Upgrading an analog dish?

lamaq

I was just wondering if its possible to upgrade an old analog astra satellite dish into one that could pick up BBC FTA.

From what I've heard (don't know if its true or not) only a small part of the dish needs to be replaced?

Mossy Monk

no such thing as an analogue dish, they are all the same

if there is a universal lnb nothing needs to be changed, if not you must get one

Capt'n Midnight

Depends on what you have and what you want.

(Generic answer before specific)

There are three things
the LNB - old LNB's can only pick up lower bands where as newer universal ones can pick both low and high. cf. radios SW AM LW and FM - the old LNB would be like a radio that can only pick up AM and FM but not shorrt wave or longwave.

The next thing is the which satellite the dish points at - the three most common are Hotbird @ 13, Astra 1 @ 19 (old sky analog) and Astra 2 @ 28 (BBC etc.) - ie you may need to move the dish by an inch or two measured at the lnb / end of the arm (yes that is how close the satellites are) - ie move the arm of the disk to the East a smidgen - you will need a sat finder to do this or a borrowed FTA receiver that has both Astra I and Astra 2 channels because you need to calibrate the existing LNB.

The third thing is the Receiver - THIS MUST BE A DIGITAL RECEIVER if you want to receiver digital - can be a SKY DIGIBOX, but does not have to be.


Next what channels do you want to see ?

If you only want to see BBC then you should be able to use the EXISTING LNB since they are low frequency channels - though you have to tell the reveiver you are not using a universal LNB.

eg: for Digibox- Services - then 401 quickly and then in the LNB menu you may need to set the LNB to 10000 and the 22KHz to off. NOTE: check the frequencies of the existing analog channels against the advertised ones first - I've two old Amstrad LNB's supposedly 10000MHz - one is 9993 the other is 9997 .. (this is where the auto search on a borrowed reciever can be used to find a channel to check the freq against)

I don't think the old LNB will pickup 327 TCM movies or 455 Chart music channel..

Capt'n Midnight

OR
buy a second hand SKY box and take the dish and LNB too.
If all you want is BBC this is the handiest since you get the EPG - program guides..

or www.satellite.ie have a universal LNB for €30 which you should be able to use on your existing dish - they also do a FTA box for €139.

If you change the LNB - change the cable too to be on the safe side and get some waterproffing silicone tape (NOT PVC electical tape - it won't keep anything waterproof for the years you need)

A lot depends on the accessibility of the Dish

watty

Actually, even the non-universal LNB *Will* receive BBC on a Digital receiver and all other FTA channels up to about 12GHz.

You edit LNB LO low from 9.75 to 10.000
You edit Switch frequency from 11.7 to 12.000 or set LO High also to 10Ghz instead of 10.6


Modern receivers can tune 750MHz to 2150MHz and use almost any LNB.

A UNIVERSAL LNB has two bands (some were used on Analog systems) an Standard or Enhanced LNB has one band.

So with a Standard LNB the highest channel is about 10.000 + 2.150 = 12.150 GHz, with Enhanced is 9.75 + 2.15 = 11.90 and with Universal (9.75 and 10.6 modes) it is 10.6 + 2.15 = 12.750GHz.

With a universal LNB the normal settings are:
LO low (tone off) = 9.75
LO high (tone on) = 10.6
Switch frequency (tone on/off change) = 11.7 (not critical as the sums will show there is some overlap)

So ONLY the plugged in receiver is *analog* or *digital*.

Even the signals on Digital Satellite are analog. The "Digital" tuner has a kind of Modem for QPSK (Satellite), QAM (Cable) or CODFM/QAM (Terrestrial / MMDS)

The SR (22,000 or 27,500) in Digibox menu is similar to a baud rate setting for a modem. Non-Sky Digital can be from 1500 to 40,000 depending on transponder / Satellite.


ANY digital Satellite receiver can be used for BBC, but tha Sky Digital box is best:
* No tuning, Sky sets the channels automatically even if they change.
* Only on Sky box does BBC Interactive, Sky Interactive (Sky News) and Digital text work.


Don't confuse "Freeview" the mostly BBC sponsered Terrestrial Digital system in UK and BBC "Free to View" on Satellite.


Now what else did you want to know?

lamaq

Thanks for all the information.

First off I would be using the dish to get the BBC channels and possibly ITV and Channel 4 as well (in which case I would buy an old digibox and card.

I'm not sure where the dish points to exactly. It was bought around 1990 and picked up mainly german channels from what I remember. It hasn't been used in about ten years and the receiver has been lost. Moving the dish to point in the right direction shouldn't be a problem.

As for what type of dish it is I've no idea. There is no markings on it that I can see and I don't think it ever came with a manual.

Mossy Monk

check the lnb and see what type it is

for German analogue it is pointing at 19.2° East. it needs to be turned to 28.2° East for BBC 1, 2 etc.

watty

Which will involve moving the tilt down slightly as well as moving dish east by 9 degrees (1/40th of a revolution/ circumference of the pole).

Wrap a strip of paper and mark one revolution at point of over lap.

Lay flat and mark with ruler approx 1/40 of pole circumference. Now you can use this taped to pole as a guide how much to move east. Then VERY slowly tilt down till signal on bar appeares or improves.

(You can't adjust on a channel on Digital as either there is a picture or not.)

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by watty
Lay flat and mark with ruler approx 1/40 of pole circumference. Now you can use this taped to pole as a guide how much to move east. Then VERY slowly tilt down till signal on bar appeares or improves

that's a great idea. any other lengths for different satellites if lets say the dish was focused on 19.2° East

Capt'n Midnight

You could also invest in a protractor (or if you know someone going to school you could rob one of their impliments of maths instruction.)

The main other satellite is Hotbird 6 degrees the other way 1/60 of a circle (or 1/15 of a right angle or 1/10 of a equilateral triangle)

lamaq

I checked the LNB and couldn't find anything that showed who made it.

I also arranged to get a loan of a digibox which I should get at the weekend hopefully. I'll do a post on how I get on then.

P.S. I think I probably will use a protractor to find the satellite.

watty

I found a protracter not much use as it could not be positioned correctly. (Where is the center of the pole?) Also not much good for a dish part way up a tall pole.

As long as you actually have one known satellite and the pole is not too skinny then the strip of paper works.

I now have a "master mark" on the dish bracket and pencil lines at each of the "correct" positions I have been at. I made an angled pole that could rotate and tilt on main pole so as to do a Polar Alignment. Once you have that correct the dish can be rotated on the angled pole and never needs LNB skew nor Dish elevation (tilt up/down ) adjusted.

The angled pole (no matter where you live always points North/south at Pole Star) and angle depends on distance north. About 56 degrees in Limerick. The Dish is tilted about 5 degrees down.

It is hard to see the real vertical angles with an offset dish unless its mount is calibrated.