Arse Kiev

Pepe LeFrits

Arse Kiev, hahahaha.

Anyway, 1-0. Woo!

The dream is still alive, for now...

BKtje

Jammy gits is all i can say

Still good to see Arsenal still in with a chance, wonder if they can do a Newcastle

DEG viper

I doubt it they were lucky to break down the kiev defence. but they wont be so lucky against inter as they cant go all out attack against the likes of vieri, recoba and emre

jank

well inter cant really sit back like kiev did they have to come forward and try to win this one after all they are the home team and that could work in arsenal's favour(remember rome last season)

what a match last night was beginning to give up hope but up comes cole and the rest is history

gilberto played really well last night for once
pires too but needs to finish off those mazy runs of his
lungdberg is getting back to his best but he needs to regan his fitness
bergkamp im afraid is past it they should replace him
henry well every where he went there was at least 2 players on him all night very fustrating for him

but man of the match for me was toure
what a player he is becoming a perfect partner for campbell
one of the best 250,000 aresnal has ever spent (ronaldo 12 1/2 million hahaha) and i can see him becoming a regular there for the next few seasons so long he keeps it up and keeps learning he's only 22 or 21 i think.


however i keep hearing rumors that mexes (sp?) is one his way in january so where will that leave him wenger might even move him to cm as a DM as viera gets injured alot recently anyway

think we can still do it as the group is still really tight second place looks a real possiblility now and who knows after that

vorbis

we're going all the way now.

eirebhoy

Originally posted by jank
however i keep hearing rumors that mexes (sp?) is one his way in january so where will that leave him wenger might even move him to cm as a DM as viera gets injured alot recently anyway

Liverpool and United are also interested in him and I think he'll go to United.

jank

actually think we dont need a denfender

we need a striker to help out henry i feel so sorry for him cause everybody looks to him to carry the team

we need a vieri type player strong in the box and who is also fast and a poacher of goals hint hint horseface would do quite nicely!!

Hyzepher

We need Laarson (sp?)

Hyzepher

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by eireboy
Liverpool and United are also interested in him and I think he'll go to United.

I would agree, Liverpool and United could afford him, Arsenal's finances are not the healthiest. With Bounsong and Cisse rumoured to be coming to Liverpool, if they got Mexes as well, that would be whole spine of Auxerre moving.. That would be good business.

mr_angry

I love to hear all the newfound optimism, but I'm afraid I don't share it. Last night was a typical Arsenal-In-Europe performance. It was like watching paint dry, in a kind of nightmarish way. The old "play everything through the middle" tactic wasn't working, and once again, we had no Plan B. The only difference is that we got away with it.

I think one of the problems is that we are afraid of teams in Europe breaking against us. In the Premiership, we're happy to leave strikers one-on-one with Campbell and Toure - they'll handle it. But in Europe, the strikers are more than good enough to beat them every time, and so we don't commit to the same level. In Europe, you just have to double-mark attacking players, or you're f*cked.

I think the Inter match might work in Arsenal's favour. Inter aren't playing well, and for once, we wont be expected to win. Without that kind of pressure, I think we'll see a much better Arsenal performance. Of course, you still have the "double-marking" problem with Vieri and Recoba, but I think we'll be doing most of our attacking on the break anyway, and the Inter defence isn't that great.

With a bit of luck, Roque Junior will make a shock move to Inter before the game, and line up against us! Then we can have another win like that against Leeds on Saturday!

mr_angry

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
I would agree, Liverpool and United could afford him, Arsenal's finances are not the healthiest. With Bounsong and Cisse rumoured to be coming to Liverpool, if they got Mexes as well, that would be whole spine of Auxerre moving.. That would be good business.

On the other hand, he might look at "top of the league" against "mid-table obscurity". Just a thought.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by mr_angry4
On the other hand, he might look at "top of the league" against "mid-table obscurity". Just a thought.

I am not disputing that Arsenal are the team of the moment, thats irrelevent if they dont actually have enough money to table a bid... I would also assume that a world class defender would have more forsight than to choose what team he moves too purely on recent form.

mr_angry

How much form do you think would be an appropriate measurement? I think its clear that many players value Champions League Qualification quite highly. Would 6 years of consistent form make a difference in a players' mind?

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by mr_angry4
How much form do you think would be an appropriate measurement? I think its clear that many players value Champions League Qualification quite highly. Would 6 years of consistent form make a difference in a players' mind?

Valid point, but it would be useful if there was some progression. Arsenal have failed to perform even remotely well in the Champion League. You previous post sums it up...

I love to hear all the newfound optimism, but I'm afraid I don't share it. Last night was a typical Arsenal-In-Europe performance. It was like watching paint dry, in a kind of nightmarish way. The old "play everything through the middle" tactic wasn't working, and once again, we had no Plan B. The only difference is that we got away with it.

Dustaz

Nice to see the gunners getting a result at last, altho the match itself was worrying. Like has been said, it was more of the same.

Still on a bit of a knife edge, but if Juve can do it then so can the arse:)

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by mr_angry4
I love to hear all the newfound optimism, but I'm afraid I don't share it. Last night was a typical Arsenal-In-Europe performance. It was like watching paint dry, in a kind of nightmarish way. The old "play everything through the middle" tactic wasn't working, and once again, we had no Plan B. The only difference is that we got away with it.

I think one of the problems is that we are afraid of teams in Europe breaking against us. In the Premiership, we're happy to leave strikers one-on-one with Campbell and Toure - they'll handle it. But in Europe, the strikers are more than good enough to beat them every time, and so we don't commit to the same level. In Europe, you just have to double-mark attacking players, or you're f*cked.

I think the Inter match might work in Arsenal's favour. Inter aren't playing well, and for once, we wont be expected to win. Without that kind of pressure, I think we'll see a much better Arsenal performance. Of course, you still have the "double-marking" problem with Vieri and Recoba, but I think we'll be doing most of our attacking on the break anyway, and the Inter defence isn't that great.

With a bit of luck, Roque Junior will make a shock move to Inter before the game, and line up against us! Then we can have another win like that against Leeds on Saturday!

I will say it again. How many seasons can this go on before Wenger's abilities as a manager are brought into question. Arsenal have consistently been at the top of their league but have constantly bombed out of Europe. Surely the board has aspirations to win the Champions League.

LizardKing

Yeah .. lets have a "Wenger Out" Thread

(Keep the heat off Houllier )

mr_angry

Yeah. Lets sack EVERY manager who doesn't win the Champions League! And how long can Fergie last with only one Champions League success? That's right - sack the lot of them! Houllier is the only sane man of the lot of them!


...




...



...

Wait a second...

Hyzepher

I am a life long Arsenal fan - seen the best and the worst over the years. This year is both worrying and optimistic for me at the moment.

Worrying because AW doesn't seem to 'get it' anymore. He seems to assume that the attacking element of the team is complete and seems to be more interested in the defense. I know our defense is far from brilliant but the foundations are there and they have been holding their own. The problem is that we have become predictable going forward against the better teams who have the skill to counteract it. In Europe teams know how to play us - TH gets no space, they know we will play to feet and they can deal with that all night long - the only thing they have to worry about is the quick break and they can counteract that by playing deep.

Some of our play last night showed that we CAN have a plan B - just keep TH in the middle and get the ball across - he is actually a good header of the ball. We need to get down the flanks in a tight game and get behind them, then cross with players arriving in the box - simple stuff. But our players seem to think they are above all that and what to score the 'pretty' goals.

However, I am also optimistic. We have the players to make a mark in Europe - we just need to be more tactically aware and be flexible to adjust our game when things aren't working out. The CL is not dead for us yet and I think Inter are in for a rude awakening in 3 weeks time - their style of play actually suits us better than the eastern europeans.

I still have hope of getting through but we need to sit back and rethink what our best strategy is

Hyzepher

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by LizardKing
Yeah .. lets have a "Wenger Out" Thread

I didn't mean to appear like I meant that. But you gotta wonder whether Arsenal will ever get it right in Europe. After 6 seasons they have only got to the Quarter Finals once I think. For the past 4 or 5 years United have been playing some of their best football in Europe, won the Champions League and will nearly always get to the last 8 at least. United changed their tactics for Europe and few years back and now play like this in the Premiership... In other words, United are more orientated towards the Champions League, so are Real. Arsenal have the league pretty mush nailed, but they struggle in the Champions League.

Pepe LeFrits

I'm mildly optimistic about the game in the San Siro. Arsenal are a counter-attacking team - the bigger pitch of the San Siro should suit them, and Inter will be under pressure to push forward which could afford Henry, Pires etc more space. Fingers crossed anyway.

I don't think their recent failures in Europe are too much of a concern at the moment, improving in the premiership should be their primary aim. Once Ashburton Grove is finished in a couple of seasons the financial boost should strengthen the team signficantly. If they still have Vieira, Henry and Wenger by then they should be in a good position to regularily win the PL and then they can concentrate on winning the CL.

Gangsta

Originally posted by kif
I'm mildly optimistic about the game in the San Siro. Arsenal are a counter-attacking team - the bigger pitch of the San Siro should suit them, and Inter will be under pressure to push forward which could afford Henry, Pires etc more space. Fingers crossed anyway.

I don't think their recent failures in Europe are too much of a concern at the moment, improving in the premiership should be their primary aim. Once Ashburton Grove is finished in a couple of seasons the financial boost should strengthen the team signficantly. If they still have Vieira, Henry and Wenger by then they should be in a good position to regularily win the PL and then they can concentrate on winning the CL.

best post of the thread.

Oswald Osbourne

Wednesdays win is just delaying the inevitable. Arsenal are the best team around at punishing 2nd rate defences (ie premiership defences) but put them up against any kind of team with skill and a backbone and they haven't got a clue.

Pepe LeFrits

Like Man Utd, Chelsea, Liverpool or Newcastle?

Oswald Osbourne

Absolutely!

Arsenal scored less than 13% of their total league goals last season against those four teams you mention. Compare it with ManU who scored 34% of their leagues goals last season against the four of Arse, Liverpool, Newcastle and Chelsea and you can really see the difference between a team that is adept at whipping minnows on a regular basis and a team that has the potential to beat the very best.

It goes for points as well. From teams ranked 6-20 last season Arsenal actually accumulated MORE points than the champions ManU last season. 67 compared to 63. But it was in the BIG games that Arsenal showed their true colours - only 11 points in 8 games compared to 20 for ManU.

jank

stats are not the answer to everything!!!

give us the same stats then but for the 2001-2002 season!!

bet the arse do a bit better than last year yea!!
so ur point is pointless cause they still did poor in europe that year!! explain that without your stats!

and why not give us the stats for this year so far too
oh forgot the website u got them from dont have them right

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by jank
stats are not the answer to everything!!!

No they're certainly not. But they can be used as indicators as to what is going on.

Originally posted by jank
give us the same stats then but for the 2001-2002 season!!

vs Top 5
1st Arsenal 17pts (16% of their goals)
2nd Liverpool 16pts (18% of their goals)

Originally posted by jank
bet the arse do a bit better than last year yea!!

Yep, they did - but just a bit. Their points total didn't match the 2002-03 winners and their strike ratio was even lower than the team that came second in 2001-02! Undoubtedly good enough to win the league but also enough to point out they hardly dominated it - as their reputation would have suggested that season.

Originally posted by jank
so ur point is pointless cause they still did poor in europe that year!! explain that without your stats!

In 2001-02 as in 2002-03 Arsenal came 3rd in their last 16 group. But you have to take into account the other teams that qualified from that group ahead of them.

In 2001-02 Arse came 3rd in their group to Bayer Leverkusen (a team that eventually reached the final) and to Dep.La Coruna (a side that had earlier beaten ManU TWICE back-to-back) and it's clear that they had landed in ubiquitous group of death that year

Compare it to 2002-03 where Arse again came 3rd this Time to Ajax and Valencia. Both of these two were knocked out in the very next round of the competition which in retrospect would indicated to me at least that Arse had landed in a easier group than the previous year yet still failed to improve on their previous years placing - something that would therefore coincide with their slight dip in form against the top 5 in the premiership for that season.

Originally posted by jank
and why not give us the stats for this year so far too
oh forgot the website u got them from dont have them right

And because you've missed what's going on you can't do stats based around final league position until the END OF THE SEASON because they are (as the name suggests) based on final league position :rolleyes: They aren't from some website either. They're based on a little thing called research and aritmetic.

Basic point of all this is that I'm NOT saying the Arse are a bad team (far from it). I'm just pointing out that a lot of their repuation for being cavalier ass-whupers is based on their ability to crush weaker teams with more ease and style than anyone else in the premiership. In the Champions League there aren't as many easy touches and Arsenal are finding that out on an annual basis.

jank

Originally posted by Oswald Osbourne
They aren't from some website either. They're based on a little thing called research and aritmetic.

your aritmetic!!!

well if its urs then im impressed by your perserverence but maybe your suited to a better stats game like basketball or the NFL

they love their stats

the best stat of all is Who is top of the League

you cant argue with that!!

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by jank
your aritmetic!!!

Your philistinism

Originally posted by jank
maybe your suited to a better stats game like basketball or the NFL
they love their stats

Why? I like football. Stats are just stats. If you don't like the numbers then just ignore them.

Originally posted by jank
the best stat of all is Who is top of the League

Sure it is ... if all you ever want to win is the league! No, the REAL best stat of all is who's winning the CHAMPIONS League. But then being an Arse supporter you'll might find that hard to comprehend.

Originally posted by jank
you cant argue with that!!

Just did.

jank

Originally posted by Oswald Osbourne
Your philistinism


Sure it is ... if all you ever want to win is the league! No, the REAL best stat of all is who's winning the CHAMPIONS League. But then being an Arse supporter you'll might find that hard to comprehend.


Just did.

oh ur like SOOOO clever bet it took u a week to come up with that come back!!

champs league well utd have the same amount of wins as nottingham forest so what does that say??

and in the recent future they have an amazing success rate of 1/11
great stat that!!


Your philistinism??
this is a football thread not a university discussion on the art of war!

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by jank
oh ur like SOOOO clever bet it took u a week to come up with that come back!!

That's right, it takes me an entire week to reply to you yet it take you less than 1 hour to reply back. Do you live in front of your computer by chance?

Originally posted by jank
champs league well utd have the same amount of wins as nottingham forest so what does that say??

It says they both have two more than Arsenal

Originally posted by jank
and in the recent future they have an amazing success rate of 1/11
great stat that!!

If you know about the 'recent future' then perhaps you should be living in a bookies instead of in front of your computer?

Originally posted by jank
Your philistinism??
this is a football thread not a university discussion on the art of war!

Clearly ....

jank

yawwwn

its boring and your going off topic!!!

could be here all night clearly your a 2 year old that likes to pick fights on a quiet sunday night how sad for u:rolleyes:

anyway thread closed
********************************************************************************************************

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by jank
Your philistinism??
this is a football thread not a university discussion on the art of war!

hahahaha, christ.

jank, just keep digging that hole.

Oswald: Statistics have to taken with a pinch of salt. There's so many more factors to be taken into it, before labelling Arsenal simply as clueless. In their title winning season the difference with Liverpool is extremely marginal, and last season... well they did finish 2nd for a reason. Doing well against the 'Top 5' this season though.

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by kif
Oswald: Statistics have to taken with a pinch of salt. There's so many more factors to be taken into it, before labelling Arsenal simply as clueless. In their title winning season the difference with Liverpool is extremely marginal, and last season... well they did finish 2nd for a reason. Doing well against the 'Top 5' this season though.

Absolutely! I'll be the first to accept that stats don't win competitions and there are more factors to be taken into account. I was just trying to show that by comparison to the top teams in the Premiership that we shouldn't be THAT surprised by Arsenals lack of dominance at the highest level.

As regards my clueless comment In regards to Arsenal : A team who has pretentions to be winning a competition such as the Champions League and then underachieves to the same degree year after year could quite reasonably be called clueless. Show me where Arsenal are learning from their failures in past seasons in Europe and are even gradually improving at that level and I'll take back my 'clueless' comment but until then I'll stand by it.

And yes no denying they are doing better this season againt the top 6 in the premiership too! Fair play to them. Perhaps that will equate to wins against Inter and Loko.Moscow in the next month?

//

Jank, you are an idiot. Crawl back under your rock and don't come back out til you realise you're not moderator ('thread closed' :rolleyes: )!

jank

who said i was a moderator!!??
but if u insist!!:D

********************thread closed******************************again!


ps. this thread was originally about kiev and arsenal!! so its long dead

inter arsenal will be coming real soon!:)

oh and ozzie dont call me an idiot again!!

and it was u that brought premership stats and the like into a CL thread

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by jank
ps. this thread was originally about kiev and arsenal!! so its long dead

It's alive as long as you keep coming back with your stupid ill-conceived retorts.

Originally posted by jank
oh and ozzie dont call me an idiot again!!

Would love not to. Just stop posting like one first.

Originally posted by jank
who said i was a moderator!!??
but if u insist!!:D
********************thread closed******************************again!

Idiot.

Anyway, good luck to Arse in the last 2 games. It's just a pity they have fans like you.

jank

Originally posted by Oswald Osbourne
It's alive as long as you keep coming back with your stupid ill-conceived retorts.


Would love not to. Just stop posting like one first.


Idiot.

Anyway, good luck to Arse in the last 2 games. It's just a pity they have fans like you.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Big Ears

so what we've learnt from the thread is man utd are gay arsenal are ok

pls close thread as it has no relavance to any1.

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by jank
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

*clap* *clap* ....... *clap*

Well done Jank.! Another sterling comeback from you

ShriekingSheet

Yawn.

Idiot!

jank

Originally posted by Oswald Osbourne
It's alive as long as you keep coming back with your stupid ill-conceived retorts.

seems ur the one that keeps coming back for more:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

anway onto the inter thread!:D

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=126834

Oswald Osbourne

Originally posted by jank
seems ur the one that keeps coming back for more:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Check it out! You made the intial reply to MY comments on this subject and you were also the one who dragged this from a reasonably respectful and intelligent discussion of opinions down to pure unrespectful rubbishing of well thought out opinions with your half-assed dismissals and throwaway comments. So not only did you create this pointless dialogue in the first place but also you were the one to drag this down to it's current level.

As such and no matter how many times we eventually end up trading back and forwards here ... you will ALWAYS be the one responsible for this situation and always resonsible for making the 'comeback' (or for eventually NOT making it). You don't need stats to absorb that much either.

Learn a bit of respect, cop yourself on and just let this one go.

jank

Originally posted by Oswald Osbourne


As such and no matter how many times we eventually end up trading back and forwards here ... you will ALWAYS be the one responsible for this situation and always resonsible for making the 'comeback' (or for eventually NOT making it). You don't need stats to absorb that much either.

Learn a bit of respect, cop yourself on and just let this one go.

lol:D
some people get really wouind up on these boards
take a chill pill i tried to end this ages ago
remember my thread closed comment which u took sooo personally well it still stands and i have made the effort to end it even started a new thread but noooo
ozzy has to have the last say of course:rolleyes:

ozzy grow up will ya and move on there is more to life than making comebacks and personal attacks against other members of the board community (called me an idiot twice and a philistin) u know nothing about me what i do or how clever or dumb i may be so wtf??

and just cause i have a rant now and again it is no excuse to call me that!

any mod out there please please please close this thread as its long dead

Big Ears

i agree please close the thread.(and for further notice yee 2 arsenal fans dont fight like this on other arsenal threads)

Pepe LeFrits

Originally posted by jank
lol:D
some people get really wouind up on these boards
take a chill pill i tried to end this ages ago
remember my thread closed comment which u took sooo personally well it still stands and i have made the effort to end it even started a new thread but noooo
ozzy has to have the last say of course:rolleyes:

ozzy grow up will ya and move on there is more to life than making comebacks and personal attacks against other members of the board community (called me an idiot twice and a philistin) u know nothing about me what i do or how clever or dumb i may be so wtf??

and just cause i have a rant now and again it is no excuse to call me that!

any mod out there please please please close this thread as its long dead

I'm an Arsenal fan... you're an Arsenal fan... you make me want to kill myself.

gandalf

Thread shut down.