Alleged illegal dumping

Dahakka

Hi guys

I have recently been wrongly accused of violating the Littering Pollution Act, i.e illegal dumping. Now, the issue is the following, a solitary household rubbish bag was allegedly dumped on a public laneway of good ole Limerick city, and apparently, that bag belongs to me. Some poor sod actually searched the innards of the bag in search of incriminating evidence, and after finding an old utility bill soaked with all sorts of unhealthy liquids imaginable, they determined that it was my bag. Now, while I may accept that the bag is mine, I did not, by any means, leave it there. I regularly use those green Mr Binman bags to dispose of my rubbish, so my best guess is that either A) Somebody nicked the green bag containing the black liner bag before it was collected, or The bag was dropped on its way to the truck and was never put back (I've seen that happening). Now, I started receiving letters from the Enviromental dept charging me with illegal dumping, so now they want 125 euro for an offence I never committed. I mean, come on, if I was going to actually do some illegal dumping, would I choose the most obvious spot of them all (the place where the rubbish is collected every week), carefully arrange the bag against a wall, and oh yes, cram as much incriminating evidence inside so there'd be no doubt as to who did it? Shyeah right. I've sent some letters back to them telling basically that it wasn't me, that they have no proof (and indeed they don't), that even though it may very well be my bag, they can't actually prove that I left it there. If they keep hassling me, my next action will be to ask for CCTV footage of me doing the dumping, and when they cannot produce such a thing, either cancel the fine or they'll be sued for unlawful prosecution, or whatever else I can think of. My question to you guys, has anybody else gone through this before? What was the outcome, and what actions were taken by both parties? Thanks for your time

best regards

dahakka

Beruthiel

This is not a Personal Issue as such
you are looking for legal advice
you might have better luck in After Hours

sorry Monty, if there's a better place to put it go ahead
B

sceptre

There are some scummy types robbing rubbish bags around Limerick apparently - I've heard of this a few times from businesses. Was it left out overnight to be collected in the morning?

I'll see what I can find out about how they dealt with it but it'll take me a few days at the very least.

Purely out of curiosity (I live in Limerick city centre and I'm wondering where these types are taking the things), what lane did they say the bag was found in?

spongebob

If you have receipts to show you are normally compliant then you will get the benefit of the doubt if you work your way up through the bureacracy .......making your case calmly as you go, bring evidence etc. etc.

A friend got hassle over a skip he hired that had sh1t blow out of it at the dump (left there for the night as the dump was closed and no tarp on top). You were probably the victim of drunks moving bags around for the crack onto another route.

He had a receipt for the skip ......Sorted.

M

The Beer Baron

I know somebody who has been charged with the same thing.
I found it rather spurious at best. It said he was being charged under the Pollutions Act of 1997 or some such thing, saying that they had "proof" that it originated with him.

Fair enough- if you could tell him what this proof was

I looked it up and, after wading through much legal twaddle found this little nugget:

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA12Y1997S26.html

Where the contents of litter that has been deposited in contravention of this Act or of municipal waste that has been placed in contravention of section 3(3) gives rise to a reasonable suspicion as to the identity of the person from whom the litter or waste emanated, the contents shall, in a prosecution of the person for an offence under this Act, constitute evidence, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, that the litter or waste emanated from the person before the deposit or placement and that the person made the contravening deposit or placement.

reasonable suspicion as to the identity of the person

I was left wondering what reasonable suspicion this might constitute- and why, being that he was liable for prosecution and/or a max fine of almost 2 ****ing grand- why they had not furnished him with their alleged "proof".

The only possible thing I could think of is a letter blowing out of his car with his address on it- or some other such silliness.
To date they have not told him why he is being prosecuted.

As it stands without either witnesses or actual hard evidence they should not, by right, have any reason to make a case.
But the offending article of legislature seems to be a deliberatly worded vaguery so as to prosecute on the basis of suspicion rather than proof. And the only conclusion that I can draw is that the county council has sent out a lot of these in an effort to extort money from the defenceless masses. (As this particular enforcement seems to be a rather recent phenomenon)

I guess there's a lesson here.
Here's me, whining and ranting about my beloved "nanny state" topic only to find such draconian statutes lurking in our very dustbins.

I echo Dahakka's original request- anyone who can help me and my friend out, any advice, etc, etc- it'd be much appreciated.

Dahakka

Hi guys

thanks for all your information. In response to sceptre, this incident supposedly took place in Keyes Row (just off Athlunkard St). In response to The Beer Baron, thanks a lot for your time, I really appreciate your effort. As it stands, I have sent a letter back to them enclosing proof of purchase of the green bags, and an explanation to what may have happened. I wasn't aware of people stealing those green bags, but I will be more careful from now on. The thing is, can they actually charge someone on the basis of merely what somebody found, no witnesses, no hard proof of any kind? I would think that's borderline illegal, certainly not very democratic. I received a letter back from them telling me that I basically was solely to blame because they found an utility bill inside the bag. That's the same as charging someone with murder because they found a name written on a piece of paper on a dead body. Without further proof, what good is it? I totally agree that it's a methof of obtaining extra cash from people, and it should be stopped.

Again, thanks to all for your time and support
Dahakka

The Beer Baron

The thing is, can they actually charge someone on the basis of merely what somebody found, no witnesses, no hard proof of any kind?

It's on the books.
It's the law.
And, like many or most- it's complete bull****.

That's the same as charging someone with murder because they found a name written on a piece of paper on a dead body.

Well at least you're not the first person it's happened to. It's a common trick apparently. And they have the law behind them.

I can understand where certain aspects of the act is admirable- but like everything in this country, they only go after people like you and me, jesus, I mean it's not like they'd ever want to bring anyone guilty of a serious crime to justice now is it?

I find this utterly petty, and sick.
Christ this country needs an enema.