Shop around

star gazer

It's so simple, how could we have missed it. All we have to do is shop around and there would be no rip-off ireland. In a sense it's really our fault for the prices in the shops.
The government are spending half a million on a 'price awareness' campaign to get people to go for the cheapest option. There is a certain logic to it, but is rip-off ireland really that simple?
The price of a pint is dictated by taxes, by the fact that not just anyone can set up a public house as well as all the other cost and cultural aspects. Proffessions have limited places for new entrants, to start up an insurance company takes a lot more than a loan from a bank and so many other industries have their own characteristics to prevent what would be substantial competition from happening. Substantial in the way people use the word competition, that prices would fall with more competition. Shopping around isn't going to solve these problems, but yet it is somehow our own responsibility that rip-off Ireland exists. Really?

Eurorunner

I believe that we do have to take (not all but..) a good proportion of the blame for not shopping around.

People dont shop around here as much as other europeans. Other europeans simply wouldnt pay what we pay for most products/services here.

There are exceptions where the government isnt doing its bit effectively.
eg. insurance..and other cartels.


I once had a 'buy irish' ideology but realise how misplaced this view was. Now its 'buy irish all things being equal' ie. if i have two products that are equal in value/quality, then (and only then) will i make a concious effort to buy the irish one.

Theres absolutely no point in supporting something thats not offering value/benefit...such thinking is flawed and doesnt help anyone in the long term.

star gazer

originally posted by eurorunner
I believe that we do have to take (not all but..) a good proportion of the blame for not shopping around.

Fair point, but if consumers are the only ones to change their behaviour and find the lowest price available, that will still leave them paying the highest prices in Europe in several areas where the government isn't doing it's job. By implicitly blaming the consumer with the advertising and then doing nothing itself, the government will simply reinforce the thinking in people's minds that there is really nothing they can do to change things with regard to price.

originally posted by eurorunner
I believe that we do have to take (not all but..) a good proportion of the blame for not shopping around.

well maybe if there aren't results forthcoming, shopping around for new ministers would be good.

Eurorunner

that will still leave them paying the highest prices in Europe in several areas where the government isn't doing it's job.

If we become more price concious, we're likely to put more pressure on government to act. Reality is that the vast majority of goods/services can be forced downwards by intelligent purchasing. I often see money poured down the drain by publicly funded advertising campaigns for various things, but the ad campaign on price awareness (which i saw last night on tv for the first time) is money well spent.

star gazer

If people work hard to change their habits and meticulously purchase the lowest priced product, the government will take credit (all governments do it) for the price reduction or price stability. This will take the pressure and the onus off both government and industries to act on increasing competition and competitive practices. This will incentivise industries to come together to control prices. Companies are profit making organisations at heart, you can't blame them, the government is supposed to be the people's advocate. Without government action to tackle prices, it is hypocritical to tell people to try harder on prices (implying it's their fault solely for high prices).

dmeehan

shopping around is basic common sense
i dont think it warrants a major advertising spend by the government. how many hospital beds etc would that money have been better spent on. mayge the govt should shop around for the best option to spend the money on

Eurorunner

shopping around is basic common sense. i dont think it warrants a major advertising spend by the government.

Well, you say its basic common sense..and i agree with you. So why is it that the irish have to defy logic:(
Normally, i am against many of these publicly funded 'awareness' campaign but in this case, it is necessary.

Without government action to tackle prices, it is hypocritical to tell people to try harder on prices (implying it's their fault solely for high prices).

I'm not implying that its soley their fault on prices, i'm SAYING its definitely mainly their fault;)
Do you want your local TD to come out and wipe your botty for you every time you take a dump....HYPOCRITICAL IS.......blaming the government for inaction when we ourselves cant motivate ourselves to save ourselves €€€!!

Imposter

Originally posted by star gazer
If people work hard to change their habits and meticulously purchase the lowest priced product, the government will take credit (all governments do it) for the price reduction or price stability.

If people meticulously purchase the lowest priced product the government will lose tax income as a lot of these purchases would be done on the internet from foreign countries.

Also I agree that an advertising campaign for this is a waste of money but why people must always bring up "but what about more hospital beds" into every discussion that concerns public spending is beyond me. The health service gets enough money, other areas need money too. The same sh1t was the reason behind not building a national stadium, and the spire and everything else that doesn't seem quite as serious as putting more money into the black hole that is health.

sceptre

Originally posted by Eurorunner
Well, you say its basic common sense..and i agree with you. So why is it that the irish have to defy logic:(

I'm just waiting for the "Why not tie your shoelaces firmly" and "Driving into people isn't cool" campaigns

spudulike

The health service gets enough money, other areas need money too

I agree - the problem with the Health service is severe inefficiencies. Time we spend the money more effectively - more Guards (though not the ones that do speec checks - the ones that take the scumbags off the streets !!!) etc.

Kell

I dont agree that we dont shop around enough. Eveyone knows the local Spar, Centra etc is going to be more expensive than Superquinn, Tesco etc, but besides Superquinn and Tesco, what else have we got? Naddah.

Inflation is rising partly because price of common goods is going up and up and up despite the fact that people arent earning as much as they did three years ago. For me, I cant understand how the fúck Tesco etc ecpect people to be able to afford basic shopping when the income just isnt there anymore.

Point a) My income hasnt dropped in the last twelve months. Last year I was pubbing three times a week. Right now, I am home four nights a week and have no more money than I did last year.

This prooves my point that the basic stuff that I buy has rocketed cost wise and my earnings havn't increased accordingly and I doubt if anyone elses have either.

As regards choice, I heard a rumour that Lidl were to open a store in Ballinteer offering more choice than the local Tesco and Superquinn, however locals objected to the planning permission on the basis that it might "lower the tone" of the area by attracting "unsavoury" elements of the public. Go figure.

Interestingly, I have also heard that Lidl stores must be under a certain square footage to get planning permission. Now if thats not blocking competition and choice from on hi, I dont know what is.

K-

IgnatiusJRiley

Originally posted by Imposter
why people must always bring up "but what about more hospital beds" into every discussion that concerns public spending is beyond me. The health service gets enough money, other areas need money too. The same sh1t was the reason behind not building a national stadium, and the spire and everything else that doesn't seem quite as serious as putting more money into the black hole that is health.

Couldn't agree more

star gazer

originally posted by eurorunner
HYPOCRITICAL IS.......blaming the government for inaction when we ourselves cant motivate ourselves to save ourselves €€€!!

don't believe in representative democracy?

The point is shopping around needs to happen in tandem with government action on competition, otherwise in key sectors people will keep banging their heads against brick walls and the movement will grind to a halt through frustration. What's the point in trying to impact on inflation when the government is responsible for most of the price rises?

Give the half million to the competition authority.

health could get twice as much money and give the same service, it has proved this in the last few years. :rolleyes:

Eurorunner

health could get twice as much money and give the same service, it has proved this in the last few years.

The health service problem is a problem in every country - there is no system that works cost-effectively imo...so, it other countries cant sort it out, i dont think theres much more we can expect from our public representatives than containment at best.

They can start with more basic things...and again, i agree that they have work to do as regards competition.

The point is shopping around needs to happen in tandem with government action on competition,

So, your suggesting to people NOT to bother being price concious until such time as effective regulation / legislation is introduced?? You know we DONT have dynamic government - by the time they achieve this, we will all be down €€€€.


I see your point to some extent stargazer and realise that for certain things eg. motor insurance we are simply held to ransom. However, for all non-essential purchases, the value of these items is determined by what you are prepared to pay for it - nobody makes you take the cash out of your back pocket and hand it over...

Eveyone knows the local Spar, Centra etc is going to be more expensive than Superquinn, Tesco etc, but besides Superquinn and Tesco, what else have we got?

Well, you go on to mention Lidl ( and of course, theres Aldi)..ok they havnt got planning in your area (they're not getting planning in most areas cos the local supervalus,etc keep putting in planning objections/ buying up suitable sites, etc.) - but its worth making the effort to travel to one - I travel 4o mins to the nearest and its still worth it.

The borders two hours away from you - Use it. I took someone up that neck of the woods the other week and they saved €900 on an item that was being charged at €1700 down here. The northern ireland branch of the same retailer had a completely different pricing structure (cos they wouldnt get away with it up there) - and this purchase had nothing to do with inadequate regulation...

sixtysix

i used to spend 150 euro per week in tesco.
now shop in lidl and tesco and seem to be saving 15 to 20 euro overall.
i am amazed.
i used to simply shop in tesco and buy regardless of price.

got a letter from canada life recently telling me that a life insurance product i have was due for renewal and that the revised charge would be 48 euro per month.
i got exactly the same cover from tesco for 20 euro per month.

star gazer

originally posted by eurorunner
So, your suggesting to people NOT to bother being price concious until such time as effective regulation / legislation is introduced?? You know we DONT have dynamic government - by the time they achieve this, we will all be down €€€€.

No being price conscious is important regardless, it is the extra effort that they will be telling us to make that should be made in tandem with government action. There is a point that we irish aren't strong enough in insisting on best value for money and should be more flexible to force companies to accomadate our trends.

eurorunner
The northern ireland branch of the same retailer had a completely different pricing structure (cos they wouldnt get away with it up there) - and this purchase had nothing to do with inadequate regulation...

Somehow it looks unlikely that they will be telling us to shop around that much.

Eurorunner

Somehow it looks unlikely that they will be telling us to shop around that much.

Your absolutely right. Even at the moment, the amount of cash thats being drained out of ireland as a result of anti-competitive trading locally is immense. However, more often than not, things have to get worse before they get better. If more people purchase outside of ireland either physically or virtually ie. online, they (the govt. and irish businesses) will get the message and start to compete...

star gazer

eurorunner
things have to get worse before they get better

that's too depressing to contemplate, surely there is a way to apply pressure without letting the retailers et al squeezing more money out of us? Maybe the local elections and euro elections will give people their say and if the government don't act on anti-competitive practices then they will have less councillors and meps to support their parties. Aside from that complaining to the stores that are known to rip off, shopping around, Voting with ones feet so to speak.

Eurorunner

Voting with ones feet so to speak.

Vote with your wallet! Leave it in the back pocket and hit the barstewards where it hurts...if enough people make the effort, they will review their pricing strategies:D

or spend in NI or purchase online.

star gazer

If the government are serious about the shop around thing then they will start advocating the buy North and buy online side of things. It would put the cat amongst the pigeons and force irish retailers to lower prices, the government would be losing taxes so it too would rethink it's indirect tax strategies. We really would feel the benefit of the celtic tiger if prices were dropped significantly.

gombín

There is no way that the government would advocate taxpayers spending their money in another jurisdicion. The words shoot; itself and foot come to mind.

Originally posted by star gazer
If the government are serious about the shop around thing then they will start advocating the buy North and buy online side of things. It would put the cat amongst the pigeons and force irish retailers to lower prices, the government would be losing taxes so it too would rethink it's indirect tax strategies. We really would feel the benefit of the celtic tiger if prices were dropped significantly.

star gazer

originally posted by gombín
There is no way that the government would advocate taxpayers spending their money in another jurisdicion. The words shoot; itself and foot come to mind.

granted, but the government are there to represent the people and make sure that there is a reasonably competitive market and if so many goods in the North are so much cheaper, then it stands to reason that there is something not quite right here and given that northern retailers are in it to make a profit too, southern retailers seem, on the surface at least to be making extra profits. Shopping around down south may not do much to improvew competition, but if people go North to shop, then something will have to be done down south to bring those shoppers back, (ie lower prices)

Eurorunner

There is no way that the government would advocate taxpayers spending their money in another jurisdicion. The words shoot; itself and foot come to mind.

Agreed. But, then the whole point with a whole load of things in Ireland - including this case - is that we shouldnt be waiting exclusively on govt. to sort them out.

John R

Originally posted by Eurorunner
Agreed. But, then the whole point with a whole load of things in Ireland - including this case - is that we shouldnt be waiting exclusively on govt. to sort them out.

The problem with most people in Ireland is that they just accept being ripped-off. The reaction of most people when I have told them about the huge differences stores such as Argos or Dixons charge to Irish consumers versus UK consumers is not anger or surprise but resignation. I think most people are aware that we are being overcharged, but see no real alternative. I don't agree with that attitude, I would rather do without luxury items rather than pay extortionate prices, but as long as a majority of consumers keep paying up these companies will have no incentive to reduce prices.

Instead of a campaign telling people to shop around what we need is a campaign telling people where to shop and where not to.