Oh my God! They killed Quake! You Ba$tards!

Shinji

One of id Software's stated aims with Quake3:Arena was to make it into a game that was newbie-friendly. To this end, it has built in bots; it will have levels specifically designed for keyboard players; it has lots of lovely splash damage.

The scene NEEDS newbies, because without a big influx of them for Quake 3, I guarantee that this will be the one of the last pureDM style game ever produced. However, it's not going to get newbies. And the reason why? Without being inflammatory, it's because of you lot, and your counterparts all over the world.

You see, Quake and Quake2, and therefore Quake3, are practically sports at this stage. This presents a problem. Can you imagine a newbie starting off playing soccer by having a kick-about with the entire Brazilian international squad?

If it were even just down to skill, then it's not such a huge problem. But when the skilled players are also giving themselves an advantage by hacking their game.... Why is a newbie gonna bother themselves? Simple answer, they won't. There's plenty of other stuff out there to keep them interested, not like when Quake was released all those years ago and the rest of the world couldn't see id for dust.

If Quake dies, it'll be partially id's fault for continuing to push a very simplistic pureDM concept when the mainstream market (not you lot) really want more complex play, but it'll be mainly the fault of the elitist, closed community that has developed.

I personally loved each of the Quake games as they came out, and played them lots. I don't think I'll be playing Quake3. It carries too much baggage from the last 5 years. Tribes has a fresh start... That's where you'll find me.

Mata ne!
Rob

Vorosha

Well now I have to disagree.

I only started playing Quake relatively recently if you account for how long it was going on before I arrived. When I started playing I loved it. I'd get kicked around but I didn't care 'cos it was the GAME I was enjoying not the competition. Same happened with Half-Life... I loved the game and loved playing it multiplayer except I quit when I realised I was playing to win. It wasn't fun anymore.

My younger brother plays Quake2 in school and on-line sometimes and he loves it. He squeals when he makes a rail shot and he giggles away when I point out - "yeah, that guy you're beating is pretty good, he's in doozer (ahaha)". Once he actually gains any real feel for the game tho it'll get scary. He'll get ****ed off when someone labeled 'CRAP' beats him and he'll start thinking about the unfairness of connections. He'll want to spend money on ISDN.

I think the best way to be is be a Newbie. I don't think it's off putting being beaten when your just starting off in a game. It's the transition from 'newbie' to 'seasoned player with a reputation' that's scary.

PLUS - I'd LOVE to kick around with the Brazilian Internationals.

Daire.

shank

I dunno Shinji when I got Tribes I played it solid for a couple of weeks and enjoyed it.... to a point, but there's just something about the quake series the gets u commin back again and again. I think the simplicity of the games is the key to their sucess, all the Quake games are extremely easy to get into unlike tribes which is a wee bit more complex with armour classes and only being allowed carried certain weps etc.

The thing about Quake 1/2/3 is that you can jump in straight away and enjoy it, even with the ninja players on. They seem to work on 2 levels, the newbies enjoys running about just trying to get a couple of kills or avoiding being killed as best they can, were as the hardcore quaker is listening for sounds, timing wep/quad runs, stalking players etc. Whereas on Tribes your standin at the inv station wonderin why you can't get a mortar gun and a grenade laucher or whatever while Dr Teeth is standing behind you goin "outta my way bit[h".

So as far as I concerned id can keep churning them out like they allways have.

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bstep@tinet.ie
q2n.quake.ie

Dr_Teeth

Yeah I feel the same way Shin. I had a few games of q3test. It is a prettier version of Q2 with a railgun that doesn't kill respawners in one shot, and silly bouncy things. Where's the fun?

Teeth.

DeVore

In the silly bouncy things while railgunning that spawner who stayed to long to look at the pretty pictures.

DeV.

Shinji

Vor and Shank, both of you make valid points... But note one thing, you're both Q2 players, and Q2 is really played for laughs a lot more than Q1 is, imo. The Irish Quake2 scene is a lot more newbie-friendly than the Quake1 scene.

Now, Quake3 will be, best case scenario, a full merger of both communities. I can see fun and games for a newbie joining in those circumstances alright... Especially when there are games like Half-Life, UT and what have you out there, Quake3's gameplay, to the new player, looks shallow and a bit crap really.

This isn't to criticise it's gameplay. I've had this argument with people over Streetfighter vs. Tekken. Tekken, people perceive as being a better game because it has some flashier gimmicky ideas. Streetfighter, however, has a few simple ideas implemented superbly and with infinite scope for player ingenuity to be applied. Quake series is the Streetfighter of the PC world.

However.... Streetfighter tournaments have been gradually dying out, while Tekken ones are en vogue. Mainstream gaming is here to stay.... And I don't think that Quake can survive in that market.

On a final note.... Daire, yes, it'd be fun to have a kickabout with the Brazilian team maybe, but what if they were the only opponents available, and every time you went for a game, Ronaldo or someone was marking you? How long would you stay playing for?

And Shank, concerning the ease of getting into games.... the top selling games on consoles (and before we start the console vs PC argument, there are a **** of a lot more of them than of us, and with the new consoles having modems, we'll be playing against them...) are all complex games.... Metal Gear Solid, Final Fantasy VII, Gran Turismo... None of them are pick up and play. People are prepared to spend time getting into a game nowadays.

Mata ne!
Rob


[This message has been edited by Shinji (edited 19-05-99).]

shank

Correction Shinji, I've played both Q1 and 2, I played Q1 from when it came out up until Q2 came out. Back when I played Q1 the community was very similar to what the Q2 community is now ie fairly easy going.

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bstep@tinet.ie
q2n.quake.ie

LoLth

I dunno,

I've seen two newbies recently on the CA Quake 1 server, and they seemed to enjoy it a lot!

As far as playing better people, I'm about average at CA, but I love playing against the likes of Bugblaster (who kicks my ass whenever he's on!), Anjocan (who I can maybe get a sneaky kill on every now and then), and.. well loads of others - Gand is always good for a nice 'sneak-match'. I lose miserably, but I enjoy it! When (and there are times) I do score a few points off them it's a good feeling, like a measure of whether or not I'm improving. The newbies I mentioned earlier were stunned at how good some of the guys were but they really seemed to enjoy themselves (especially when they got a frag!).

The thing is, without these excellent players on the server, kicking people about the place the standard would fall as new players have nothing to aspire to.

As for the Ronaldo analogy, I would either find a way of crippling him without the ref seeing, of course, or I would learn some new trick that he's not expecting. (I reckon the crippling idea would work best)..

J.

ButcherOfNog

shinji, if you're looking at lreland to prove your point you are well wrong, the state of the net in ireland is keeping newbies away, like you know what the castleblaney pop is like

the uk is full of q2 newbies, q2 newbie clans pop up all over the shop, just look at the no of clans in the ukccl, and then add on the 40+ clans on the waiting list to enter. the state of the net is whats holding online gaming in ireland back.

Ronin

the fact that your all nerds is whats keeping it back

gaming, as in playing a game other then console is still considered nerdish and anti social to a lot of people, cept the ones who play..

lan play has sprung up around here again I don`t play hard no more, tis too easy , but it is fun I just run around killing ppl, like the old days, thats what makes quake a good game its speed and ease of play rather then the pretty pictures, q2 was too slow, while q3 has come a long way, its not as good as q1 was, but then again what game ever will be q1???

Ro.

Rev Hellfire

Paa, Quake 3 and me arrse, all those new fangled Quake games are just NSNIPES with fancy graphics, the real hardcore players are still playing it.

Now thats game play, yes it doesnt have any of those fancy graphics all you newbie quake heads like, with your greater than two colours, pure candy floss that, just gets in the way, and all those weapons, shaft(newbie weapon), rail haa, whats all this trail stuff newbie also. Firing a full stop that takes skill.

LoLth

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Fly my pretties! Fly!

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hey you! You lazy little punctuation mark! You're fired!

See, no skill required....

Christ! work is boring....my brain is muuuuuuuushhhhhhhh....