscomms.com.au/imei.htm

This page will analyse your IMEI:

http://www.numberingplans.com/index.php?goto=imei

Don't blame me if your phone gets hijacked by dodgy sorts!

jesus_thats_gre

It works using the EIR (Equipement Identity Register) component on the Operator providers core network. Its a database of all devices permitted to access their network, based mostly on IMEI numbers.

Hobart

Originally posted by BrianD
Well it does sound like that your mate did have a dodgy phone! Even if the caller did have a wrong number what's the chances of him guessing the IMEI number?

You don't have to know the IMEI number to have a phone blocked. Your Network Operator will get that from the EIR as Jesus just said and block it.

Mr E

Originally posted by Peace
TBM, where is the source for this article. I'm writing an essay at the moment and i could use this information and maybe get 1/2 a page ouyt of it......shmoooaaaa!!

I vopte that it will reduce the theft of phones but not for a while.
Knackers will continue stealing the phones in the hope of being able to sell thme to unsuspection tossers. But it will reduce the teft rate eventually.

Todays Irish Examiner Breaking News page. There isn't much info there.... I imagine most papers will cover it properly tomorrow.

http://www.examiner.ie/breaking
(Ireland Latest, 9.04am)

- Dave.

BrianD

Hobart, I view Achilles story as a bit of an urban myth. I simply do not believe that:

An operator would remove an IMEI without a full written declaration from the subscriber who states his phone has been stolel/lost. You simply can't fake a theft to "piss someone off"!

If the IMEI is active that the operator does not make an attempt to contact the current user by voice or text to explain what is happening.

We haven't heard what happened next. Surely, after being blocked from the network "the friend" would have contacted his/her operator... unless he/she had good reason not to!!

Furthermore, my understanding is that up to now unless you could provide the IMEI the operators were reluctant to block the phone.

Thanx 4 The Fish

Originally posted by BrianD
Hobart, I view Achilles story as a bit of an urban myth. I simply do not believe that:

An operator would remove an IMEI without a full written declaration from the subscriber who states his phone has been stolel/lost. You simply can't fake a theft to "piss someone off"!

If the IMEI is active that the operator does not make an attempt to contact the current user by voice or text to explain what is happening.

I rang vodafone and they blocked my phone for me after I told them that it was stolen. No written statement, no nothing.

BrianD

Blocking your subscriber number or blocking the IMEI?

Of course establishing ownership of the SIM number does not necessarily establish ownership of the phone that contains it.

Anytime I have talked to Vodafone they have asked me various security questions to establish my identity. Perhaps, permission is not required in writing if your ID can be established over the phone. This I can accept.

In the case of Achilles friend, he was obviously able to establish his ownership of the handset over the phone. I remain unconvinced.

MrVestek

Right ok, i was there, and no im not making it up, but hell if you dont wanna believe me that's your decision to make. Anyways i was there the next morning, after getting berated with these calls, the phone tried for about 5 minutes to connect to the network then always replied with 'Sim Registration Failed'. With any sim card he tried in the phone, so, the logical conclusion is somehow, and im not sure how as i dont know whoever the guy was, managed to convince the o2 opperator it was stolen. By the way this was back when o2 was Esat Digiphone. So wethert that makes any different i dunno... Oh and by the way the reason he didn't ring up about it was because his mother bought him a new phone 2 days later because of what had happened. I can see the flaw in the story myself... i thought at the time it didn't ad up too but, i dunno that's what happened.

Armadillo

Would it be a good idea if 'joe public' could ring a number and give the IMEI of a phone that he is potentially going to buy. If it shows up on the IMEI database as being stolen, then he walks away from the deal and can possibly report it to authorities.

MrVestek

That's a good idea, but at the same time not many people bother to report it stolen. I know personally ive never done it and i've had a phone stolen on me twice. I know of other people who have too but just dont bother. First of all not many people know their own IMEI number anyways so even if they did report it they wouldnt be able to block it, well on the old system anyways, on the new one i'd say it'd be alot easier.

Armadillo

I wonder if the network (service) providers can link a mobile number with the IMEI and if they keep a record of the date a sim was used in a particular phone......

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by dodger
I wonder if the network (service) providers can link a mobile number with the IMEI and if they keep a record of the date a sim was used in a particular phone......

Everytime you make a call, alot of info is sent during the initiation of the call, including the IMEI.. So yes, they have to keep this info my law.

BrianD

Yes, an unfortunate fact of life - spurred on by 9/11- is that telecomunications providers whether mobile, Internet or fixed line are obliged to keep detailed records of call traffic for up to 3 years. Totally unnecessary and dosn't stop crime or terrorism!

BrianD

Achille, I don't doubt that you are accurately reporting what your friend told you! I just find his/her story a bit odd! It seems that this happened in the days before people knew they could block their SIM or IMEI so it would have almost been exceptional that a number/phone would have been blocked. Why would his mother have bought him a phone if he already had one? Surely she would have bought her darling some credit ... unless she didn't know he had a phone!?? The only way he could have convinced O2/Digifone to block the SIM/IMEI is by convincing them that he was the legitamate owner of the SIM or Phone. You're right it dosn't add up!

Personally, I think you are mad if you do not report anything that is stolen from you! I had 30 CDs stolen from my car and after reporting the theft (and a tip off) I was able to retrieve almost 20 of them from a shop with two Gardai standing behind me!

Hobart

You do not have to know your IMEI number. That information is transferred to the operator when you logon to the network. The technology to "block" a phone has been around for years. Irish operators are just late in implmenting it (the fact that it's a cost for them and a non-profit making piece of software, of course, has nothing got to do with the fact that they have not installed it for years. It's also ironis that an Irish company (now LogicaCMG) actually invented it.

Secondly I know for a fact that Vodaphone would block the IMEI, on the basis of certain criteria (Name of Sub, recently dialled no etc....).

This can be done on the basis of a phone call. The SIM can be automatically setup to divert to a landline or V/Mail. Don't know about voice calls in the US but I do know that MO are "required" to keep records of SMS traffic for 3 months. The reason I have required in commas is because I know that they do not, at the moment. The FBI specified that they should, post 9/11. But the software still is not implemented.

(Any of the ex-Logica guys will tell you about CALEA if they want)

Capt'n Midnight

So no sign of them sending "STOLEN" texts to the phones every five minutes...

MrVestek

Brian, it has nothing got to do with 'what my friend told me'. I was there when he got the phone call, and subsequently when his phone was disconnected. His mother bought him the new phone cus he told her that the one he had wouldn't work anymore on any network, which was true... This was back in the day when the 3310 was the latest thing like...

Imposter

Surely unregistered prepaid phones are the only phones that could possibly be open to the abuse of this information. Then if the networks didn't block unregistered prepaids when someone claimed they were stolen it would mean more people would possibly register the phones which would be of benefit to the networks.

BrianD

Achille, I'm sure he got the calls and got disconnected but did he ever say where he got the phone? It seems to be pretty apparent that this stranger was in the right and able to establish ownership of it to enable it to be blocked. If it was back in the Digifone era it would have been unusual enough for a phone to be completely blocked. Furthermore, If I was in the right I would have kicked up a right rumpus with my operator...did he ever follow it up?

On the topic of abuse, I can see the possibility that a good friend of girl/boy friend could conceivably have enough of your personal info to get around the security questions that you might be asked by customer service. But a complete stranger???

I note in the UK they are running TV adverts promoting their national EIR database and safe useage of your phone in public.

MrVestek

I dunno, but ya see the thing is, whoever it was that called him up, said he'd stolen it from him two days ago. But the mate of mine had the phone for about 3 months. The plot thickens i know... as i said earlier i thought it was weird myself.

BrianD

The plot is certainly of the thick variety! Anychance, you'd get your mate to find out what did happen? Did he have the phone registered in his name and, if so, should the mobile operator not of followed it up? I mean it's one thing for the operator to cancel the SIM (to prevent any further loss to the subscriber) but its a different matter for them to render the phone useless especially when, at the time, the network could only bar an IMEI from its own network.

Faltermyer

I work for one of the Networks.

We have had an EIR for approx 6-8months now. What is being reported in the papers in the CEIR(Central Equipment Identity Register). i.e. It is linked between the 3networks.

The only phone that we will block is the phone that is registered as the handset our customer purchased when joining the network, if indeed they purchased a phone.

Whether Post-Paid or Pre-Paid, requirements to EIR-Blacklist a handset or Suspend/block a subscriber are the same, it comes under the Data Protection Act once they are registered regardless of the query, whether the call is to block a handset, give a call history or help with top up.

If anyone doesnt follow this procedure(which I realise is certainly the case a lot of the time, then I suggest you make a complaint, its your phone/money/info afterall! - on the other hand, dont go balistic at the operator if he/she wont deal with you because its a SIM you got off your mother/cousin/friend and its still registered to them)

That is: 3pieces of info from a Subscribers a/c. Name, Address, and either: Date of Birth, PIN or Password(as chosen at registration-you can specify that no call be dealt with on your line without this being verified if you wish).

For an unregistered Pre-Paid number, procedure is to verify 3 numbers dialed in first month of use, or first week if under a month old. Obviously, these will be among the numbers the customer dials regularly.

One other point of note, is that the CEIR only applies to phones stolen since it was introduced about a month back. Phones stolen previous to that will still be on their respective networks own EIR if it was active at the time of theft. Afaik, there are no plans to add all these handsets to the CEIR, or to add handsets stolen previous to the EIR's to the system as it would be too expensive resources/timewise with very little benefit at this stage.

Bren

sceptre

Interesting extra info there Bren, thanks for that

Faltermyer

No bother.

Just thought it would be good to put some facts amongst the hearsay.

Stephen

So how are sim-free phones handled by the EIR? Take me for instance, I'm on an O2 contract, with which I got a Nokia 8310. I've since bought a Sony Ericsson T610 from the UK and sold on the 8310. When I use the network with the new phone does the IMEI automatically get associated with my number or what?

Faltermyer

No, well not really...

It would be possible to see what IMEI you are using, but it does not get "Linked" or "Logged" with your account in any way. So if you called after your phone being stolen, Only your SIM could be blocked.

So basicly, phones not purchased directly from the Network are not handled by the EIRs/CEIR.

Though I suppose some scheme could be introduced whereby if you can provide proof of purchase it could be added...?

BrianD

Useful info Bren and clarifys many things that all of were not definite on here.

In regard to SIM free phones - I think if you have registered online with your operator you can input your handset and IMEI details there. This means that in theory your SIM, IMEi and user details should be linked.

Faltermyer

Im not sure on the other networks but our online registration system does not feature an IMEI field.

I was with one of the other networks for 4&1/2 yrs before I started working here, but that was prior to even the EIR's, and I joined them before the days of online registration.

BrianD

My Vodafone lets you register and update your handset details online. When you upgrade you need to amend your details.

oneweb

I voted yes, but it'll only happen if everybody KNOWS about the facility, REPORTS the theft immediately, and doesn't take the "ah sure I can always just get a new one".

If most of the thefts were reported and those phones blocked, the thieves would tire of their wasted efforts.

jesus_thats_gre

You can effectively barr any handset that has been used on your acccount. Whether you know your IMEI is also irrelevent.

The procedure to block your phone is as follows (may vary slightly depending on operator). You call your operator, you tell them you wanna block your handset and you verify whatever personal details with them. If you know the IMEI number of your handset all the better, if not, they can find it.

You give them your IMEI, they ask you for a date of the last time you used that phone over 48 hours ago. They check the IMEI against call logs on that date and that verifies the IMEI. If will not work if you used your sim in more than one handset that day however, so must have been using that handset for a full 24 hour period.

If you do not know the IMEI, simply give them a date that you last used your phone and they will be able to extract your IMEI from their call logs. The same rule applies, you can only being using the one handset for the 24 hours of that day.

Whether a handset was purchased sim free, from another operator and so on makes no difference again.