Beech Hedge??

Villain

Hi I posted here a few months back asking for some advice on Landscaping a 1 acre site.

Well I've got drawings back from a Landscape Architect and I want to ask a question.

The Architect has drawn in a boundary hedge for site consisting of various different hedging and small trees. He has to finalise the plan yet with details of what will go into this hedge.

I had always maintained that a Beech hedge would be the best, i.e looks nice and has low maintenace.

I reckon the cost of a Beech hedge would also be cheaper.

Can anyone offer any advice.

PH01

Beech tree hedge will require maintenance just like another hedge - although you may only have to do it every 10 years or so

Cost wise they can be as cheap as €0.90 to €1.28 per plant if bought as bare root. Potted plants will be about 3 to 4 times dearer.
Have a look at Coillte site

What your architect has suggested sounds great. A mixed border can be very attractive and well as benefitial to the garden if the right species are are chosen.

Villain

Thanks for the INFO,

I know the mixed boundary might llok better but I'd imagine it will cost a lot more and be harder to maintain.

Theres going to be about 1/2 an acre of a lawn when is the earliest we could hope to sow this??

Thanks

PH01

Do you mean that there is no grass there at the moment?

Anyway it's a big job sowing ½ an acre - you may need to get the pros in for that one.
All that racking, weeding, stone picking, racking, stamping-down, racking, leveling, stamping down, racking, sowing, sowing, sowing, racking, racking, rolling and that should do it.
Spring time would be the best time for this kind of job. Go for a couple of days in March

Villain

Thanks,

There is a rough kind of grass in bits, but theres a lot of top soil polied up around the place.

We will be getting the pro's in, just wondering is March the earliest we could possible sow the lawn?

PH01

In many parts of the country grass grows all year round, so you could sow anytime you like. But watch out for frost on those little grassies - wee grass doesn't like frost.

And don't be in a rush to put down a lawn. Alternatively, you could put down instant lawn that comes in rolls.

Villain

Thanks PH01.

The site is in Carlow so Frost is pretty common. I suppose we'l just have to wait. I reckon that instant lawn would cost a pretty penny.

theres no reason why they couldn't have it raked and ready for sowing do is there?

emmemm

seed sown on fresh soil works best.Job best done in a dry spell in early April.

Villain

OK we got a quote form the first landscaper we approached.

14,000 Euro for the lawn, hedgeing, patio and various planted areas. This does not include the driveway or entrance.

I thought it was a bit over the top, but an a sister of the old fellas works in a garden shop and she reckoned it would be 20,000.

It's a nice plan but very simple so hard to see where all the expense is.

We have another landscaper coming this saturday.

I could scan in the drawings over the weekend if anyone thought they could offer some advice.

slave1

ask him to break the quote down between material and labour
try and take the conversation that you may want to get him to source the material and you'll take care of the dogsbody as you can't afford his labour/profit element
needlesstosay as a deal breaker CASH

oh yeah, scan it in for the crack

ps do you now own this design?

Villain

He gave us a break down but I haven't had time to look at it in detail yet. I'm away from home till Friday.

The design is ours now we agreed a seperate sum for that. He has to provide me with the .dwg version on disk yet do.

I'l scan it in friday or saturday.

He said he'l go 1,200 for cash!

Victor

Originally posted by irish1
The design is ours now we agreed a seperate sum for that. He has to provide me with the .dwg version on disk yet do.

Most people won't be able to read a *.dwg (AutoCAD) drawing. A *.tiff reader might, but no guarantee. Ask him what he thinks is less than good value.

I'm a quantity surveyor, do you want to copy me with the quote and I'll take a look at it for you.

Villain

I requested it in *DWG I have AutoCad 2004 and can convert it myself.

What do you mean when you say

Ask him what he thinks is less than good value.

Victor

I passed a garage today and they had cars for €49,000. If all I need to get from A to B is a bicycle, why spend €49,000?

In other words is he including expensive / time-consuming work, e.g. expensive planter pots or rare species, that isn't good value for money?

Villain

Gotcha, Well he said he was going for a middle of the road kind of spec. The lawn is very expensive because its over 1/2 acre in size. I was thinking of a beech head as a surrounding hedge as I've said he is going with a mixture of trees which is bound to be more expensive but more appealing.

Decisions, decisions.

Anyone got any ideas for the driveway, not Tarmacadam do it would look right out of place??

Victor

Originally posted by irish1
Anyone got any ideas for the driveway, not Tarmacadam do it would look right out of place??

You could just go for a compacted hardcore base with say gravel / granite chippings (cheapest) or tarmac (next cheapest) or concrete / brick paviors (most expensive). The advantage of chippings is they tend not to retain surface water and can be patched "seamlessly" but they can settle more than hard surface and there is a risk of throwing up stones.

If you go for chippings, make sure the last 6 metres or so are of a level solid material to ensure you can brake going in / out the gate and that the chippings won't be spread onto the public road (safety hazard / litter).

Villain

Thanks for the advice Victor.

I'm ordering a few tonne of 804 or 806 cos the ground is quite wet and mucky.

Anyone got any Idea how expensive cobble stones would be??

I know Chippings are cheap but I hate the way the wheels spin in the loose.

Victor

Originally posted by irish1
Thanks for the advice Victor.

I'm ordering a few tonne of 804 or 806 cos the ground is quite wet and mucky.

Anyone got any Idea how expensive cobble stones would be??

I know Chippings are cheap but I hate the way the wheels spin in the loose.

Expect to pay about €30-40/m2 plus kerbs, depending on type. Rela stone cobbles would be much more expensive - could be €100+/m2.

Tarmac €20-30/m2.

Of course "all depending".

Villain

Originally posted by Victor
Expect to pay about €30-40/m2 plus kerbs, depending on type. Rela stone cobbles would be much more expensive - could be €100+/m2.

Tarmac €20-30/m2.

Of course "all depending".

Is that laid including labour or is that cost?

Victor

Originally posted by irish1
Is that laid including labour or is that cost?

Laid including labour, but as I said ....

Victor

Of course you can spend €400-500/m2 on a granite driveway .....

Villain

Well Victor if my numbers come up sat night I might just do that!!!

I tell ya the expense of building a one off house is fecking crazy.

Villain

Heres the design

Victor

I'd try to cut down the planting somewhat and break up the straight lines on the lawn (to some degree at least). Putting all the plants between the house and the nearest corner of the site (near conservatory / porch - odd direction to face the house) doesn't make a huge amount of sense, unless you have particular privacy concerns. I know it's the front of the house, but it doesn't look right to me somehow.

I would also cut down around the garage if possible - however don't put grass in tiny areas that are unmanageable to cut and keep tidy along the borders.

How about a feature in the centre of the lawn? (but beware footballs, etc.) The full circle driveway while handy, doubles it in size and will be more expensive to lay, but not maintain.

How well can you do a 3-point turn?

Villain

Thanks for the reply. The Lawn will be rounded off i.e no corners.

I want to put a Beech hedge in with some mature trees in the bottom corners. All those scrubs will cost a fortune.

Still undecided about the drive way. Cobble would be nice but expensive.


Ya I was thinking of splitting the lawn down the middle and having a path way throw with some trees down the middle.

Theres not that big an area in the corner you talk about it looks bigger on the plan.

Victor

Above post amended

Originally posted by irish1
Thanks for the reply. The Lawn will be rounded off i.e no corners.

I mean something like this:

Villain

Nice idea but what would you put in the gaps??


Thanks again its great to get another opinion

Victor

Just have more or less shrubs (in width) in one place that the other. In the indents have more (cheap!) grass. My line should be closer to the boundary - sorry.

Villain

The site is a bit weird, you see the entrance well thats onto a private lane. Theres a right of way running to the front of the house so theres a fence there so the shrubs are to cover that house is turned the way it is because it sloops dow towards the lawn very sharply and the conservatory is placed where it is to catch the sun all day.

Villain

HEY got NEW LANDSCPER and he agrees with my idea of a beech hedge, thanks god coz the auld lad would never of listened to me.

Anyone got any good web-sites for types of plants and shrubs to grow??

Victor

www.Coillte.ie have an on-line store, not sure if it has pictures though, try www.google.ie otherwise.

daveg

Having had our grounds done last year I said I'd post our experiences for Irish1. I nearly dropped my coffee cup when I read the €14,000. Our grounds are also on 1 acre and the layout is pretty much the same as your scan.

First thing we had done were curbs. Our grounds were on a slope so we knew we would need loads of top soil. You need to have your curbs in before your top soil goes in. If your only spreading top soil this may not be as much of a concern (make sure the grass underneath is killed off just before. You might want to consider turning the soil. Our curbs cost approx £2 per curb.

We shopped around for quotes for the machine work (digger and such). We did not use a landscape gardener as they were about 3 times more expensive than the quotes we got for JCB/Digger and driver hire. We got 3 quotes. 2 were competative and broke down as follows:

1. Grounds excavated and leveled & top soil provided (approx 15-20 loads). Stones removed with stone picking machine. Lawn completely seeded. €4K

2. Grounds excavated and leveled. Top soil @ €120 per load. Loose shale dropped on driveway €100 per load. Grounds left to be raked and seeded. Digger + driver hire €20ph. Truck hire for dropping of soil €10ph. Approx €3K

We went with option 2 which I later regreted (explained later). It was hard to judge amount of top soil needed but we estimated 15-20 loads which would leave a gradual slope at the back (which would be good for drainage). The guy who gave us option 2 was excellent. He had a guy in for 5 days at which time all the grounds were done but in the end we needed more top soil which brought us up to the €3K. He dropped the shale for free.

We now needed to seed the lawn. I raked the front to what I thought would be ok and nearly killed myself. If your not used to it or do not know what your doing forget it. We got a neighbour (landscape gardener) who ripped us off. We gave him €500 to rake and seed (we provide seed) front and back. Great deal we thought :rolleyes: . We had to arrange a power rotavator and tractor for the back (€100) & a tractor and roller for front and back. He did about 1 days work as the machinary we hired did the work for him. He made a fúck of the back as he picked no stones.

Anyway... that was it. Sorry for ranting on but for €3,500 we had our lawns completed (plus seed - grade 2 front and back total about €100). For the same job a landscape gardener would have been approx €7K. Option 1 would have been approx €500 more but I felt a better job would have been done.

Headging will be completed hopefully next Sept/Oct and I estimate it will cost approx €1500 for beech/mixed for a 1 acre boudary.

My one word of advice would be make sure you are 100% happy with the work done before you hand over the cash. There are too many cowboys out there that will do a half assed job for the cash.

Villain

Thanks a million for the advice daveg.

I'm meeting with the new landscaper tomorrow to try and thrash out a deal.

Basically what I decided now is that the lanscaper will do the following:

Rake and sow lawn, put in the beech hedge, and do the planting around the patio, in front of the house and other small planting areas.

I have a Hi-Mac and driver coming in 3 weeks to do the following, move marle that is on site to raise the level of the patio to the required height, level site to my levels to ensure there will be no surface water. Level top soil that is on site. Spread and track 806 hardcore.

We have decided to do away with the driveway all round the house. This leaves 670m2 of driveway, now thats a big area and at €30m2 thats €20,000!!!!!!. So we'r rethinking the driveway.

DaveG what driveway have you or are you intending putting down?

Thanks again

daveg

No worries irish1 glad I can be of help.

Firstly (and I don't mean to genralise) I would be very wary of landscapers. In my experience and from advice we were given they tend to be expensive and sometimes ridiculously so. I even heard that some landscapers have so much work they price everything at a really high price as they can pick and choose jobs. I'm not saying all or even the magority are like that but just passing on my experiences. As I said our guy screwed us and did a very bad job.

Rake and sow lawn, put in the beech hedge, and do the planting around the patio, in front of the house and other small planting areas.

For the price the landscaper will charge you to rake and sow the lawn could hire a power rotavator and tractor, after the hi-mac has been in, to level the soil, turn up all the stones. All you need to do then is pick the large stones and rake it level. From what I've seen the rotavator does all the hard work. You can then get a tractor with a roller to roll the grounds after seeding.

DaveG what driveway have you or are you intending putting down?

Origionally we had very rough stones around the drive. After we had the grounds done we got 3 lorry loads (€100 per load approx) of fine shale dropped. The guys used the JCB to spread the shale. We were told to wait a few years before tarmacing the drive to let the drive "settle".

Any other Q's let me know. If you want to chat for advice let me know and I'll PM my number.

Victor

Originally posted by daveg
First thing we had done were curbs.

Common mistake. Do you mean "kerbs" - the bits at the edges of roads and paths?

Originally posted by daveg
Origionally we had very rough stones around the drive. After we had the grounds done we got 3 lorry loads (€100 per load approx) of fine shale dropped. The guys used the JCB to spread the shale. We were told to wait a few years before tarmacing the drive to let the drive "settle".

Alternatively you can get a vibrating compactor (yes "vibrator") to do the job in a day or two. You should be able to get them from a builders' hire place.

Villain

Thanks again daveg,

The new landscaper is friend of a friend and meant to be very good, but I'm not going to go throwing money at him, so I'l let you know how tommorrow's meeting go's. I would do a lot more work myself but can't due to time constraints. The auld got broke up in a car accident years ago so he can't do anything so, he wants to get a nice job done that will be as low maintenace as possible.

The other landscaper had the lawn at €1500, which I don't think would be expensive at all.

The drive is a big worry at the moment, the price is going to be very very high.

Thanks again DaveG .

Victor I called roadstone and there Drivestone paving is €20m2 including Vat. Just wondering if you had any idea what the charge for installing it would be??

Victor

Originally posted by irish1
Victor I called roadstone and there Drivestone paving is €20m2 including Vat. Just wondering if you had any idea what the charge for installing it would be??

Account holders will get a discount from Roadstone - see if you can set up an account and buy the hardcore sand and bricks from them.

I don't know the Drivestone range, but if it is a brick type product, I would guess €15/m2 on top of the cost of hardcore underneath (add for kerbs, cutting, special patterns, mixed colours, etc.). That’s €20,000, so I suggest you only do the bits you need to do (slopes, paths and front of house and parking hardstandings - all areas that get that extra bit of wear and tear). When evaluating any prices make sure you are happy the guy will lay them flat and compact the hardcore / bricks properly for you, otherwise they just settle with time, wear and rain.

Be wary of any edge that is likely to receive repeated bashing - they eventually dip, if the edge isn't set in concrete.

Found link http://www.roadstone.ie/resources/pdfs/Drivestone.pdf

Villain

Thanks Victor,

I had printed off that pdf file along with the bergarac one, there nice but expensive.

Tar and chippings are what the alterative appear to be theres a name on it but I can't remember it, any idea on the cost of that.

Victor

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?postid=1195260#post1195260

There are quite a few specifications you can go by, from cheap and nasty Tarmac (tends to retain some stickiness over tiem to asphalt). Just get a few quotews from reputable installers.

Not sure on thinkness though, motorways can easily be 400mm think, car parks 200mm, you you are probably looking at 75mm or less, not my speciality. At home the resurfaced (in addition to existing) the cul-de-sac outside my parents house with 20mm and much of it had come off within 10 years.

Villain

New lanscaper said 12,000!! excluding the sleepers fro the front so thats about 13-14k!!

Went back to the first landscaper and he's doing a revised price with my changes to the plan. Will be interesting to see what it comes to

Falkorre

Just a quick thought u might wanna consider at this stage.
Might be worth bearing wheelchair access in mind, if not for you think about
elderly relatives or friends or simply the possibilities future.
Personally, I have relatives whos houses I have never even seen because Id never make it in there on my chair and it would make them feel terrible if I tried.

Can be done in simple ways that make no relative difference to cost and wont detract from the look in any way.
On that point, gravel drives etc are a "nightmare" for wheelchairs, impossible to get thru without getting stuck in.

B

Villain

Thanks for your post, the house interior is fully wheel chair freindly, all doors are wider, all switches are lower etc.

I take your point about the driveway, my da is on crutches at the moment but in years to come he may be in a chair. He wants to put down the tar and chippings now and then if he ends up in a wheelchair and finds it tough he will tarmacadam the drive.