Improving Boards.ie

JustHalf

I've written a document which talks about ways of improving Boards.ie through a standards-compliant redesign.

Implementing my suggestions, the main advantages would be:

• More accessible to those with disabilities
• Faster page downloads
• Easier to redesign
• Easier to use
• Yuppies can post from their PDAs

The document is here:
http://antidisinformation.com/boards.ie/initialdoc/

Any feedback would be appreciated.

DeVore

Firstly I'd like to say a big thanks to JH for putting in this amount of work. This doc is something we have discussed behind the scenes and JH has committed a lot of time to bringing it to this stage.

Next we have to look at feasibility and strategy to achieve these ends. (eg: do we develop on 2.9 or research what we get for free in 3.0?)

Great first stab JH... hope we can turn it into something productive without a lot of recoding.

DeV.

Cloud

Thanks JH - That is a very impressive document, and should be very helpful.


Kind of related, in a move to make things more friendly for non-JS people we'll be introducing a bog-standard HTML version of our menu, a la:

http://www.boards.ie/sitemap.html

This is generated from the same menu file that is used up top, so should always be up to date.

JustHalf

The big problem I see with that technique is that you have to go to a seperate page to go from one part of boards to another.

Providing a list of links to the top-level boards in a noscript tag allows those without javascript to easily move between top-level boards.

I know how annoying it was browsing in Konqueror and having no quick-access menu.

The index page provides very similar functionality, and that's what I ended up using. And it was a pain in the face.

mneylon

VB3 is still in beta, but a lot of new features, including a lot of XML stuff has been added.
It might be worth looking at what the new version of VB offers rather than using the current version as a basis.
A lot of JustHalf's comments about the code etc., may have been addressed to a greater or lesser extent in the newer version.

Just my two cents

Eurorunner

there may be a couple of minor improvements that can be made but as fars i'm concerned boards is the bizz:cool:

The only prob i encountered recently was when i accessed boards via a net café - i cant remember the software they were running but they wouldnt allow boards cos of 'subversive' code ...or something to that effect:eek: ...i imagine its to do with some scripting or other yer running??

Otherwise, thanks for providing such a great forum.

DeVore

Aye... I'm taking JH's doc as the desireable end result... how we get there is another thing entirely. I agree with BK that we should look and see what vB3.0 brings us... I'm working on creating a test-platform for us.... I've only just started looking at this though but I hope to have something for us before xmas.

DeV.

ecksor

Originally posted by Eurorunner
there may be a couple of minor improvements that can be made but as fars i'm concerned boards is the bizz:cool:

If you're used to the site layout and you're using one of a few browsers then it's not too bad.

If you're blind, or using a browser we're not optimised for, or can't use javascript, then we're pretty bad and that's the sort of thing that JustHalf is trying to sort out here.

Boston

Originally posted by ecksor
If you're used to the site layout and you're using one of a few browsers then it's not too bad.

If you're blind, or using a browser we're not optimised for, or can't use javascript, then we're pretty bad and that's the sort of thing that JustHalf is trying to sort out here.

Ecksor i was just reminded of something there about your paranid obsession with security and the like, it reflect my own. Point is will we be seeing a more secure boards in the future, and some of the suggests in other threads, such as only showing images from truthed sites, coming on line.

ecksor

Originally posted by Boston
Ecksor i was just reminded of something there about your paranid obsession with security and the like, it reflect my own.

I don't know where you get idea that it is paranoid from.

Point is will we be seeing a more secure boards in the future, and some of the suggests in other threads, such as only showing images from truthed sites, coming on line.

You'll have to be more specific than "more secure" for a good general answer. More secure for who? In what way?

The suggestion about trusted sites is on the todo list, and will hopefully happen soon.

Victor

Originally posted by Cloud
Kind of related, in a move to make things more friendly for non-JS people we'll be introducing a bog-standard HTML version of our menu, a la: http://www.boards.ie/sitemap.html This is generated from the same menu file that is used up top, so should always be up to date.

List is very long - would it be easier to navigate if it was in the same format as the JS one? Something like the attached*, but obviously with text-wrapping 5K||Z. It would make for a very "Minimalist" / accessible (optional) front page.

*This image©® created with MSPaint™. No colours were harmed in forming this image. However several fonts were brutally battered. amp and tom-thebox were not consulted in the creation of this image and bear no responsibility. teh artist reserves the right identified for all blame associated with this image.

ferdi

if it aint broke dont fix it.

Victor

Originally posted by ferdi
if it aint broke dont fix it.

It's not broke, but it is suffering creep, especially for user with "differences".

yellum

Originally posted by ferdi
if it aint broke dont fix it.

Nothing works 100% properly , nothing is perfectly coded. A website is never finished. Improvements can always be made to even the best systems. What works for one person or a large % of people does not qualify as perfection.

Stark

That document is excellent.

I have noticed that boards.ie can be very taxing on a web browser - as the document said, code bloat.

Also the javascript used seems to cause linux browsers to lock up constantly, such that I always turn off javascript before visiting boards.ie. It's good to see this issue mentioned in the document.

Cloud

I have added a <noscript> alternative for the top-level menu options for those without JS/with JS disabled.

Mercury_Tilt

This post has been deleted.

Boston

best way to improve Boards.ie would be to remove PTH, i mean haven't we had enough of there socialistic imbreading at this stage? bunch or evil midgets. Very disappointed Merc

ecksor

Change the record.

Boston

shouldn't you be bullying children on IRC for your ego trips ecksor instead of hasseling moi. Merc has a problem and hes to much of a girls blose to be upfront about it

ecksor

Originally posted by Boston
shouldn't you be bullying children on IRC for your ego trips ecksor instead of hasseling moi.

My my, you change your attitudes awfully quickly.

Merc has a problem and hes to much of a girls blose to be upfront about it

You've had your whinge about PTH on this forum already and not much more than a month ago at this stage. You brought it up here, so don't go pinning the blame elsewhere.

Is it on topic on this thread? No.

Take it elsewhere.

DeVore

Yeah. Anywhere else. Boston banned from feedback for a month or more depending on how I feel. I'm tired of your "me me me" **** on threads that have nothing to do with you.

Everyone back on topic or I'll regain my "Most Narky Admin" crown from Ecksor.

DeV.

PhilipMarlowe

Nice one...
I like the doc... i even like the mockups.. I use the minimalist style and like the idea of an (almost)super-stripped-down version of the site.
Plus compliance always = good.

for boston;
And you tell off when you tell it like it is
your world's no wider that your hatred of his
checking into a small reality
boring as a drug you take too regularly...
...better sell it while you can

amp

Originally posted by DeVore
Yeah. Anywhere else. Boston banned from feedback for a month or more depending on how I feel. I'm tired of your "me me me" **** on threads that have nothing to do with you.

\o/

Everyone back on topic or I'll regain my "Most Narky Admin" crown from Ecksor.

:eek:

A lot of the stuff JH wrote I don't understand, but I get the gist of it. My personal dream of being able to read boards on my beautiful PDA (which 2bh is better than ecksors ) and therefore whereever the hell I am draws nearer.

p

Well, I'd wait until VB3 comes out (if ever) as I has a whole load of XHTML stuff by default.

Once that happens then the rest of the stuff is pretty easy to implement. Hacking over the existing structure might be hella messsy.

Also, I've use a nice forum Yay Hooray and they use a lot of CSS to give users a lot of power over how they view the site.

e.g. people can add their own style rules to the site, and it allows you to do things like remove images, ignore users posts...

e.g. if each user post has a rule something like this. <div class="userPostJim">...

You can then do something like so:

.userPostJim {
display: none;
}

And that's just the start of the kind of thing they do. User could use the same technique to hide sigs, show/hide things like navbars, UBB code help etc...

So yay for CSS & Stuff, it'll save money, make skinning easier and give users a whole load of control over how they use & view boards.ie, without you admin folks having to think about it.

Oh yea, and I'd volunteer my Web Standards sKills if needed.

Good luck,

- Kevin

Victor

Originally posted by p

e.g. people can add their own style rules to the site, and it allows you to do things like remove images, ignore users posts...

....

And that's just the start of the kind of thing they do. User could use the same technique to hide sigs, show/hide things like navbars, UBB code help etc...

You can already turn off sigs and ignore people from the User CP.

DeadBankClerk

I heartily endorse this product or service.

Great document JH.

p

Originally posted by Victor
You can already turn off sigs and ignore people from the User CP.

Yes, I know.
I was giving an example of the type of hting you can do, even it's not an inbuilt VBB option.

JustHalf

Kevin, have you viewed source on YayForum?

I've seen the beta of VB3 and it's still using tables for layout (and still has too much information per post, in my opinion). It still needs a lot of work. I think that, given Boards.ie will be moving to VB3 there's no real point in editing any v2 templates.

It may be a good idea to complete this project as part of Boards.ie's move to VB3.

p

VB3 is still using tables. For shame, is it much leaner at all?

Though I suppose in some respects a forum like this is quite tabular in nature (though I'm not sure how VB3 does it)

I know yayhooray is tag soup galore but the power of CSS that they use it's impressive nonetheless.

)

JustHalf

Alright guys. Ball is rolling.

More information here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=124040

I'm not too sure where these things should be posted...

ecksor

Originally posted by JustHalf
I'm not too sure where these things should be posted...

Hack attack seems most relevant.

Figment

Interesting article:
http://www.digital-web.com/columns/keepitsimple/keepitsimple_2003-11.shtml