News from the North today...

bonkey

I must say I was seriously disheartened listening to the news today.

The IRA apparently decomissioned another cache of weapons. deChastelaine (sp?) has verified this, but said that on the request of the IRA, he will not give details, other than to say it was the most significant to date, and that it was significant in and of its own right.

The Unionists - who approved of deChastelaine as a trustworthy sort to be in charge of the decomissioning and to monitor and manage it, are now saying this is not acceptable.

If deChastelaine's word isn't good enough, then what is he there for? More importantly, why did they accept him in the first place?

This appears to be yet another case of the republicans showing up the hypocracy of the unionists. Discussing peace is all well and good, but accepting anything done by the other side to move towards it is apparently still beyond their ability.

jc

Boston

Keeping in mind i can't tolerate allot of this. One of the unionist parties, DUP (i think htats right), whre demanding at one stage that one of there representative be present at the decomissioning or any IRA weapons. As you can imagine this type fo thing won't fly. If this is the type of evidence they require then i fail to see how progress can be made. Notice also that the ira are the only ones to have made anything but token decomissioning of weapons. Where are the red hand defenders guns? and why arn't they being turned over. Probably because their to bussy killing each other with them.

Vader

What do we want? A cease-fire. When do we want it? NEVER!
What do we want? Decommissioning. When do we want it? NEVER!
What do we want? A statement saying the war is over. When do we want it? NEVER!
What do we want? Decommissioning. When do we want it? NEVER!
What do we want? Transparent decommissioning. When do we want it? NEVER!
The unionists got everything they asked for and like always they have picked a new scape goat.

mike65

Same old same old......

Mike.

Vader

Originally posted by Boston
Keeping in mind i can't tolerate allot of this. One of the unionist parties, DUP (i think htats right), whre demanding at one stage that one of there representative be present at the decomissioning or any IRA weapons. As you can imagine this type fo thing won't fly. If this is the type of evidence they require then i fail to see how progress can be made. Notice also that the ira are the only ones to have made anything but token decomissioning of weapons. Where are the red hand defenders guns? and why arn't they being turned over. Probably because their to bussy killing each other with them.

Well if your not up to date Ill give you a few pointers.
Paisleys DUP are on the verge of becoming the biggest party in NI, there famous for having NI oldest living Dinosour as a member. So far there has been 8 unionist parties: the Up, UUp, DUP, UP of NI, OUP, VUP, Allience Party(dont let the name fool you) and PUP. It looks like Donaldson is going to form a new party: OGNAUP --- Oh God Not Anoother Unionist Party.
The Red Hand Defenders dont exist, its a cover name for the UDA and sometimes combined ops(That is a combination of UVF UFF and UDA resources). And while Im at it the organisation Adare was attached to was the LVF.

Boston

Have any of those groups you mentioned put beyond use anything more then a pen knife, and more to the point did the IRA demand video evidence of it?

Boston

Originally posted by Vader
Well if your not up to date Ill give you a few pointers.
Paisleys DUP are on the verge of becoming the biggest party in NI, there famous for having NI oldest living Dinosour as a member. So far there has been 8 unionist parties: the Up, UUp, DUP, UP of NI, OUP, VUP, Allience Party(dont let the name fool you) and PUP. It looks like Donaldson is going to form a new party: OGNAUP --- Oh God Not Anoother Unionist Party.

This right here is why i don't care about the north and i say the brits can keep it.

dathi1

I actually had to turn to Sky news to get a more balanced approach on the issue....Charlie Bird was harping on about how he contacted republicans to get video footage of decommissioning weapons and was refused and Brian Dobson actually said that the ball was now in republicans court. Even former Officials Workers Party Rabbite looked disappointed about Trimble's stance.

Mercury_Tilt

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joseph brand

Its like trying to sort out a long time feud between two families of angry knackers.

They love the 'troubles'.

Can't live without some troubles that need sortin' out.

What will Gerry Adams, Trimble, Paisley and that guy (who bugs the beJaysus out of me and looks like Daniel O Donnell), do, if peace is restored(unlikely anyways)???

They must be making millions, the lot of them, and it's the innocent who are suffer, and don't get to talk to the one and only, Charlie Bird, or better still, the voluptuos Anne Doyle.

Anyone know name of guy who looks like Daniel???? Please.

Originally posted by joseph brand
and that guy (who bugs the beJaysus out of me and looks like Daniel O Donnell),

Yes that would be Geofrey Donaldson and he is the spit of the Donegal crooner :eek:

mm

TomF

It was predictable that auld Trimble would be on TV finding reasons not to renew progress towards democracy in Northern Ireland. I think it is just the "Not an Inch" mentality at work and if Trimble doesn't act as spokesman for it, he is out of a job and back doing whatever he used to do before he got into politics. (Isn't he a lawyer?)

Can you imagine what it must have been like for people all over Ireland in the bad old days when the Trimble kind were in power in the north, the south, the east and the west, from the center to the sea? No wonder Irish people streamed out of here to foreign parts.

daveirl

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Three two thoughts really on the events:
Trimble must have known that the IRA would use the confidentiality clause.
At the same time he knows that he will be hammered at the elections if nothing is pulled out of this.
So I am thinking brinkmanship here, David Trimble is to cunning a politician to be creating this situation without a fall back when an election is imminent.

Technically it is possible with a split unionist vote ie if Donaldson et al break away, that SF and the DUP could end up as the two largest parties.
Under D'haunt then Martin Mcguinness or Peter Robinson would be eligible for the first ministers job. Unlikely but possible.

The second thing that comes to mind is how this plays into the hands of SF and particularilly dissident Republicans as they can say oh it's them unionists again, they are raising the bar once more, and will keep raising the bar as they don't actually want a settlement.


I t would of course be physically very possible for SF/IRA to test this notion by letting what they've decommissioned out into the public Domain.
But in the tender politics that is NI, that would be seen as a type of surrender.
It would take some convincing to convince the IRA otherwise, even if to the unconnected, Surrender isn't even in the vocabulary, we'd just see it as the IRA being positive and genuine .

Indeed to be perfectly honest i hope they do declare what they've decommissioned , simply because it would put the whole thing on a new plain on the road to normal politic/life
/ wishfull thinking perhaps.

mm

growler

An astute political self-preservatoin move by Trimble with elections coming up, no unionist will ever vote for anyone who shows any intention of progressing the peace process.

The peace process appears to be a one way road to the disbandment of the IRA, the response by Trimbel was very dissappointing for the majority of people in Ireland as it plays the same old unionist card, JUST SAY NO !

I'm starting to question the DUP's interest in normalising life in the North, surely they understand that the IRA woucould not decommission all their weapons without alientating a lot of their supporters.

The more often the unionists snub the goodwill gestures of republicans the more likely a return to the bad old days seems. 9 years of relative peace , 3 decomissioning events (many thought they would never see such a thing) and SF becoming political without the threat of a bomb behind them, and they seem intent on not reciprocating in any meaningful way.

Maybe their intention is to frustrate the nationalist community, provoke another round of terorism, safe in the knowledge that the international community would no longer sympathise with the position of SF and the IRA, thus preserving the union with continued military intervention and the removal of power sharing.

Trimnble can talk the talk but seem unable to walk the walk due to the pressure from within his party. I think Trimble might personally favour normalising the north, but any hint of sharing power is an anathema (sp?) to most unionists, and they don't seem to be changing their attitudes at all despite the developments of recent years.

Vader

Originally posted by dathi1
I actually had to turn to Sky news to get a more balanced approach on the issue....Charlie Bird was harping on about how he contacted republicans to get video footage of decommissioning weapons and was refused and Brian Dobson actually said that the ball was now in republicans court. Even former Officials Workers Party Rabbite looked disappointed about Trimble's stance.

Thats why Charlie Bird didnt get the job as northern editor. I was listenig to Tommy Gorman and he sounded ok. If you wanted objective intelligent comentary you should tune into the BBC. Sky News, as usual, were blantently lying. They actually said that Mr Adams refused to promise that there would be no return to violene. He said just thet at least three times!!

The IRA cant give the details the unionists want. Nothing would be substantial enough plus if you know what they decommission and you can guess what they had then the IRA is in a weak bargining position. As well as that if you were to video it or have independant observes then where these arms dumps are and whos there would become known and the strenght of the IRA is again deminished.

What Trimble should have said if he is commited to peace is "We talked with the General before the decommissioning, we are agreed on what is substantial to the unionist community and if he says this is substantial then it was substantial".

daveirl

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monument

Originally posted by dathi1
I actually had to turn to Sky news to get a more balanced approach on the issue....Charlie Bird was harping on about how he contacted republicans to get video footage of decommissioning weapons and was refused and Brian Dobson actually said that the ball was now in republicans court. Even former Officials Workers Party Rabbite looked disappointed about Trimble's stance.

The Guardian are covering it...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/

And here is the BBC's NI news section
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/default.stm

Also a cartoon on the event...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/cartoons/stevebell/0,7371,1068279,00.html

Vader

Originally posted by daveirl
Not trolling or anything but if Adams did say the war was over why would he be worried by 'the strength of the IRA being deminished'

If reunification doesnt go smoothly the IRA will be called on to defend communites in high risk areas.

daveirl

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Vader

Originally posted by daveirl
Reunification is never going to happen and even if it did why wouldn't adams trust the Irish Security forces.

Because they are unarmed, under-resourced, poor intelligence and tend to stay out of dodgy areas after dark. Besides they have to deal with all criminal activity where as the IRA have a much smaller mandate and so are usually more efficient.
Its not Adams decision to be confidential anyway, it was a security council decision.

bonkey

Originally posted by daveirl
Reunification is never going to happen and even if it did why wouldn't adams trust the Irish Security forces.

Can someone explain to me how "never" still fits inside Adams' lifetime?????

Is the man immortal, or does "never" mean "not in the next couple of years anyway" or something.

I could have sworn it meant "not ever", but maybe thats just me....

jc

Vader

You see there was NEVER going to be home rule,
there was NEVER going to be a republic,
there was NEVER going to be anything other than "a prodestant state for a prodestant people",
there was NEVER going to be a rerouting of parades
and there certainly will NEVER be a united Ireland.

daveirl

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sceptre

Originally posted by daveirl
if it did happen why would adams need his own army.

Marxist revolution? When those workers of the world (even the Irish Catholic ones) unite they'll be needing an army.