North elections within walking distance?

Johnny_the_fox

It has been reported that a breakthrough deal is on the cards in the North and the the IRA are set to start a major act of weapons decommissioning.

Reported by the BBC
There is intense speculation that after weeks of negotiations involving the key players in Northern Ireland's political process, a deal to restore devolution has been achieved......
The deal is also believed to include a third act of decommissioning by the IRA.

A big question IMO: is Sinn Fein to join the Policing Board as part of this deal?
Also could mean another new start to North of Ireland?

dathi1

looks good......does this mean a united Ireland is now on the cards?

Lennoxschips

If they manage to get along with one another up there then who cares what country they're in.

bug

If they manage to get along with one another up there then who cares what country they're in.

well they do care...isnt that most of the problem in the first place..what with loyalists wanting to remain part of Britain and what not

<edit>britain meaning: monarchy in northwestern Europe occupying most of the British Isles; divided into England and Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland</edit>

Sparks

Originally posted by bug
well they do care...isnt that most of the problem in the first place..what with loyalists wanting to remain part of Britain and what not

The UK surely, not Britain?

dathi1

The UK surely, not Britain?

now come on ...they want to be British
trimble is now at the most delicate stage in his career...he has a hard sell on the crads in the next few days.

Jaffus

I guess at the moment peace in the North is creeping closer just as long as some Unionists stop moaning and complaing over the fine print of a thing that will bring all envolved peace and piece of mind.......I would like one of them with me when im next out shopping for a T.V, imagion all those discounts they could get for you.

Qadhafi

<edit>britain meaning: monarchy in northwestern Europe occupying most of the British Isles; divided into England and Scotland and Wales and Northern Ireland</edit>

I dont think thats correct, is that just made up

They really are dragging this peace process out arent they, 1994 since the first ceasefire. 10 years on and they are still at it. well best of luck to them, maybe in another 10 years things will be properly normal. But honestly I didnt think it would take 10 years to do a deal.:eek:

Jaffus

10 years ain't so bad all those fabulous politicians have still been geeting Worldwide attention, invited to Dublin,London and New York.If they just decided to simply agree they would all dissapear back into the woodwork again which and lose their sense of self-importance.

Pompey Magnus

Originally posted by Johnny_the_fox

A big question IMO: is Sinn Fein to join the Policing Board as part of this deal?

the answer to this is no, at least it's not a part of the deal! Sinn Fein has to have a special Ard Fheis if it is to join the policing board with a democratic vote of members and there has been no mention of one being called, and considering the SDLP claiming they could impliment Patton from the inside by joining the board and doing sweet **** all I don't see the grass roots voting for it unless the prize of the justice position going to SF in the new assembly is enough to change minds!

star gazer

britain meaning: monarchy in northwestern Europe occupying most of the British Isles;
Qadhafi

you mean the Irish Isles

Two steps forward, one step back, it'll drag out a little while longer, but in the end SF and the UUP won't be able to walk away without a deal before the elections. If the elections go the wrong way they can always come back to the table and take back some of what they sacrificed.

bug

I dont think thats correct, is it just made up

http://www.realdictionary.com/B/dir/Britain.asp

not that I particularly agree with the definition or nit picking but here you are

Jaffus

Just cut the North off from the rest of Ireland and let it sink.....just like the Titanic,George Best,Alex Higgans and DeLorean did.

Agent Smith

sounds the best option so far!

Cork

The current debate on the IRA giving details of weapons it has decommissioned should not put the Peace Process on hold.

Surely, the IRA could give the Unionists a idea of the tonnage of weapons decommissioned?

Or instead - how many tons of weapons remain?

Weapons should have been decommissioned years ago. The NI Assembly should be making decisions for the people who elected it.

][cEMAN**

Originally posted by Jaffus
Just cut the North off from the rest of Ireland and let it sink.....just like the Titanic,George Best,Alex Higgans and DeLorean did.

How about a world wide law that all bigots should be shot on sight. Oh look there's one now *BANG*

Originally posted by agent smith
sounds the best option so far!

Why thank you smith - I do think it's a good idea!

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
Surely, the IRA could give the Unionists a idea of the tonnage of weapons decommissioned?

From what I know of the situation, all parties agreed to terms and conditions before the process got underway.

What is now happening is that the IRA are working within that agreed-upon framework, and hte Unionists are saying that its not acceptable because they want more information.......which begs the question as to what the hell they thought they were doing when they agreed to the process structure in the first place.

I agree that it may appear to be in everyone's interest that the IRA simply kowtow to pressure and issue this information, but that would strike me as simply not being the case.

If they capitulate, they establish the precedent that agreed-upon structures can be discarded simply because the Unionists claim that they no longer find them acceptable. They therefore risk signing the death-knoll of the peace-process, as they open themselves up to any demand the Unionists see fit to make.

The Unionists make large noises about the lack of trust that can be placed in the IRA, based on their "scant" compliance with the peace process. They wish to build something stronger by deciding not to comply with the terms and conditions themselves.

While at a media-centric or populist level, the Unionists may be seen to be the good guys, holding out for a more convincing promise of peace, in actual fact they are doing so by insisting that the peace process be compromised in order to appease themselves.

And through all that, they have the bare-boned cheek to say that it is the republicans who fundamentally cannot be trusted.

All I have is this to ask them : If you're not going to stick to an agreement you signed, guys, what makes you any different?

jc

Mighty_Mouse

God Dam them unionist! I just can't understand how these people can continue to satisfy short-term political needs and sacrifice the northern peace process in doing so!!!

Both parties agreed to leave decommissioning to the Independant authoritys set up to oversee such acts.

Decommissioning was agreed to occur under certain terms , to turn around and try to change the terms of decommissioning half way thru the peace process is crazy. Its unbelievable really, because decommissioning wouldnt have happened in the first place under unionist terms.

For the people who would like northern Ireland to be cut off and sank please remember that millions of Irish people live in Northern Ireland. I suppose ye would agree to cut limerick off and get rid of it also!!!

sceptre

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse
I suppose ye would agree to cut limerick off and get rid of it also!!!

I would if I can be president. I live three floors up in the middle of Limerick so I'll probably survive the flood.

Cork

Originally posted by Mighty_Mouse


Decommissioning was agreed to occur under certain terms , to turn around and try to change the terms of decommissioning half way thru the peace process is crazy. Its unbelievable really, because decommissioning wouldnt have happened in the first place under unionist terms.

I see where ye are coming from but for the sake of the Good Friday Agreement - it surely would not be out of order for the IRA to kick start the Peace Process by letting people know what was decomissioned.

After the forthcoming elections - SF & the DUP could be the largest partys.

What possibly could follow is - years of direct rule by the UK government.

Éomer of Rohan

The GFA is not the answer to the political woes of the North - in fact it is an institutionalisation of sectarianism - that it is bilateral sectarianism doesn't make a shred of difference to the fact that it puts four sectarian parties, two of which will never agree on how to solve anything except business need for tax reduction, into power - not a solution.

bonkey

Originally posted by Éomer of Rohan
The GFA is not the answer to the political woes of the North - in fact it is an institutionalisation of sectarianism - that it is bilateral sectarianism doesn't make a shred of difference to the fact that it puts four sectarian parties, two of which will never agree on how to solve anything except business need for tax reduction, into power - not a solution.

Bot those parties represent the four largest sections of the community. To form any type of government which did not have representation from these groups would be an even bigger disaster - not to mention a "way forward" that would never have been accepted in the first place.

Or is this just a dig at how unworkable notions like democracy, democratic representation, etc. are, to be followed by an argument that what the North really needs is a different political ideology as a solution

Originally posted by Cork
it surely would not be out of order for the IRA to kick start the Peace Process by letting people know what was decomissioned.

Nor would it be out of order for the Unionists to stop bitching and moaning that every single step the IRA / Republicans take is too little / not sincere / not transparent / not whatever enough, and to actually turn around for once and say "we are glad to see that progress is being made, but would like to request that the following be considered for the future".

If you're going to bitch about the decomissioning process, you do so before a decomissioning event. If the Unionists wanted to play their cards intelligently to get more transparency, they would have welcomed this event with open arms, cried aloud to the masses about how great a step forward it was, and then quietly mention that "we have to remember, though, that as we progress and as each side gains the others trust, it is only reasonable to expect that greater transparency will be forthcoming in this process".

But no....they chose to go jumping up and down and throwing a tantrum my kid sister couldn't rival about how crap the system they've already agreed to is....but wouldn't do so until it was actually used.

So, take something from the IRA, give nothing in return, and have some then say that it is the IRA who should be making the gesture of goodwill........sorry, but I ain't buying that. Not even on a two-for-one special offer.

jc

Éomer of Rohan

Quoted from Bonkey
Bot those parties represent the four largest sections of the community. To form any type of government which did not have representation from these groups would be an even bigger disaster - not to mention a "way forward" that would never have been accepted in the first place.

Not to put too fine a point on it but those four parties don't represent the majority of the community. Even leaving aside the flaws of party politics and mismatching viewpoints and voting for a party which you don't entirely agree with, if you take apathetics and smaller party voters, the top four are only a part of the community, not the whole of it.

Quoted from Bonkey
what the North really needs is a different political ideology as a solution

You know, if I was Sand, I'd have put that in my signature lol

][cEMAN**

Originally posted by Éomer of Rohan
Not to put too fine a point on it but those four parties don't represent the majority of the community. Even leaving aside the flaws of party politics and mismatching viewpoints and voting for a party which you don't entirely agree with, if you take apathetics and smaller party voters, the top four are only a part of the community, not the whole of it.

OK so they're not the whole of the community but I think Bonkey's right that they do together represent the majority of the community. If this wasn't the case i'm pretty certain that there would be other groups with more support. Majority would be 50%+. If it's exactly 50% or less in total for these 4 groups then there must be out of the remaining 50% some grouping of people or political views which are large enough to necessitate another major political party.

I agree that these parties don't necessarily represent the views of people who vote for them, but then I don't think you'll ever get a party who you agree with 100%. After all they have their own opinions which may not always be the same as your own, but they may be similar enough for you to choose them over the other parties.

Éomer of Rohan

Quoted from Iceman
OK so they're not the whole of the community but I think Bonkey's right that they do together represent the majority of the community. If this wasn't the case i'm pretty certain that there would be other groups with more support

I'm not so sure - think of the huge numbers of people disillusioned with the political processes across ALL OF EUROPE, not just northern ireland. The other groups get fringe support but if we discount both apathetics and fringe parties (UKUP, PUP, 32Counties, Alliance) then I am almost certain that the majority of people in NI are not represented - I am checking this right now though.