"Move this thread to 'Market Policy Issues' please"

zz03

I actually had thought about posting the threads I started to “market policy” issues originally but decided to put them where I did because it seems to me that material gets more exposure in the “service issues” slot. Not to mention the fact that the postings are service issue related as well.

Surely it is time to stop all this childish merging and moving threads? It makes the continuity of discussion more difficult for people to follow, is time wasting, and pisses off many contributors and others no end.

zz..

dahamsta

<dahamsta raises his big foam finger and shouts woo-hoo>

Seriously, just merge the bloody forums.

adam

andrew163

Originally posted by dahamsta
Seriously, just merge the bloody forums.

I know im relatively new here and all and haven't really earned the right to suggest what you glorious, wise mods should do, but I agree..... having 2 forums is just pointless. If someone asks something like "Whats the best internet deal", which obviously wouldnt belong in the market/policy forum, and posts it to the merged forum, then just move it to nets/comms or something. That IS what theyre there for, isn't it?

MarcusGarvey

I agree

Serbian

Originally posted by andrew163
having 2 forums is just pointless.

I don't think having 2 forums is pointless, I think the problem is the names of the forums. If we could get more distinct titles for the forums, then maybe people will feel more assured when they are about to start a new thread within the Ireland Offline forums.

I can't actually think of better names than what we have however.

iwb

Yes, there should be two forums. Perhaps naming them differently would help. You could probably lose the IOFFL at the start of each as they are nested below one called IrelandOFFline. One could be 'Day to day user issues' and the other 'Overall policy issues' or something like that.
When they were in the same forum, it was fairly cumbersome to separate the two.

sceptre

Originally posted by zz03
I see children are playing with their toy train signal boxes again...

I actually had thought about posting the threads I started to “market policy” issues originally but decided to put them where I did because it seems to me that material gets more exposure in the “service issues” slot. Not to mention the fact that the postings are service issue related as well.

Surely it is time to stop all this childish merging and moving threads? It makes the continuity of discussion more difficult for people to follow, is time wasting, and pisses off many contributors and others no end.

Please grow up or get a job in a library where you could have endless fun moving books around the shelves, and changing classification numbers at a whim to make life difficult for your borrowers!

zz..

Er two things.

One.
I've very little idea of WTF you're on about (I haven't been around today) with the moving threads = toy trains thing. I can see a few moved threads so I'll assume that's what you mean.

Two
It may have escaped your attention but we do have rules on not insulting posters. Please edit your post to cut out the parts insulting whoever you're insulting. It'll save me doing it and giving you a ban warning as well. Discussing the nature of the split forums is perfectly OK as long as we don't do it every week but I'm not going to take you seriously as long as you think insulting /anyone/ is OK (regardless of whether it's the other mods here, other users or your monkey).

I wouldn't have posted at all about the issue (given that I've been quite busy for the past week and haven't moved anything) but for the abusive little dancing monkey act in the last paragraph. This is the one that one of us will be deleting (have a look at the opening paragraph too, there's a god chap).

Personally I'd merge the two forums myself and use the manual method of dumping all the rubbish bits in the recycle bin to cut down on the SNR but your post still makes you look like an aggrieved child.

That is all.

dahamsta

Make it so.

sceptre

I should add btw that I can see the reasoning behind having two forums on the go. Under the current setup I'd see the Market/Policy forum as being the main one rather than the consumer one (effectively most of the important stuff that affects everyone should end up there (hence it's effectively a compliment which is why I can't understand the hissy fit)). Under such a system, threads such as the ones referred to in posts above would take pride of place in the market/Policy forum, while the consumer/service forum could contain all the threads about new IBB products, UTV customer service, shinzonoffline and gandalf riding in to help Eircom.

If the current layout is a failure (and I /do/ believe it isn't quite working in its current incarnation), it's probably our fault for not invoking the power of the Move more often and perhaps not having very specific guidelines on what goes where. That's also (obviously) up for discussion by the way.

Certainly worth keeping in mind though: if the committee do make the decision to move back to one forum at any stage, you'll all find a need for a rather ruthless pruning of unnecessary threads to cut down on the signal to noise ratio.

MDR

I think zz03 is getting un-nerved by my requests requests to the mods to move various threads to the 'IOFFL Market/Policy Forum'. Sessh ..... :rolleyes:

Surely it is time to stop all this childish merging and moving threads?

I am sure it wasn't your intention to offend zz03, I don't see how the forum management, amounts to childish behaviour ?, I was simply recommending to the mods that the threads IMHO belonged in the other forum ...

MarcusGarvey

Its impossible to re-educate an entire online community when they are used to posting everything ioffl related or otherwise in this forum.

Theres probably two solutions to the two forums problem right now:

1) Keep harassing people and shoving the correct procedure down their throat and annoying everyone.

2) Make a structure change. Change the Forum Structure back or to something like IWB suggested or have a subforum like there is in Films and the Komplett forum.

From a Usability point of view its makes more sense to do what the posters expect even if that doesn't make overall sense (if you know what I mean)

zz03

The posting in question was intended as an exercise in creative hyperbolae to underscore the futility of moving and merging threads. It certainly was not an attempt to insult the individual(s) involved who probably felt that they were following “policy”.

These policies in my view do nothing to add value to the forum (aside from dealing with the odd severely mis-targeted posting from a new arrival on the scene).

As a society we are addicted to complexity and confusion – visible everywhere you go – broadband policy, public transport, planning, signposting, motorways / roads, airports, etc – instead on focusing on simplicity. In the end, as a result we end up with a lot of hot air, CO2 emissions and little else!

Many if not most postings can be viewed as being both customer service and policy issues. Take Jamie Smith’s article in today’s Times “Survey puts Peru above Republic for broadband” – which is both an indictment on the appalling internet service most Irish citizens have to put up with from telco-mafia.ie and an essay which should be of interest to those who lean towards policy issues. While a single posting headed “2,400bps broadband speeds in Donegal” might be seen as a clear service issue, a dozen such postings from different people over a period would surely reflect on policy?

If you were in a dealing room with four or five screens to keep on top of, the news flow would normally come in a single window for simplicity. If you were an air traffic controller you wouldn’t want separate radar screens showing all the Airbus aircraft in one view and all the Boeing aircraft in another. If you did have to work with this set-up you would have reason to be pissed off if the supervisor started moving some of the Airbus aircraft to the Boeing radar screen because part of the hull was made in Seattle rather than Toulouse!

What is the difference in mindset between those who say “there is no demand for broadband in Ireland” and those who say the thread of the Jamie Smith article (above) was posted to the “wrong” topic?

zz..

oscarBravo

zz, if I have an issue about not being able to access the UTVipXL rollover number from Linux, there's a case to be made for posting that to IOFFL c/s issues, nets/comms or unix. That doesn't mean the three forums should be merged, it means I have to make an informed decision as to where it goes. If I choose wrong, part of a moderator's function is to move it to where it belongs.

I like the division between the forums. It's no great effort to check them both, the same way I check nets/comms and unix every time I'm online. Let's clarify the guidelines as to what goes where, and let the mods do their job.

MDR

I see your intention was to underscore the complexity of thread management and indeed the world we live in, by posting a thread so exaggerated, to bring home the futility of what we are attempting to do, ironic in a way.

Well I have to say, I missed it, perhaps I amn't the smartest kid in the class, I still reckon if your last post had of been your first you would have saved us, well me at least, alot of head of scratching, regardless inflamatory language like 'childish' should be treated with more respect ....

Furthermore I don't disagree with anything you have said to this point, although you have to appreciate that the decision to split the forum's was one taken in light of the inability to discuss serious issues without threads descending into insult trading and idle threats, or indeed getting side-tracked by individual problems, the market forum was therefore created as a place for serious policy discussion. This problem may have subsided on the consumer forum, it maybe worth reviewing the situation in the medium term ...

zz03

Originally posted by MDR

My main plea is for an end to pernickety thread moving which in my view has been grossly over-done up to now. I’m not accusing you of being the worst practitioner either – far from it. Please stop moving the aircraft from one radar screen to another!

While one preaches the gospel of simplicity I have no problem with multiple topics if the majority of subscribers feel it preferable to segregate the flow. Perhaps your use of the word “consumer” could be expanded to create a more precise sub-forum to attract a more clearly defined input around the areas of self-help and support issues or whatever. It seems to me that it is important to try and keep the main audience exposure around a single topic rather than allowing it to be dispersed. As it stands the main audience seems to be in the “wrong” place by default. This leads to people like me posting where I think the greatest exposure lies - because the current topic headings in my mind allow me to use one or the other in many if not most cases.

It is a difficult issue to resolve which made me think that Adam was right in calling for a merger.

zz..

sceptre

Originally posted by MarcusGarvey
2) Make a structure change. Change the Forum Structure back or to something like IWB suggested or have a subforum like there is in Films and the Komplett forum.

The Komplett-style subforum for consumer issues (note, I haven't included the word "service") hit me last night when I was going to sleep (you didn't think I was going to rush back and post now did you?:))

If we need to keep the personal consumer issues (which aren't unimportant, it's just there are a lot of them) away from the more general discussions, having a subforum for "I can't get broadband and here's why..." makes more sense. The general forum would remain as default.

Or follow iwb suggestions (which is what I was getting to myself above) and precisely define the place of the two forums, including changing the names to make that easier.

Or just combine the two forums.

They're basically the three options. Forcing stuff down users' throats isn't an option without doing one of the above at the very least and isn't all theat desirable as a solution anyway. If it isn't simple to understand it probably needs to be simplified.


(oh yeah, I've edited the first post like I said I would. Politeness is cheap. I've deleted nothing that forms part of the point and I've even left one "childish" in the last paragraph)

MarcusGarvey

Originally posted by MDR
although you have to appreciate that the decision to split the forum's was one taken in light of the inability to discuss serious issues without threads descending into insult trading and idle threats, or indeed getting side-tracked by individual problems, the market forum was therefore created as a place for serious policy discussion.

That was more of a moderation issue though, right ?

zz03

What about merging the existing legacy into a single forum and calling it “The Main Forum” or similar – ie to clearly show where the default place to be is?

And open a new sub-forum entitled

“consumer issues” or

“Problems in your neck of the woods”

or something more explicit by listing the types of postings in the sub-forum name – eg postings about x, y and z.


zz..