Sly one from IOL

manic_monster · 01-10-2003 7:02am #1

I just got my IOL Broadband application form in the post - nicely pre filled out for me and what do I see with it but "Carrier Pre-Selection Authorisation" form.

Surely this is intended to dupe people into switching over. I did not ask for this.

Eurorunner · 01-10-2003 7:14am

Surely this is intended to dupe people into switching over. I did not ask for this.

It might be sly but i have to ask....dont you want to save yourself some money on your voice calls??....because regardless of who it is, chances are that they are cheaper than €ircon every time.

manic_monster · 01-10-2003 8:21am

I rarely use the land line and am not convinced that they are cheaper - set up charges etc.

manic_monster · 01-10-2003 8:27am

Was just on to a biddy - its standard practice to include both. She had no answer when I accused them of trying to slyly get me signed up.

She said both forms say what they are for and that I only need to return the broadband one.

Eurorunner · 01-10-2003 8:38am

I rarely use the land line and am not convinced that they are cheaper - set up charges etc.

FACT: They are cheaper;)
Do a search on it here on boards - taking UTV as a case in point, yes they do have a call 'setup fee' - but thats just part of the picture - In comparison with Eircom, Eircom have no setup fee but have a minimum call charge that is almost twice that of UTV - so even with the setup fee, your saving €€

Dont just take my word for it, check it out - you might just save a few quid.

manic_monster · 01-10-2003 8:45am

This is going off topic - I will check out the phone charges.

Ripwave · 01-10-2003 8:54am

Originally posted by manic_monster
I rarely use the land line and am not convinced that they are cheaper - set up charges etc.

Eircom calls include a "set up charge" too - they just call it a "minimum call charge".

I just checked the last itemised bill that I got from eircom before I switched to IBB. There were 49 calls to the Internet access number - 17 of them were for .0524 (6.35c including VAT).

BrianD · 01-10-2003 4:44pm

Well it does raise an interesting point about the marketing ethics of the various flat rate Internet providers.

All advertise flat rate products for the general market.

None indicate that you may have to shift from Eircom (or other provider) to them e.g. you must use UTVIP for voice calls as well as a condition of using their flat rate Internet.

In some cases the flat rate service is not available if you have preselected another carrier e.g. Netsmart is not available to IFA Telecom users.

It's time for the big companies to be a bit more honest with their marketing campaigns!

Ripwave · 01-10-2003 5:06pm

Originally posted by BrianD
All advertise flat rate products for the general market.

None indicate that you may have to shift from Eircom (or other provider) to them e.g. you must use UTVIP for voice calls as well as a condition of using their flat rate Internet.

No, you don't have to "use UTVIP for voice calls". You have to make UTV your default voice call provider, but there's nothing to prevent you bypassing the UTVIP CPS and dialling some other provider, as far as I'm aware. The switch to CPS isn't something that the user will inadvertantly find out about after they've signed up - it's a clear and unambiguous part of the process. A 30 second radio or TV spot isn't the place for explaining this.

It's time for the big companies to be a bit more honest with their marketing campaigns!

Dp you want them to mention the €22.50 monthly line charge the next time they advertise any telephony product? And the fact that your phone number will be listed in the phone book whether you want it or not, unless you pay a premium? And the amount of interest they charge on late payments? And 100 other conditions and preconditions in one 15 second radio spot for cheap weekend calls to the UK?

bk · 01-10-2003 7:32pm

Originally posted by Ripwave
And the fact that your phone number will be listed in the phone book whether you want it or not, unless you pay a premium?

While I agree with everything else you said, just one small correction. It costs nothing to get your number ex-directory and caller ID disabled. It is just a check box on the application form.

spongebob · 01-10-2003 7:37pm

Originally posted by Ripwave
No, you don't have to "use UTVIP for voice calls". You have to make UTV your default voice call provider, but there's nothing to prevent you bypassing the UTVIP CPS and dialling some other provider, as far as I'm aware.

You can put calls 'back 'into Eircom from a CPS carrier by dialling their mark of the beast access code before the number

13666

M

De Rebel · 01-10-2003 8:07pm

Originally posted by Muck
..... by dialling their mark of the beast access code before the number .....13666

M

Only our beloved eircom could have managed that...........

Moriarty · 01-10-2003 8:09pm

Originally posted by Muck
You can put calls 'back 'into Eircom from a CPS carrier by dialling their mark of the beast access code before the number

13666

M

Somone has a sense of humour

spongebob · 01-10-2003 8:25pm

Etain Herself

http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/odtr9830.pdf

5 years ago. Page 5

M

sceptre · 01-10-2003 8:49pm

Originally posted by Ripwave
Dp you want them to mention the €22.50 monthly line charge the next time they advertise any telephony product?... And 100 other conditions and preconditions in one 15 second radio spot for cheap weekend calls to the UK?

Of course not. Top marks for hyperbole. However I'd regard a successful application for the service being contingent on also changing the default voice call provider to that company as a material fact that should be mentioned in the advert, rather than being included in the all-encompassing "terms and conditions apply". It's a significant mandatory addon, albeit one that saves most consumers money. In the same way, Netsource shouldn't be able to advertise their BB product without including the cost of the domain (I don't know whether they do this, or even whether they advertise at all) if the domain rental fee is mandatory for all or almost all customers (and yes I'm aware that a limited number of people have found their way around this).

It's advance disclosure of a significant material fact that consumers should be made aware of before contacting the company.

(apologies for my diction above. I went to a Law soc meeting in UL last night (don't ask) and that kind of evil takes a few days to wash out)

De Rebel · 01-10-2003 9:13pm

Originally posted by Muck
Etain Herself

http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/odtr9830.pdf

5 years ago. Page 5

M

Etain has a sense of humour. ?

Ripwave · 01-10-2003 9:20pm

Originally posted by sceptre
In the same way, Netsource shouldn't be able to advertise their BB product without including the cost of the domain

I don't think that's the same kind of thing at all - that's advertising a product for €55 that you can't get unless you spend €65. (I've never actually seen an ad for Netsource, so I'm not saying that they do this).

It's advance disclosure of a significant material fact that consumers should be made aware of before contacting the company.

The CPS requirement is a problem for a lot people, but I don't consider checking out the website to be "contacting the company" as such, so from my point of view, the information _is_ made available before you need to contact UTV.

Note that I'm not trying to downplay the importance of CPS - it would definitely make me hesitate before selecting that product. But I don't think there's anything dishonest involved in not referring to CPS in a television spot. (Frankly, I'd like to see the UTV ads include a disclaimer that "due to the anti-competitive behaviour of the incumbent telco, you may have to wait up to a month before you can get this product".

)

sceptre · 01-10-2003 9:39pm

Originally posted by Ripwave
(Frankly, I'd like to see the UTV ads include a disclaimer that "due to the anti-competitive behaviour of the incumbent telco, you may have to wait up to a month before you can get this product". )

I'm sure you're not alone there:).

I wouldn't say it's dishonest to leave out the statement, I'd just like to have that one there. Purely a personal opinion though - they certainly don't try to hide it.

As for where we kicked off the thread, did anyone notice whether Esat include a nice EZ-Read document on what CPS is and stating that it isn't actually compulsory? I know I'd check it out when calling but I'm probably more quizzical and cynical than most. Obviously almost everyone will make call savings by switching but it's nice to have informed consumers (including grannies) who make their own decisions on extras.

patrickmooney · 02-10-2003 12:36pm

From my understanding....if you sign up to Esat BT Homephone, you get their Advantage product, which doesn't have a set up charge. Their old Home Phone product isn't being sold anymore. With advantage you do however have a min call charge, which is still cheaper then Eircom!! So it is savings however you look at it....
got the details from http://www.esatbt.com/ie/residential/homephone/advantage_pricing.html

Sly one from IOL

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