Controller (|Piano Thingy) set up Need Please

-ADREN-

I had a post back there a bit about digital pianos but thanks to Creeds sound advice ive choosen to go with a controller set up..

Now all I need to know is (in plain english please) what else I need to get. I would like to have the lowest latency as possible for when playing live with effects on.

I have choosen to get this controller I think.

SL-880 PRO 88-Key Hammer Action Controller

The thing is I was told by Creed this has no USB thingy..

So if any of ye know of a controller out there for that same price there abouts with weighted keys and Hammer Action Controller WITH the usb thing it would be great thanks.

So now anyways if I was to go with that one.. what other equipment do I need.

An external soundcard right? for my laptop.

And a Midi to usb box or something?

Also by getting a USB 2 device sound card I can reduce my latency alot is this correct?

Thanks again,
Coz.

dragon_ninja82

That keyboard is grand, I myself am using a Roland PC200 MkII as my controller keyboard, which would be in the same price range as the one you mentioned, plus the newer model has usb.

For your laptop you will need an external soundcard. If you want low latency try the digidesign m-box, allthough they arent cheap. On the cheaper end of the price spectrum would be creatives audigy, but the latency tends to be around the 40ms mark (no Asio).

The midi to usb box are mainly used to give more inputs and outputs to users with more than just a controller keyboard for midi, or users who dont have a midi/joystick port. Most soundcards would have either, or in some cases both.

USB 2 wont really affect latency, the drivers will. For low latency you need ASIO (audio stream Input/Output, drivers that allow software and hardware to communicate optimally, lessen latency, and allow for more than two channels to be recorded).

Gordon

You'll have it into the computer/sampler but then where will you put the digits and bytes into Adren? Do you have software for your computer or do you have a sampler to play sounds?

And if you are getting a USB controller then you would most likely not need a midi in jack for your computer as the midi information would go through the USB cable. I could be wrong with you PC users as I use a Macintosh with USB controller hooked up to Reason and I know Macs work a tad different to Windows-gates machines. (although unfortunately I let slip that my controller's USB port seems to not be giving the midi it has to so it is in to the menders )

So my thoughts - how will you produce the sound in your computer -Adren-?

Ahh, I have just read your post on Digital Pianos. You seem to be getting a sampler software. _Creed_ seems to know his stuff pretty well so he may prove me wrong as I manytimes am.

dragon_ninja82

You are right, on a PC if you have a usb controller you dont need a midi interface, it plugs straight into the usb port. As for the sounds, most higher up soundcards these days come with software capable of producing them, for example the m-box comes with pro tools 5.2 LE and as far as I know the extigy comes with cubasis vst.

Gordon

Doesn't Pro Tools LE only come with quicktime sounds (akin to synthesised sounds) as opposed to any actual samples? I don't know - I'm just wondering.

dragon_ninja82

As far as I know (albeit as a dedicated cubase user) pro tools le still can use the standard midi set, as well as the quicktime sounds. And since this program is free with the m-box I wouldnt make too much of an issue about its functionality.

Gordon

Aye, just because Adren was originally wanting a real electric piano originally, those real electric pianos tend to hold better quality sounds than the synthesised quicktime ones.

Where are you so far Adren?

RicardoSmith

Theres a new version of the external Sound Blaster® Extigy card/breakout box being released. It supports USB2. If your PC/Laptop supports USB2 than it would be worthwhile waiting for it. Unless you are getting a pro box of some sort.

-ADREN-

Where am i so far?

Ehh im still pritty lost...

Basically what id like is something to gig with that gives great piano sounds and other funky sounds + that feels like a real piano and has an arranger on it.. Now afaik what I need is the Controller/Laptop setup to achive this right? So all im looking for is the right stuff to buy from the right place and get the damn stuff

Gordon

If you had a Mac I'd tell you to buy a weighted keyboard with USB and to buy a piece of software called Reason. But you don't have a Mac so I'll get my coat (my mac).

Good luck.

dragon_ninja82

Originally posted by Gordon
If you had a Mac I'd tell you to buy a weighted keyboard with USB and to buy a piece of software called Reason. But you don't have a Mac so I'll get my coat (my mac).

Good luck.

If I were to point out that both items are available for the PC, would you change your mind and tell the lad?

Gordon

ahem

Go for it then! Reason has some pretty cool sounds - good samples of pianos and brass/wind/strings and drum loops for tempo changes. Easy to play live with also, unless you need tempo changes - you may experience difficulty in having mixes with different songs on different tempos. You can get around this by having something that controls your midi clock however.

www.propellerheads.se

shabbyroad

-ADREN- some questions for you
First, you say

I would like to have the lowest latency as possible for when playing live with effects on.

What exactly do you mean ?
Is it
1. the latency between striking the keyboard and hearing the sound from either your virtual synth/sampler/soundmodule or hardware synth/sampler/soundmodule ?
2. the latency between your live audio input and the tracks playing back on your audio-midi sequencing package ?

Secondly, what else do you want to do with this equipment ? Write songs ? Demo ? To what level ? If you want to write songs and you're a piano/vocal type singer songwriter then why get any of this equipment ? Get a good tape/minidisc/CD recorder with a half-decent microphone and get writing. Don't waste time wrestling with software.

As you say

Basically what id like is something to gig with that gives great piano sounds and other funky sounds + that feels like a real piano and has an arranger on it.. Now afaik what I need is the Controller/Laptop setup to achive this right? So all im looking for is the right stuff to buy from the right place and get the damn stuff

If you're looking to set something up for live use then there's lots of options out there but think carefully about humping one of those SL-880's to gigs - I did a gig a few years ago in the old Mean Fiddler and regretted bringing the SL-880... the nuances of the weighted keyboard were totally lost on the audience and my back has never forgiven me.
Not quite sure what you would do with the arranger - are you looking for 'auto accompaniment' ? Then depending on the gig you might have to consider using some sequences alongside your live playing.
If what you mean is that you want to layer other sounds under your piano sound and play them live then there's lots of options out there.

Another very important thing to consider :
Your desire to have a real piano sound is admirable but a lot of PA systems are so sh1te that they'll trash your sound and no-one will hear the benefit. This might not apply in your case though (you might even have a great PA and a great engineer....)

Check out a couple of publications to see what people are using. The US magazine 'Keyboard' used to be pretty good but I stopped subscribing last year (too many subscriptions and not enough time to read them all). Also 'Electronic Musician' is pretty good but has more of a studio/recording focus. The UK 'Sound On Sound' isn't bad either. Reviews are helpful but you should also take a look at what other musicians are using.

You might (or might not) have seen Sting's production/writing partner Kipper (dumb name but there you go) on the Jonathon Ross show last week. He's using a couple of laptops and a couple of basic keyboard controllers. The MD on the last Brian Wilson tour was using a similar setup.

Incidentally I have both the Roland PC200 MkII and the SL-880 & use both Macs and PCs so you're welcome to drop by the studio and check them out - just send a PM. I'm using Reason, ProTools and other packages (Ableton Live etc) and no one software package or hardware combination will work for every gig.

Anyway - based on the thread thus far....

One option to get connected to your laptop (you don't say if it's Mac or PC) is as per dragon_ninja82's advise and get a Roland PC200 MkII and take the MIDI out from your SL-880 and connect it to the MIDI in of the PC200.
In my experience it's always good to have an unweighted keyboard alongside your main board.

You should consider one of these "Ozone" by Midiman I have the more basic Oxygen8 which doesn't have the audio interface. It'll give you good pro-quality audio in & out ; a simple keyboard and a USB interface.

For an audio-only Digidesign's M-Box is pretty good. I have one of those with my laptop for songwriting. ProTools LE allows you to use lots of higher-end MIDI plug-ins such as MOTU's MachFive (I just got this and have been playing around with it - it's definitely better than Bitheadz Unity which never really worked properly for me.

I write 99% of my songs by propping my laptop on the music stand on my piano (so it is facing me) or sitting down with the laptop and my acoustic. I use a basic sound recorder and play + sing. The resulting audio files from these writing sessions are then put onto a CD so I can listen back to them later and see if there's anything worth working further on.
Though of course that might not be useful for you as you might write using synths etc.

-ADREN-

Thanks a load for the huge response shabby greatly appriciated, I think ive decided to go with getting a SL-880 with a AudioPhile USB external sound card which I think if you look at it acts as a Midi Interface also so thats killing to birds with one stone, then after that I think I will get a non-mac Laptop with 512ram and p2.4 ghz running Reason?? Reason be good for nice piano sounds + synths and stuff yea??

So the last thing I need to know now is where to actualy get all the stuff from? ;/

Where can I get that 880 from? musicfriends dont seem to do shipping love if they did though the price looks so nice

robbie1876

Found the Sl-880 here for €629 including shipping to your door. You probably could get it cheaper from the states, but shipping costs will be huge for that weight, and there is no way something that size will slip through customs unnoticed. They'll nail you on the import duty, so best to buy from the EU.

Cheers,

Robbie