Credit Rating/Debt Woes

LegacyUser

I know this should probably be in finance or something, but wanted to post unregged. Anyway, mods can move if they deem necessary. Here's the story;

Back in 1997 I ran up a credit card bill of about £1,500, and phone bills of maybe £200 a piece with Esat and Eircell. I forgot about them, and threw away/destroyed the credit card.

Since then i've lived in numerous different places, including abroad, and I've been told, that after 5 years your credit rating is cleared??! Haven't been able to verify this. Anyone?

I returned to Ireland in 1999, and have since opened 2 new bank accounts, one I no longer use, and about 8 months ago opened up a new BOI account. Got myself a laser card, an overdraft, and have a joint savings account with my girlfriend. No worries.

I had a relative have a friend of theirs check out my credit rating and apparently I'm clear. So, I applied for a Mastercard (not Visa as I had before) with my bank and was refused. Grand, so apparently I'm not clear. My relative checked again and said, no you should be clear. So I tried for finance on a home entertainment setup in Dixons - I was refused. Didn't get a reason.

I'd like to know, has anybody else gone through a similar situation, in trying to clear themselves of debt/restore their credit rating. How would you go about this? Anybody any experience of it?

I've checked www.oasis.gov.ie and www.ifha.ie and I'm going to post off for my credit rating myself, and see where I can take it from there, but can anyone offer any advice or insight on this?

Thanks, much appreciated!

K!LL!@N

Did you pay the money you owed back?

Beruthiel

Originally posted by InDebt
I know this should probably be in finance or something, but wanted to post unregged. Anyway, mods can move if they deem necessary

you would probably get the answers you require in Bus/Eco/Fin,
would you like me to move it now that you have posted it in here unregged, or did you intend to make further comments?

Have you asked your Bank the reason for the refusal?
They should tell you.
If the debt is still recorded which obviously it is, I'm afraid you have no choice but to ask your bank for a loan to clear it off.
Otherwise, your poor credit rating is going to damage your chances of getting a mortgage.
It may not damage your chances of getting a small term loan though

mm

LegacyUser

Originally posted by K!LL!@N
Did you pay the money you owed back?

No I didn't. Obviously! That's what I'm wondering about the 5 year thing. Is it true?

beruthiel, you can go ahead and move it, I think I've explained my situation clearly. Cheers.

rachel

Obviously an adverse credit rating won't help but that isn't the only thing that lenders will look at.
Repayment capacity is another big one.

You are also entitled to reasons for a decline so if that didn't happen too long ago then you should get back on to them and ask for the reason(s).

As for the 5 yr thing, you may be cleared from the ICB as having had bad debts (that I don't know) but the bank/credit card co. probably wrote you off as a bad debt and have it on record still.

BuffyBot

Your record with a credit reference agency may differ to the records of each finiancial institution - so yes, you may get refused even if the debt has been cleared due to bad records.

Specky

So let's get this straight...

You spent a load of money that didn't belong to you, you left the country without paying it back, now you've returned hoping that everyone will have forgotten about it and forgiven you and now you'd like to do it all over again....

Well I for one will not apologise for being less that sympathetic to your predicament.

I certainly don't claim that I've never had debt problems in the past but the solution I've found works best (both for my credit rating and my conscience) is to pay off the debt.

Oriel

As far as I know, banks and the like won't just give out credit to anybody who doesn't have a bad history.

Like anything else, you have to work up a *good* credit history (paying bills on time, repaying loans etc) before they'll give you anything.

It's not just a case of not having a bad history.

...maybe I'm wrong though.

Victor

Originally posted by rachel
As for the 5 yr thing, you may be cleared from the ICB as having had bad debts (that I don't know) but the bank/credit card co. probably wrote you off as a bad debt and have it on record still.

For this type of debt, the statute of limitiations (Statute of Limitations Acts, 1957, 1991, 2000) is 6 years, not 5. And they can keep records for as long as is reasonable (Data Protection Act). you could just pay off the debt and clear your name.

1957 act http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA6Y1957.html
1991 act http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA18Y1991.html
2000 act http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA13Y2000.html

eth0_

I also have no sympathy for you. You're a thief, basically. If you can't take responsibility for a debt of two grand, how the hell can you handle a mortgage!
What I find odd is why there's no warrant or something for you, if you're using the same name and the bank has given you a laser card surely something must have come up on your credit records saying you're a bad debtor and owe X amount?

As to why you're not now getting credit, it's either down to the fact that if your credit rating HAS reset, it's hard to get credit without having some recent credit history.
OR, your bad debt is still on your credit history. As someone already said, it takes SIX years for something dodgy to clear off your credit history, not FIVE! And getting turned down for credit also goes on your credit rating, so it looks like you've really shot yourself in the foot there mate!

And lastly, a bad credit rating sticks to an address as well as your name, so because of you, your previous address in Ireland before you left the country will be tarnished with your bad debt. If you have listed this address as a previous address when filling out an application for credit, it counts against you.

Why don't you get a copy of your credit rating, costs 6 euro (best make sure your cheque to 'em doesn't bounce) and then you can see the whole sorry mess in black and white. And then maybe you can do the decent, grown-up thing and take responsibility for your debt and repay it!

spongebob

Originally posted by Sinecure
Like anything else, you have to work up a *good* credit history (paying bills on time, repaying loans etc) before they'll give you anything.

It's not just a case of not having a bad history.

...maybe I'm wrong though.

You are right, getting and paying back small loans, getting bigger over time , gets you a credit score.

If you never borrowed 200 and cleared it it is hard to get 5000 for starters.

The scum end of the market (finance companies aka the never never) score people who pay their debt back early lower than those who regidly stick to their terms . Banks like it though, banks are not the scum end of the market I find.

M

SCULLY

Originally posted by eth0_
I also have no sympathy for you. You're a thief, basically. If you can't take responsibility for a debt of two grand, how the hell can you handle a mortgage!
What I find odd is why there's no warrant or something for you, if you're using the same name and the bank has given you a laser card surely something must have come up on your credit records saying you're a bad debtor and owe X amount?

As to why you're not now getting credit, it's either down to the fact that if your credit rating HAS reset, it's hard to get credit without having some recent credit history.
OR, your bad debt is still on your credit history. As someone already said, it takes SIX years for something dodgy to clear off your credit history, not FIVE! And getting turned down for credit also goes on your credit rating, so it looks like you've really shot yourself in the foot there mate!

And lastly, a bad credit rating sticks to an address as well as your name, so because of you, your previous address in Ireland before you left the country will be tarnished with your bad debt. If you have listed this address as a previous address when filling out an application for credit, it counts against you.

Why don't you get a copy of your credit rating, costs 6 euro (best make sure your cheque to 'em doesn't bounce) and then you can see the whole sorry mess in black and white. And then maybe you can do the decent, grown-up thing and take responsibility for your debt and repay it!

Good post - my thoughts exactly

Sleipnir

I think you may have the wrong impression about "the debt being written off" and "it takes 6 years for a bad debt to be cleared from your credit history"
If you paid the debt off in full RIGHT NOW, it would take 6 years for this bad debt to be cleared off your record.

1.) You run up 3 grand on your credit card.
2.) You leave the country without paying it.
3.) After trying to contact you for a certain period of time, the bank write it off as a bad debt.
This doesn't mean that the erase the fact that you owe them money, just that the bank aren't counting on getting it back - a bad debt!

If you came home, contacted the bank and they said
"you owe us three grand." You pay them back in full.
The bad debt will be on your credit history for 6 years after that point.
After 6 years, and assuming you've been good from that point on, it's cleared off your credit history.

They don't write off the money you owe them after 5 or 6 years.
That's like a Carlsberg ad!
Otherwise I'd stop paying off my debts right now.

spongebob

The Bank would have sold the debt when it wrote it off, it was sold to a skangery debt recovery agency at 10% of face value or so.

Once the skangery debt reecovery agency find out where you live then you will quickly find out that you now owe THEM the money instead.

M

DaithiSurfer

Thats right. Until you pay off the money you're credit rating will not begin to go up.
Also there is more than one credit agency. You might be clear in one but not in others.
They pass the data on to each other.
Also if you ever apply for a mortgage with your gf you will also tarnish her credit rating.
Basically you're ****ed for ever borrowing money again.

Once the debt recovery that now owns your debt finds you (and they will if you keep applying for loans with your current address on them) you are in the deepest pile of **** anyone could ever experience.

I think its normally more than 10% interest compounded. So you owe an awful lot morw now, and it'll get worse and worse. I used to work in the IT dept of one of these companies and they dont send letters to you. They turn up at your doorstep (if you're lucky, with the police).

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
Thats right. Until you pay off the money you're credit rating will not begin to go up.
Also there is more than one credit agency. You might be clear in one but not in others.
They pass the data on to each other.
Also if you ever apply for a mortgage with your gf you will also tarnish her credit rating.
Basically you're ****ed for ever borrowing money again.

Once the debt recovery that now owns your debt finds you (and they will if you keep applying for loans with your current address on them) you are in the deepest pile of **** anyone could ever experience.

I think its normally more than 10% interest compounded. So you owe an awful lot morw now, and it'll get worse and worse. I used to work in the IT dept of one of these companies and they dont send letters to you. They turn up at your doorstep (if you're lucky, with the police).

Really? Anyone that is owed money must go thru the correct channels in recovery

1. Obtain a judgement in the District Court
2. Seek examination of debtors means.
3 If means are sufficent get an installment order. If not end of story, cant get blood out of a stone. Judgement will last for 12 years.
4. If installment order is ignored, then seek commital to prison.
5. Bankrupt the debtor if the debt is over €2000.

Cant just show up and beat sven shades of **** out of you.

James

Is1ldur

A couple of things you should do.
Firstly check that the Bank or whatever has not secured a Judgement against you. You can do this through a number of companies in Ireland (I actually work for one), but I am not going to advertise here.
Secondly, the Irish Credit Bureau hold credit records of individuals in Ireland. I think it costs about 6-7 euro to get your own mailed out. This will show any loans which you have taken out over the past feww years,(not too sure how far back this goes, but one of the other chaps here mentioned that it only really gets taken off a few years after the debt has been settled). This shows basically how up to date you were with payments on each month a payment was due.
Thing is, even doing this may not help. The banks do keep their own records also, and you will have to write to whoever refused you credit asking why. They may not give a reason, if that is the case, bring out the old Freedom of Info act and get everything they have on you.
Don't take any of this as Gospel, though, I still have trouble with them.

Our man in Havana

The Freedom of Information act does not apply to private companies or banks. However the Data Protection Act 1988-2003 does apply.
They have 40 days to respond to access requests which now include all data whether on computer or paper files. The bank may charge you €6.35 but no more.
If they refuse to comply the Data Protection Commisoner can act.

James

spongebob

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
Thats right. Until you pay off the money you're credit rating will not begin to go up.

Not quite, if he keeps getting loans it will go up.

Also there is more than one credit agency. You might be clear in one but not in others.
They pass the data on to each other.

Thats a risk, more than likely the credit issuer (banks) contacts more than one.

Also if you ever apply for a mortgage with your gf you will also tarnish her credit rating.

She will not be refused per se, if the couple is married the tarnishing could be an issue

Basically you're ****ed for ever borrowing money again.

Yawn, really. if you had READ the first post you would have noted the mention of an overdraft maybe.

Once the debt recovery that now owns your debt finds you (and they will if you keep applying for loans with your current address on them) you are in the deepest pile of **** anyone could ever experience.

If your 6 years are not up already that is feasible. The debt recoverers are a fairly scummy mob. Live within your means for the next year and you should be creditworthy again. You checking your own record is also recorded on the database.

I think its normally more than 10% interest compounded.

It is capped.

I used to work in the IT dept of one of these companies and they dont send letters to you. They turn up at your doorstep (if you're lucky, with the police).

They send letters and THEN they show up. The plod have nothing to do with debt, it is a civil matter.

M

Our man in Havana

They send letters and THEN they show up. The plod have nothing to do with debt, it is a civil matter

Yes they do. If they get a commital order from a court plod will show up to arrest you and take you to the pokey.

eth0_

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
Yes they do. If they get a commital order from a court plod will show up to arrest you and take you to the pokey.

Yer right, he can be done for theft, i'd imagine, after all this time! I'm sure the cops would definitely get involved if he ignored the debt collectors.

Muck - Sure he might build up a credit rating getting a loan, but how the HELL will he get one when his credit rating is surely f*cked? Even that dodgy private bank that does loans and HP through dixons at 30%apr wouldn't give him a loan if they can see what he's done!

Overdrafts are *nothing*! I went into ulster bank a year ago,opened an account and got a 500 euro overdraft on the spot, as in, I could draw money out right after I opened the account. Despite the fact I had forgotten about money I owed BOI on an overdraft and if the banks share info, they'd have known about that.

I also opened a bank account with the Halifax in Belfast and got an overdraft of £200 despite the fact I have absolutely NO credit history in the UK.

Overdrafts are easy to get. Loans and credit cards are not. How d'ya like THAT.

spongebob

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
Yes they do. If they get a commital order from a court plod will show up to arrest you and take you to the pokey.

The plod will show up on their own then not WITH the debt collectors and not until you have been in court and disobbeyed a payment schedule. That involves a load more steps to be taken against our lad who started the thread !

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by Muck
The plod will show up on their own then not WITH the debt collectors and not until you have been in court and disobbeyed a payment schedule. That involves a load more steps to be taken against our lad who started the thread !

I am surprised he is not at this stage by now.

spongebob

did he get a summons?

eth0_

Originally posted by Muck
did he get a summons?

How can he, i'm sure the debt collection agency don't know where he's living...yet.

I wonder where he's gone, hasn't replied to the thread today..

Our man in Havana

Originally posted by eth0_
How can he, i'm sure the debt collection agency don't know where he's living...yet.

I wonder where he's gone, hasn't replied to the thread today..

Probably read all this and has gone into hiding!

eth0_

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
Probably read all this and has gone into hiding!

Yeha, or maybe there are some bailiffs on boards who recognise the story

Jokah

Maybe this has been posted up already. I did see some mention about Oasis somewhere in this post but look here at the Credit Bureau

Also you obviously have a problem with money and all this avoiding will some day catch up with you and you will be caught.

What you do is wrong and I hope you get caught for it. Keep on digging your hole....:D

DaithiSurfer

No they don't send letters first in case you run again before they get to you.
They turn up at your door, ask for your name and (depending on who the collector is) may break your legs or hand you a summons or take the cops to make sure everything goes smoothly. The cops are used as witnesses by these agencies when necessary.
If they don't take the cops you may indeed be dealing with leg breakers so tough.
They do send letters in cases where the person is not likely to dissapear again or if they are a letters type of debt collector.

Overdrafts up to a certain figure are more or less automatic when you open a bank account now.

DaithiSurfer

Also, forgot to mention.
The more loans you apply for the more checks are done on you.
Any check no matter who does it will reduce your rating whether or not you are a good risk. I think the thinking behind this is 'why does this guy apply for so many loans. He must be in trouble'.

Jokah

May he continue to dig his hole....

Soon he will be applying to all those stupid debt clearing companies that advertise during the daytime tv programs....No time for him

spongebob

Originally posted by DaithiSurfer
No they don't send letters first in case you run again before they get to you.
<snip>
They do send letters in cases where the person is not likely to dissapear again or if they are a letters type of debt collector.

The cops only go if there is a possible breach of the peace, or if the agency bribes them. They have no business going as witnesses in a civil case and could be sued for it.

The skanger collectors are the type employed by catalogue companies and the weekly installment merchants. Normally the banks would not sell to that kind of collector but the original collector who bought the debt can sell it on to the verminous ones later on.

M

Victor

Originally posted by Muck
did he get a summons?

As best I know it is adequate to deliver a summons to a person's last known address for it to be deemed served. It need not be served in person.

b20uvkft6m5xwg

the user "InDebt" has asked me to move this back over to PI so they can reply unregged again.

Its a techincal more than a contextual reason, so they can keep there anonymity

Thx
D.

LegacyUser

Thanks 80p...

Anyway, to all those of you preaching and lecturing me on being responsible, and all those hoping I have my legs broken or am put in prison. Cheers. You've really helped me in my search for advice.

To all others who posted a fair/decent reply, thank you.

If you'd all care to read my first post my request is for help and advice on clearing my debt - meaning I want to pay it off. What is the best way I could do this.

My second request was for restoring bad credit. After I've cleared my debt or whatever.

These debts were run up when I was young and stupid. I didn't give a crap at the time what happened. I was in a good job and was paying them off perfectly. Then I was fired - and went into debt. I couldn't get employment here so moved to London. I informed the credit card company of my London address, and asked them to send a giro book, so i could pay my debt at £10 a week. I never received the book.

I worked a shít job in London and never heard from the company again. I forgot about it.

I now wish to pay off my debt and restore my good credit. So all on their high horses please bugger off.

XPThink - I'm trying to dig myself out of a hole. Don't judge when you don't know the circumstances. True... I should have been on top of this before now, but I'm not. My mistake. Which I now want to rectify.

I have never received a summons, even two years ago I applied for finance on a computer. Was refused. No goons came to get me/break my legs, and no summons came.

My two recent finance applications were to prove/disprove the info my relations friend gave saying I was clear. Obviously they were wrong.

Again, all those people with decent/non-scare mongering replies... thanks.

Sleipnir

If you want to clear the debt and get back on an even keel you need to go to the to whom you owe the money and talk to them.
You need to give them details of the address you had, credit card number (if you can remember it) amount owed etc.

Tell them you did it when you were 'young and stupid' but you want to rectify the issue now by paying it off by direct debit month by month.

If they've sold the debt on, you'll have to contact whoever that is.

With regards restoring your bad credit; there isn't really a way to avoid it being on your record, at least for 5 or 6 years.
Pay your debt back, pay your bills on time and if you kep that up, eventually they'll forgive you.

Jokah

Well I stand corrected....

Apologies.....

LegacyUser

Cheers Kananga. I'm gonna wait and see what my credit report says, and then start on paying it off.

XPThink... no worries. Thanks all.

Jokah

You go to the Irish Credit Bureau?

eth0_

Originally posted by InDebt

If you'd all care to read my first post my request is for help and advice on clearing my debt - meaning I want to pay it off. What is the best way I could do this.
I now wish to pay off my debt and restore my good credit. So all on their high horses please bugger off.

Your first post comes across as very blase, and I don't seem to remember you asking for help to pay it off, just asking is it true your credit record is wiped after 5 years, if so hahahah I beat the system. You can't honestly blame me and everyone else for 'getting on our high horse' about your post!

You don't need to get another loan to pay this off. It's not a large amount, not in todays society. You speak to your creditors, and arrange some sort of payment scheme. AFAIK there is some agency which acts as a go-between for you, for free. Can't remember the name though.

And it would probably help put things in perspective if you faced up to things, called your creditors and found out how much you now owe them. If you are so serious about clearing your debt you should have done that by now! If it's true what has been said about compound interest then you're in much deeper.

As for losing your job....did you not have payment protection on your cards?

Victor

Originally posted by eth0_
AFAIK there is some agency which acts as a go-between for you, for free.

www.mabs.ie

shoegirl

With all due respect to InDebt I have been in a much worse position and so I can understand why he feels so intimidated.

Actually his first posting was extremely blase, and as somebody who is cleaning up a much bigger debt problem as a result of an extremely abusive relationship (it sounds like an excuse, but when you live with somebody where the choice is to pay their share of the rent rather than be evicted, the choices are rather limited) it made me extremely angry. Many people in Ireland, lose their jobs or run into financial trouble and most deal with it. Its a common thing according to many debt counsellors for people to leave envelopes sitting unopened because they are just so scared of what they will find inside. Also, there is a lot of ignorance and myths about debt.

I think the first thing that indebt needs to do is to take responsibility for the debts of the past. Its easy to think that 5 years clears the debt. Actually, bank records probably goes back much further. Also credit ratings breakdown defaulters according to whether or not the debt was a) paid late but in full, b) settled with a partial payment or c) written off. This doesn't happen overnight. By the time it will have gone to court or been written off would be as much as 2-3 years after the original default. So the last entry on your record may only go back 3 years. Officially, the account is removed 5 years after the completion date of the account - which is the date at which you've either paid it off or its been written off.

So you need to realise that your actions - especially where debt is concerned - have major and lasting implications.

Firstly if the total debt is less than €2000 you won't see police or baliffs. The only people in prison in Ireland for debt are peope who don't pay court fines and serious fradsters.

If the banks were your lenders you'll have probably have had legal and legitimate "letter writer" type collection agencies. Actually there is one rather large agency in Dublin that deals with most of these but I don't know if they were operating a few years ago. I'd recommend reading this article which explains exactly what level of information is given on credit records:
http://www.ifha.ie/IBIS%20Applying%20for%20Consumer%20Credit.pdf

Basically, indebt should contact his lenders and come clean. Its possible that the debts are now written off, but there may be outstanding court orders. Its going to be a very unpleasant experience are he should immediately call MABS and get advice (www.mabs.ie).

The sad reality here for indebt and anybody who thinks they can just "walk away" is that it will come back to haunt you, and it is far less painful to take responsibilty. The lesson to be learned here is that you cannot just come back after a few years and expect things to be ok. And it will take you a few years to clear your name.

First things to think of for anybody in indebt's situation:
1. Talk to MABS and if they recommend a solicitor, find one
2. Talk to your old creditors and find out where the debt went
3. Follow the debt and see if it is possible to pay it off
4. Don't even consider getting your credit reference until you've done this. You can pretty much assume that you won't like what you see, so sort the other problems out first.
5. Don't even think about applying for loans or finance for the time being. You say you want to "restore your good credit" but here's the bad news: its going to be a long hard haul before any lender in Ireland will touch you. You might think its unfair, but failing to pay bills hurts somebody somewhere whose dependent on those bills.

spongebob

Post of the Month material, well said Shoegirl.

eth0_

Originally posted by Muck
Post of the Month material, well said Shoegirl.

I agree. I was able to pay off 6000 euro of debt in around 2 years, and i'm crap with money. So if I can do it, so can the original poster! Luckily I was never in any trouble with repayments so my credit record is clean and pristine, but I think if you've had difficulties you just have to accept there is no quick fix and you'll need to concentrate on repayments and living within your means for now.

Have to say i'll never get a credit card again though, they were the main cause of my debts. If only Irish banks would issue cards like Visa Electron which you can use on most common online stores, i'm sure people would be less in debt, especially young people. Laser is bloody crap, which made me apply for a credit card in the first place. *grimace*

Victor

Point of information.

Originally posted by Victor
For this type of debt, the statute of limitiations (Statute of Limitations Acts, 1957, 1991, 2000) is 6 years, not 5.

Sorry this is six years to sue you plus are further 6 years to enforce the judgement.

Our man in Havana

Actually you have 12 years to enforce a judgement.