2nd dish for ASTRA-1?

lowlands

Hi, have been reading this forum for a few months since I got Sky installed.

I am happy enough with Sky for the regular programs, but now want to extend my Satellite experience and watch programs transmitted by Canal Digitaal on ASTRA-1G/H at 19.2E.

I can get a (seca) receiver with card, but I rather don't want a second dish attached to the house. So I have a few questions (note that I'm a satellite newby, so forgive me stupid questions)

1: I have read that when satellites are close enough, a second LNB can be attached to existing dish. Is this possible for me, and would I need a bigger dish? (I now have standard Sky mini-dish)

2: Does a second LNB mean that I need to run a second cable all the way through the house? With the Sky install I got the installer to connect the dish to the outside cable connection point so no need to drill holes and have ugly cables routed trough the living room.

3: Would a motorised dish solve the cable problem, i.e. could I use existing cable to get both satellites? What would be the downside of such a solution?

4: As an added complication, I am interested in upgrading to Sky+, but I read about a quattro LNB etc. Does that mean that 2 or more cables are routed from the dish to the box, and if so why can't they split the signal at the box? Would the need for Sky+ effect the solution I need to watch Canal Digital on ASTRA-1?


Any help/comments appreciated !

watty

1) Yes you can have multiple LNB. Sky , Hotbird and Astra will all work well on a 80cm dish.

The minidish is nearly too small for Sky (in heavy rain). Yes you really need a bigger dish, though people have done it with a minidish.

See http://homepage.eircom.net/~watty/satellite/sathowto-p6.htm

also

is now replaced, but it worked perfectly!

2)
For Digibox yes, for a system with up to 4 LNBs and NO digibox, no. Each receiver needs its own LNB cable... Non-Digibox can have a small £20 4-way switch at the dish operated remotely via the single coax. Sky won't enable this feature on a Digibox, as they only want you to watch Sky.

A non-Digibox will receive all the FREE channels on Sky, but not any that use a Sky card. The Sky card only works in a Digibox.

3) Not really unless you only want free channels on Sky. A motorsied system is slower to channel flick as the dish has to move. The 2, 3 or 4 LNBs on one dish via 4 way Diseqc switch and one cable is faster. The motor system can get about 1100 free TV the fixed LNBs about 500. If you keep a digibox you need two cables.

4) You can't split the cable. There are a possible FOUR times as many stations as fit on a cable, so the LNB accepts remote commands from the Digibox or other receiver to:
Horizontal or Vertical Polarity (18V or 14V on cable)
Low or High Band (above or below 11.7GHz, 22KHz tone off or on on the cable).

So the two tuners in a Sky+ would conflict with each other.

Each input that is used at the same time needs either an LNB or an LNB connection and its own coax.


QUAD LNB.. please. A Quattro or Twin LNB won't work on Sky+ it is for a distution system as each conneciotn has one of the four LNB modes permenantly. A Quad or Dual the outputs work independantly.

In Europe a Monoblock is popular. It has two horns and one output and receives two adjacent satellites. Should be avoided on any setup that might have more than two satellites or Digibox.


You should not have used outside cable point as Cable TV cable is not good enough. You need a cable run all the way anyway for the existing Digibox.


All entirely reasonable questions. Some of the anwsers are not reasonable, blame the Technology and Sky. (Or the cable company for not using better cable!).


I have all my dishes on a shed at back of garden. The cables all are underground in a waste pipe I buried. They go in Kitchen into a discrete "picture rail / uplighter" kind of thing around wall to living room. One hole behine cupbaord in Kitchen and in corner of Living room floor behind TV. PC LAN network cables in same pipe/trunking.

An aerial cable from Digibox/VHS/Analog Satellite receivers etc comes from living room to a distribution amp behind kitchen cupboard to All the other TVs, some via airing cupboard (with LAN cables) to attic and drop down to bedrooms.

Every room is wired for TV and network.

On All TVs:
C5 = PC based Satelite Receiver in Shed (IR remote in Living room) 4 Satellites, Astra, Hotbird, Turksat and Sky FTA all with HDD PVR on PC.
C6 = Digibox
C7 = Analog Hotbird
C8 = Anaog Astra
C9 = Was 2nd Digibox (gone)
C10 = SVHS showing securioty camera if no tape playing.

Main TV:
AV1 = Digibox
AV2 = DVD
AV3 = SVHS

You can get neat rectangular "clip on" lid plastic "trunking" in White that is in sizes for 3 cables up to lots. This can be painted. It can be used self adhesive or screwed on.

YOu can even get "fake" skirting board replacement for HUGE number of cables.

lowlands

Thanks for the quick reply Watty. Still studying it :-)

At least I understand that each receiver, or to be precise, tuner in receiver (as the Sky+ box has 2) needs a separate LNB (connection) when used concurrently because they communicate the band and polarity to use. It's like a pre-tuner on the dish, makes sense to me now.

So it is also starting to sink in that I won't get away with connecting to the outside cable point anymore, not looking forward to drilling and routing cables as the TV is of course on the exact opposite side of the dish on the house.

Hope to study reply in more detail tonight !

watty

Good.. you understand more than *some* people installing and selling (there are lots of expert installers and sales persons too of course).


The Sat cable (if CT100 or better) can go up to 50m easily as the LNB is indeed a kind of "pre tuner" and the signal on the cable is amplified. So you can run cable up into attic and down again, or around the house, there is often a indented part near ground if house is rendered.

Use a piece of washing line or orange nylon builders cord to get correct length. Don't guess or measure, actually "install" the line if possible. Allow 12ft extra and cut four lengths Measure twice cut once!. Then if "pulling in" use nylon cord or washing line to pull all 4 in at once. So 4 cables can be same work as 1.

Greenman

This is really the setup to have!!!!

Mossy Monk

has the owner of that dish ever hear of motorised mightily impressive though

watty

Such systems are NORMALLY used with big toriodal extended Parabola dishes to feed cable heads and communal TV were *ALL* the LNBs are available at the same time.

It is VERY cost effective for a block of flats / apartment / hotel etc as although the distribution amps and dish and LNBs expensive the more users the cheaper it is.

Each LNB on a cable head end / comunal /hotel system would need to be a Quattro or Quad depending on distribution gear.

The one in the picture is a secondary torodial dish focusing the signal from a main dish. The headend / comunal systems usually just use a single very elongated dish. Also the system in the picture *IS* for personal use as you can see clearly that each LNB has only one cable. Unless he has multiple receivers a motor H-H or jack actuator would be better on that size dish. Maybe it is a demo to feed display model satellite receiver in a shop.

"Look I can install any of these satellites for you ...."

Maybe this weekend I'll post an updated picture of my system.

lowlands

Ok, it sounds like a 2nd LNB on a dish and routing a few cables through the house is going to be the best solution for me. But the answers raised some more practical questions :-)

I need a 80cm dish. What do I need to look out for, are there 'upgradeable' dishes where I can fit a motorized system later if this starting hobby goes out of control like Watty or that picture from Greenman :-) What sort of prizes are we talking about to get this new dish + 2nd LNB + Cables ?

I'll probably route the cables myself (great tip on the washing line) and get an installer in to setup the dish etc. Do I need to get planning permission for the bigger dish first? (it's at the back of my house overlooking the garden, the sky mini dish was no problem) Watty mentioned CT100 cable, where would I go for that so it's in place before the installer goes to work.

If Sky finds out I have replaced their dish and rearranged the official installation (I'm still in the first 12 months) would I be in trouble? Does the installer or Sky take the mini-dish back for re-use / recycling or need I try to hammer it into the bin?

Thanks for all your feedback

Greenman

Watty I can't find out how to do it but how did you paste the photo on the page rather than as an attachment??
PS Just installed a really old Hauppage WinTV card in a really old PC. Works great with the digibox. Sorry to be off topic watty but can't seem to PM you.

Here's more of the same!!!

Eurorunner

Originally posted by greenman
Watty I can't find out how to do it but how did you paste the photo on the page rather than as an attachment??
/B]

Greenman, if you put the pic on a webspace somewhere eg. your boards.ie webspace. - then put in the http link inside the IMG tags, it will appear on the post itself.
OT, but just wanted to say thanks for your suggesion ref. Rue Brabant, Brussels a while back - its satellite city down that street:D

Lowlands: you can get ct125 cable from B&Q in Liffey Valley Retail Park. 100m = €50. If you happen to be down my direction (Galway), i can let you have some..have loads left over.

watty

I have opposite problem. I figured out the img tags (which don't work on Digital spy) but an attachment I think is blocked in sending by firewall here or at home. or perhaps one I tried was too large.
#

Out of control??? Moi?

Don't touch that browser button!

watty

Originally posted by greenman
[BJust installed a really old Hauppage WinTV card in a really old PC. Works great with the digibox.
[/B]

I managed to get the Analog WinTv card and the Satellite card both working at same time.


For Analog I have tried Virtual Dub, Virtual VCR and Descaler all with +/- for either watching or capture TV. Descaler with its real time deinterlace (needed for PC screen) and real time logo / dog removal is interesting for viewing.

I bought the IUVlabs VCR. it is quite stable at full screen capture (many programs don't like 704 x 576, 720 x 576 or 768 x 576).

Showshifter I got a 1.5 or so of a magasine but was not impressed at User Interface or facilities (non-standard file makes it hard or impossible to capture my camcorder fro SVCD or DVD authoring.

I use tmpgenc for MPEG2 encoding. (Don't do any VCD as SVCD is so much better for my camcorder footage). I havn't transfered any of my Analog camcorder to DVD yet, though I did do a couple of episodes of BBC Industrial woinders I missed and set PC to timer record direct from Satellite. No-re-encoding when using PVAstrumento to fix the bitrate to "real" avarage bitrate and using TE DVD author (Sonic MyDVD is painfull for menus and insists on re-encoding).

I also got a german DVB Median Centre freeware that can play non-protected DVDs via TV out on the Digital Satellite card. (Amazingly the satellite application itself orignally only did PVA recording playback but now plays MPEG2 inc SVCD disks, but not DVDs as they don't have "actual" MPEG2 files as such.)

lowlands

Lowlands: you can get ct125 cable from B&Q in Liffey Valley Retail Park. 100m = €50. If you happen to be down my direction (Galway), i can let you have some..have loads left over.

Thanks for the offer Eurorunner but I am in North Dublin, guess I will go visit B&Q again, problem is I always come out of that place with a lot more then I wanted to buy (and can afford) :-)