State wastes €20m on five hotels

Floater

"Almost €20m has been spent by the State on five hotels and properties for asylum seekers which have never been used to house them - and which have now either been sold off or are lying idle because of local opposition."

You be fired in the private sector if you were responsible for this.

How about incorporating debits for this and similar screw-ups into "benchmarking" to give the public servants responsible an incentive not to make similar mistakes in the future?


Floater

bonkey

Originally posted by Floater
"Almost €20m has been spent by the State on five hotels and properties for asylum seekers which have never been used to house them - and which have now either been sold off or are lying idle because of local opposition."

You be fired in the private sector if you were responsible for this.

And if they had filled and used the hotels, we'd have comparative headlines telling us how the government "wasted" €20m (plus runnign costs) paying for luxuries for illegal immigrants which could be better used on our own. I'm sure we could find someone to blame that on and argue that they should have been fired.

Conversely, the govt could have done nothing, and had yet more headlines telling us how the government was using a lack of resources as a cover excuse for a closed-door policy, and have other people calling for resignations/firing of the unhumanitarian polticians.

So its pretty much a lose-lose situation for the govt. no matter which way you look at it. The only difference is who we get to say would/should have resigned / been fired .... and perhaps which group was shouting for it.

jc

swiss

Originally posted by bonkey:

And if they had filled and used the hotels, we'd have comparative headlines telling us how the government "wasted" €20m (plus runnign costs) paying for luxuries for illegal immigrants which could be better used on our own. I'm sure we could find someone to blame that on and argue that they should have been fired.

Conversely, the govt could have done nothing, and had yet more headlines telling us how the government was using a lack of resources as a cover excuse for a closed-door policy, and have other people calling for resignations/firing of the unhumanitarian polticians.

I have to disagree with you on this one bonkey. I feel that on one hand, if the government had actually used those hotels for the purpose for which they had been intended, then the expense might be justified. While people are free to argue that the €20m or so would be best suited to 'our own', at least the money would be actually providing a service for people, instead of being wasted in such a frivolous manner.

If the government had not decided to spend that €20m, then they would have extra funds available to takle other issues such as social welfare, or perhaps by giving more people a reprieve on their rubbish tax.

In fact, reading the Irish Independant this morning, it appears that through mismanagement and massive project overruns, the civil service and the government have wasted far more than this sum. The case of the hotels that are not currently in use is but one pertinent example. There is another example of the construction of the Cork school of music, a project initially estimated to cost approx €14m, but now looks like it's going to run into €100m or more.

If this report is accurate, then it is a damning indictment of the efficiency (or more notably lack thereof) of the civil service, and especially of the government whose duty it is to oversee the allocation and spending of taxpayer money. Whether this will actually prompt anything more than face saving changes is another matter entirely.

tinofapples

I was disgusted when I saw this on the news yesterday , a hotel purchased for €2.8 million never opened it's door's for it's intended purpose (Another issue) and was then sold at a loss of over €800,000 . Who foots this bill ?

Renovations to be carried out on some other facility for similar purpose :

Estimated Cost - €150,000
Actual Cost - Over €1.5 million .

As already has been stated if this were a private company someone would have been sacked and would never work in a similar position again .

If you ask me it's just one way in which taxpayers money is squandered , the prsion service is another and I don't mean the joke that is the amount of sick days that the prison service take .

Prison is supposed to be a place you'd hate going to , while the thought of going "inside" isn't appealing in any manner to me , I actually think some "fiends" consider it to be luxury in comparison to their everyday life !!

I recall a couple of years ago RTE News had a report from Castlerea "Prison" about Republican prisioners (I'm not 100 %) . They were living in what looked to me to be more like apartments or flats of their own with basketball and tennis courts ouside them .

It looked very impressive for a "Prison". If there was less money spent on the prison's that are in exsistence the country could afford more of them and therefore keep people "inside" who should be off the streets.

There are I'm sure plenty more examples of taxpayers money been wasted .

star gazer

And if they had filled and used the hotels, we'd have comparative headlines telling us how the government "wasted" €20m (plus runnign costs) paying for luxuries for illegal immigrants which could be better used on our own. I'm sure we could find someone to blame that on and argue that they should have been fired.
bonkey

We all have our political opinions on the immigration issue, are they spongers or are they of great economic importance to us and our moral duty to accept (the latter for me), but that is a secondary issue to spending twenty million without return. Government incompetence in planning for these centres and ensuring locals would accept the newcomers is the issue. I'm sure the property owners were well entitled to the price they got for their premises, but if ministers oversee departments that can get things so wrong i think their position should at least come under the spotlight, and even resign.

star gazer

I was disgusted when I saw this on the news yesterday , a hotel purchased for €2.8 million never opened it's door's for it's intended purpose (Another issue) and was then sold at a loss of over €800,000 . Who foots this bill ?
tinofapples

yeah it must have been during a property crash that they bought and sold this. (NOT)

bonkey

Originally posted by swiss
If this report is accurate, then it is a damning indictment of the efficiency (or more notably lack thereof) of the civil service, and especially of the government whose duty it is to oversee the allocation and spending of taxpayer money.

Ah, OK. I see where people are coming from.

You're saying that there's a report which shows that teh civil service and government - who have been known to be nothing if not inefficient and wasteful to teh extreme pretty much since their inception - are inefficient and wasteful in the extreme.

To me thats not news. Its a restatement of a reality which has been oft-stated before, and which has never seriously been attempted to be altered.

Thats why I assumed there must be some ulterior motive behind the assertion that these findings are "news" in any shape or form.

Whether this will actually prompt anything more than face saving changes is another matter entirely.

Course it wont. We'll have some speeches worth of Sir Humphrey trotted out to explain why the right decision was made at the time, and how it is only in hindsight that it was discovered the wrong decision was made. Everyone will grumble, then forget about it, until the next "government wastes money" shocker, when we'll have people utterly outraged once more that the government could be so inefficient and wasteful, and see more comments along the lines that "if this were a private company, they'd all be fired long ago".

cj

swiss

You're saying that there's a report which shows that teh civil service and government - who have been known to be nothing if not inefficient and wasteful to teh extreme pretty much since their inception - are inefficient and wasteful in the extreme

Correct. In this instance however, a comprehensive report has detailed the specific level of incompetence and cost overruns that has cost Irish taxpayers millions. I have little doubt personally that the thrust of this report is accurate, but looking at those figures in such a stark light might finally be a turning point for some people who had been of the opinion that the "jobs for the lads" approach without concern as to their suitability or efficiency was in the national interest (tm).

I don't believe it will immediately provoke an institutional change, and frankly I feel that the fear of change within what has always been observed as a 'cushy' job within the civil service will provoke severe resistance to any attempted reform of that service. It is too fundamental a flaw in this country to simply ignore. People must begin to realise that we have to cut out some of the dead wood floating around in the administration and governance of our country in order to have any kind of efficient civil service.

sovtek

Originally posted by tinofapples


As already has been stated if this were a private company someone would have been sacked and would never work in a similar position again .

In Germany/UK/France/etc....yes.
Ireland... don't count on it.

Victor

Originally posted by swiss
There is another example of the construction of the Cork school of music, a project initially estimated to cost approx €14m, but now looks like it's going to run into €100m or more.

These are obviously 2 different projects. It's hte problem when non-managerial intelligensia have access to non-intelligensia politicians. The Royal Irish Academy of Music started at £1.5 and ended up being double that with 18 months because Bertie's speech writer was using 4 year old figures when "approval" was given. Of course a Bertie sponsored culture project ended up being financed by the Dept of Education.

Originally posted by tinofapples
I recall a couple of years ago RTE News had a report from Castlerea "Prison" about Republican prisioners (I'm not 100 %) . They were living in what looked to me to be more like apartments or flats of their own with basketball and tennis courts ouside them

Castlerea Prison is a low security prison, in particular for prisoners nearing the end of their sentences and yes part of the accommadation is in 8(?) man bungalows.

Originally posted by bonkey
cj

OMG! Charlie Haughey has taken over Bonkey's account!

Hobbes

Originally posted by tinofapples
Who foots this bill ?

Your asking the wrong question. Who got the €2.8 million?