~Tolkin~

DriftingRain

I am new to learning all the pagan beliefs. In my studies of different ideas/beliefs. I've come across this site:

http://www.eskimo.com/~ouija/rqcult_odin.htm

On this site it shows the forming of Nine Worlds, Does anyone else seem to think maybe J.R.R. Tolkien was pullin from these beliefs when writing Lord of the Rings? Maybe he was a follower of some pagan ideas? Just though it was rather intresting. By NO means am I insinuating that he is making fun or poking at pagan ideas. I just thought it was a thought??
:rolleyes:
~DR~

Nevyn

Tolkien had a very deep love of the land.
You have to remember he grew up during the coal industrial revaluation in Britain.

Strip mining was the most ' efficient ' way
so get coal from the land, smog was everywhere. There were woods where he grew up and he hated when he had to move to the city when his father died.

Toilkien was in a devoted catholic, he converted in order to marry and love the mystries and rites of the Latin mass.

The rape of the Land by Saruman in the two towers) portrayed so graphical and well in the film) was all about the evil of using the earth as we see fit with no reverence and thought of the futures and what we are destroying.

DriftingRain

The rape of the Land by Saruman in the two towers) portrayed so graphical and well in the film) was all about the evil of using the earth as we see fit with no reverence and thought of the futures and what we are destroying.

Seems logical;)
I still say DAMMED Saruman!!!

Ancient1

Also remember that Tolkien studied and taught Old English and Old Norse. The overlaps and influences were inevitable - in a very positive way.

Talliesin

Originally posted by DriftingRain
I am new to learning all the pagan beliefs. In my studies of different ideas/beliefs. I've come across this site:

http://www.eskimo.com/~ouija/rqcult_odin.htm

On this site it shows the forming of Nine Worlds, Does anyone else seem to think maybe J.R.R. Tolkien was pullin from these beliefs when writing Lord of the Rings?

Tolkien studied Old Norse and Old English literature, not only was he familiar with all of them, he was the leading academic authority on quite a few.

DriftingRain

WOW!!!
I wasn't aware that he was studing Norse tradition...:D
That does explain a few things to me. :P Seems I didn't know enough about the authors real life outside the books. That's why I brought the question here. Thanks for sharing an insight!

Earthhorse

Saw a documentary on the man near the start of the year. Apparently what he was attempting to do in the books was write out a new mythology for England and possibly even Britain.

I don't know a lot about England's history but suffice it to say it got invaded a lot, so by the time Tolkien was around there was much disparate folklore around the country. In other words depending on where you grew up you would have different myths and legends told to you.

So Tolkien made some attempt to reconcile this and draw up a new mythology by writing The Lord of The Rings.

Carbiens

been ages since i read it so i cant actually remember the names of the actual clans, but in the silmarilion tolkin writes about a clan men who were the first men to make contact with the elves and the dwarfs, when hes describing them you can really see the huge influence norse and celtic folklore had on the creation of these charactures even there names are very norse or even pagan like, Beor, for example (personally my favourate tolkin characture) was, in my opinion Thor incarnate.

if you havent read the silmarilion and you're interested in the influences of tolkins creations i sincerly suggest you read it, its the finest piece of liturature i have ever laid my ands on, and now that you've made me remember all that i love about it im gonna go and read it again...right now, tnx:D

Ancient1

pagan like, Beor, for example (personally my favourate tolkin characture) was, in my opinion Thor incarnate.

Damn right! Feel the same!:D :horned:

Talliesin

Originally posted by Carbine
but in the silmarilion tolkin writes about a clan men who were the first men to make contact with the elves and the dwarfs, when hes describing them you can really see the huge influence norse and celtic folklore had on the creation of these charactures even there names are very norse or even pagan like, Beor, for example (personally my favourate tolkin characture) was, in my opinion Thor incarnate.

Well elves of course exist in English and Germanic folklore as those cultures' view of the sidhe. Dwarfs/Dwarves (depending on whether you use the Tolkien plural) are a big part of Germanic folklore. There really isn't any pretense otherwise. Notably in the early papers there are a good few notes on where he had decided to differ from folklore or other material - for example he was using the term "gnomes" for some time (though he later dropped that usage) and he stated that this was not related to Paracelsus' use of the same word. As such there was a strong implication that if he didn't say otherwise he was directly copying from existing folklore.

Beor I wouldn't compare so much with Thor as with the Beserks - Norse warriors who would wear bearskins and who would go into an altered state where their combat skills would improve and they would appear impervious to pain. Comparisons can be made with the "warp spasm" (is that really the best translation?) of Cú Chulainn, the mental states deliberately induced in some forms of marial arts and the degree of being "psyched up" that most of us have experienced to some degree or another.

That the Beserks (from which we get the adjective "beserk") underwent some sort of mental psyching up is pretty much undisputed. Just how much is a more debatable matter. The more extreme stories described them as taking on animal form - which may originate in a form of Shamanism since "becoming" (just what that is taken to mean varies) an animal is a common feature of Shamanism, and certainly there was some degree of ritual involved in their preparations for battle. Hence there was a large body of folklore with some degree of basis in reality about men becoming bears to fight which Tolkien drew on when creating Beorn and the other Beornings.

Ancient1

so good to hear that people are interested in this

Friendly tip, Talliesin, it's "Berserk".

Has anyone read Stephan Grundy's "Rhinegold"?
If you havent - DO!

Talliesin

Originally posted by Ancient1
Friendly tip, Talliesin, it's "Berserk".

Heh, funny how if you make a mistake once you can keep on making it...

Carbiens

can anyone tell me some other works by tolkien?

ive read lotr, the hobbit and the silmarilion and ive bought unfinished tales but i dont know where to start on that one

so are there any more?

Talliesin

Originally posted by Carbine
can anyone tell me some other works by tolkien?

ive read lotr, the hobbit and the silmarilion and ive bought unfinished tales but i dont know where to start on that one

so are there any more?

Lots, and plenty of biography, criticism, and other Tolkien-based books. here a lot of stuff was posthumously released after being edited by Christopher Tolkien, and you can find that stuff here.

I'd recommend Tree and Leaf as a non-Middle Earth book that shows a lot of his thinking about fairytales and myths, and also in terms of this thread's topic Myth & Middle-Earth: Exploring the Medieval Legends Behind J.R.R. Tolkien's "Lord of the Rings" which explores the basis of Tolkien's work in terms of European mythology, as DriftingRain said.

Carbiens

well i was really looking for works actually by tolkien, but i'll look out for those too

Talliesin

Em, most of the first link, all of the second link, and the third link are by Tolkien.

Carbiens

oh ok, sorry and tnx:o