New Connection Phones

LFCFan

Is anything gonna be done about the prices of new connection phones in Ireland? How come the same company can practically give these phones away but in Ireland you have to pay 2 or 3 hundred Euro? We are spending more per customer than the UK so it doesn't make sense. I guess it's just another example of UK companies ripping off the Irish.

babyhack

it is a bit much put think of it this way

we are still buying them at this price
(well most of us)

so if you had a company and most people who deal with you are willing to part with a lot of money for your product are you going to sell it cheap or get as much money as you can for it

me i be evil take all there money and kick them out of the shop
but thats just me

LFCFan

but that's what I'm getting at. The Irish are for want of a better word, stupid, when it comes to consumer issues. We just accept what's given to us and that's that. If we decided to stop buying phones at these prices then maybe something would be done about the prices.

babyhack

Originally posted by LFCFan
If we decided to stop buying phones at these prices then maybe something would be done about the prices.

but whats the chance of that happening

i am up for it the last phone i got was 500 yoyos a year ago and the new phone i want now will prob be the same price

no way me paying that again

the price here should be the same as the uk its not like we so different or so far apart that the phones need added stuff to work

its the same phone only difference is the price

but as i say as long as people pay for it they going to sell it at that price

LFCFan

the difference between ourselves and the UK is that they don't take this crap. There is also loads of competition and companies are falling over each other trying to sign people up. Here, like with nearly everything else, there's no real competition so prices ramain way too high and we get a raw deal again. Meteor can't even compete to the same level because they are finding it hard to get their coverage sorted out. Also, some people say that because the UK is bigger, they can afford to give phones away but it's all relative. Here there are less people but it also means less phones to have to sell but at the same time they charge way more for calls so in the end phones should be cheaper here that in the UK. I'm sick of seeing all the Ads for 'free' phones and 500 free texts and 500 free minutes per month all for a measly £25 or something. We really are getting screwed in Ireland.

babyhack

i think i heard somewhere that we have an open market until the end of the year eg a company has till the end of year to set up over here

think the plan was that all the english companies would see a chance of making some money and would invest in the irish market

but i have not heard of any of them thinking of doing it

may be totaly wrong about this so dont quote me

jesus_thats_gre

Well the difference between here and the UK is that there is just 3 million potential customers here and over 50 million in the UK.. There is also at least 5 operators, all with a decent share of the market, as oppossed to our duopoly with Meteor dragging behind....

So it basically boils down to competition.

LFCFan

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
So it basically boils down to competition.

Everything boils down to competition in this country and at the end of the day it is the consumer that suffers because there's never enough competition. And, when there are plenty of businesses, they end up operating a cartel so again we lose out, ie. Insurance, Pharmacies, Pubs etc etc and this is down to the government not regulating properly.

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by LFCFan
Everything boils down to competition in this country and at the end of the day it is the consumer that suffers because there's never enough competition. And, when there are plenty of businesses, they end up operating a cartel so again we lose out, ie. Insurance, Pharmacies, Pubs etc etc and this is down to the government not regulating properly.

Ok this is going into a rant me thinks.

LFCFan

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
Ok this is going into a rant me thinks.

Rant maybe, but it's still the truth :mad:

jesus_thats_gre

It a combination of 50 things to be honest.

Network operators in every country subsidise the price of handset in retail outlets. Operators offer in or around €170 towards the price of a handset. Stores can then sell the phone at whatever price they wish and if you shop around, you will always save yourself a fortune.

In the UK, there are numerous retail chains in operation such as the Link, Carphone Warehouse and Phones4u in every medium sized town. In this country, I think the Carphone Warehouse is the only large operator independent chain. The majority of other chains have been bought up by both O2 and Vodafone. The problem I think lies with the small independent outlets that are dotted around every small town. Your average Joe Soap is more than happy to wander into these stores and get a new "Nokio" every second year and pay through the nose for it. Increasingly however, these stores are either closing down or being sucked up by the bigger chains. The more of these chains competing against each other in every town there is, the cheaper our phones will get.

LFCFan

Originally posted by jesus_thats_gre
It a combination of 50 things to be honest.

Network operators in every country subsidise the price of handset in retail outlets. Operators offer in or around €170 towards the price of a handset. Stores can then sell the phone at whatever price they wish and if you shop around, you will always save yourself a fortune.

In the UK, there are numerous retail chains in operation such as the Link, Carphone Warehouse and Phones4u in every medium sized town. In this country, I think the Carphone Warehouse is the only large operator independent chain. The majority of other chains have been bought up by both O2 and Vodafone. The problem I think lies with the small independent outlets that are dotted around every small town. Your average Joe Soap is more than happy to wander into these stores and get a new "Nokio" every second year and pay through the nose for it. Increasingly however, these stores are either closing down or being sucked up by the bigger chains. The more of these chains competing against each other in every town there is, the cheaper our phones will get.

ie. Competition!

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by LFCFan
ie. Competition!

If you consider it as simple as that, why did you post in the the Mobile forum. It is a major problem in every business sector in this country, not just mobile phones.

LFCFan

I started the thread because supposedly the government want to do something about the rediculously high charges for Irish Mobile users and I was wondering if anything would be done about handsets too!

jesus_thats_gre

Originally posted by LFCFan
I started the thread because supposedly the government want to do something about the rediculously high charges for Irish Mobile users and I was wondering if anything would be done about handsets too!

I see your point. The fact of the matter is that the handset is being subsidised by the operators already. There is no obligation to do this in the first place - something for nothing and all. We all know what the purpose of these subsidies.

jesus_thats_gre

With reference to the whole craic about Irish mobile users incurring higher charges than those in Europe and the UK, I read this article in the Irish Independent on the 30th of October.

Irish mobile phones user spend the more time using their phone than nearly every other operator in Europe. Based on AMPU (average minutes per user), Irish mobile users were the highest in Europe at 183 mins per customer. This figure is 71% higher than usage on the UK O2 network, 62% higher than those on the German O2 network, 45% more than those on the Dutch KPN network, 65% than those on the Spanish Telefonica network and 18% more than those on the Norweigan Telenor network. This data was from internal Vodafone data and was prepard for the OECD.

The general concensus is that because the ARPU (average revenue per user) is around €45 per month in Ireland and only €30 in Europe, we are getting over charged. Operators here are arguing that Irish people just use their phone more, thus incur larger bills.

sunbeam

Hmm, the Vodafone website is quoting a subsidy of €135 for upgrade phones. I could have sworn this was closer to €175-180 last year.

Is this a typo?

jesus_thats_gre

I couldnt tell ya, I cant remember the exact figure. It varies depending what tariff you connect on too. In some cases it is considerably less than that though. I am guessing that is a pretty rough average. It is also well publisised that operators are trying to reduce the subsidy they place on phones.

v10

The problem I think lies with the small independent outlets that are dotted around every small town. Your average Joe Soap is more than happy to wander into these stores and get a new "Nokio" every second year and pay through the nose for it.

What a load of crap.

Vodafone dealers (regardless of size) can do little or nothing about the price of handsets. Vodafone has ONE distributor for all their handsets (Bill & Prepay). Dealers MUST buy their stock from this dealer and often pay higher amounts than the same phones can be purchased for trade elsewhere. Vodafone then states the amount of subsidy (''commission'') they will pay on each handset and then the RRP of the handset. Believe me the margins allowed by teh Networks are not that great.

In the case of new customers, Vodafone offers extra ''Commission'' dependant on tariff which dealers usuallly use to further discount the handsets.

Vodafone has complete control over how much the handsets are sold for NOT the dealers.

Meteor have only one distributor also and funnily enough offer even smaller margins to their dealers... and O2 do it the same way as Vodafone (sort of) but have 3 distributors that can each source their handsets independently.

jesus_thats_gre

While you seem to have a good idea whats going on that side of things, how do you explain the prices differences between the likes or carphone warehouse and independent stores?

v10

how do you explain the prices differences between the likes or carphone warehouse and independent stores?

I put it down to clever marketing.

Customers often don't get phones for the price advertised in carphone warehouse posters and catalogues. They always advertise phones at the cheapest price they can, and then work upwards.

Most independent stores will match prices offered by carphone warehouse as long as the price is offered to the customer and not simply advertised.

These apparently good prices will already assume new connection to a reasonably high tariff (i.e. minimum €38pm rental as their catalogue states) and a trade in of a working handset (which must include battery, charger and manual!)

It's the trade in value that makes the only difference and if you look closely, €20 is all they allow for any handset.... which I'm sure most independent dealers would offer if you put it to them.

...Just my opinion.

sunbeam

So what do they do with all those old traded in phones?

v10

At a guess they are all put together (inc Uk) and sold to some export buyer.