Am I still Christian without Church?

memphis

Ok, this is simple enough. Just want peoples opinion. I'm a baptised Catholic, and over the last year have fallen away from the Church.

I don't mean that I no longer belive in God or no longer try to live a good life. I just no longer attend Church/Mass. In fact I haven't gone to Church in about 4 months in not more.

Am I a bad Christian because I don't go anymore? I have a belief that I can still practise my religion without attending church. God wants us to be close to him, to respect him, to do good, so where does church come into it? Can't we do without it? Can't we just go about our daily lives and say the odd prayer, do the odd good deed, etc.

Opinions plese!!

Stark

I think mass has more to do with the community aspect of things than the individual aspect of things. Of course it's all impersonal now so I don't think there's much point.

spudulike

'say the odd prayer, do the odd good deed' - that smells of laziness to me. The principle of going to church, in my mind, is a gesture to God that you are prepared to put aside 40 mins in the week, as a selfless act for his benefit.

People today want an easy solution to things - and religion is not always easy - you have to work at it and make an effort.

misswex

Originally posted by memphis
Ok, this is simple enough. Just want peoples opinion. I'm a baptised Catholic, and over the last year have fallen away from the Church.

I don't mean that I no longer belive in God or no longer try to live a good life. I just no longer attend Church/Mass. In fact I haven't gone to Church in about 4 months in not more.

Am I a bad Christian because I don't go anymore? I have a belief that I can still practise my religion without attending church. God wants us to be close to him, to respect him, to do good, so where does church come into it? Can't we do without it? Can't we just go about our daily lives and say the odd prayer, do the odd good deed, etc.

Opinions plese!!

Well I hope so because I am in the same situation!!

Have become so disillusion with the Catholic Church but I still believe in God etc so I reckon that not going to mass does not make you a bad Christian!!

DMT

Originally posted by memphis
I don't mean that I no longer belive in God or no longer try to live a good life. I just no longer attend Church/Mass. In fact I haven't gone to Church in about 4 months in not more.

Your not only still Christian, you're in fact still Catholic.

mr_angry

I've gone the same way myself lately. I think the church acts as a facilitator for Catholicism - you hear the word of God, get communion, etc. However, I just disagree strongly with the church's position on a lot of things at the moment, such as women preists, and its views on other religions. I really dont feel like going to mass makes me a better person anymore, which I think it should.

People today want an easy solution to things - and religion is not always easy - you have to work at it and make an effort.

Its funny - I both agree and disagree with this statement. You do have to work hard, and making an effort to sacrafice your time for it is important. But I still think you should feel good about your religion - you should be able to enjoy it. At the moment, every mass I go to is unenjoyable. I find its too long, predictable, repetitive, the sermons are usually about doom and gloom instead of hope and charity, and on the rare occasion that I find myself interested in the sermon, I'm usually disagreeing strongly with the message.

I want to be a good Catholic, and I want to go to mass. But I want to come out of it feeling great - proud to be a Catholic, and I don't get that at the moment.

Baggio

I can never understand how anyone can believe WITHOUT the mass, it's the re-enactment of calvary itself and is the most important moment of each day and the high point of our faith. The most powerful graces are given by God at the mass when the person takes a deep interest and makes an effort to worship from the heart. I used to GO to Mass also,,,I never missed it, but just went thru the motions etc, then something happened and I got a wake up call!
...I ended up buying the complete catechism and across a 2 week period,,,READ the whole lot!..it's amazing what the faith contains and how much help is on hand from above if only we look for it. I know there have been scandals etc, but I won't turn my back on whats right just because some weirdo's got under the gate and "everyone else " seems to be leaving, if only people knew what these times hold for the church and those who TRULY believe in Christ....there's no doubt,,,were all being tested now,,and it will get worse,,,there will be much more hostility towards catholicism and the Mass will be targeted I have no doubt that many more will leave,,,and Old Hornhead will dance with delight,,,he hates all innocent things and the Mass most of all....so you should think hard before turning your back on God's great gift of the mass,,the other side only delight in it....ciao' amigo's

...............Baggio.....

llatsni

Originally posted by memphis
... I have a belief that I can still practise my religion without attending church. God wants us to be close to him, to respect him, to do good, so where does church come into it? Can't we do without it? Can't we just go about our daily lives and say the odd prayer, do the odd good deed, etc.

Are you a follower of Christ, or a practiser of religion? Is there a differance? Is the differance important? Can you answer any of these questions?

If you profess to be a follower of Christ, then He compells us to be part of the body of belivers, to Love & serve His church. Now you may argue that you can be a member of the body, and not attend a physical building, this may be true, but my experience of people with this attitude is usualy that it is drawn from bitternes toward a person or group. I have yet to hear of a 'theological' reason why someone would exclude themselves.

If you are a practicer of religion than I would argue that you most likely have not yet experienced the Love and Grace availiable to you through a true relationship with Jesus.

Stark

That's probably true, but is it really possible to get that out of going to Church these days? You're not going to get it from slipping into church, sitting in your seat and then leaving straight afterwards.

I'd say the only real way of getting benefit from going to Church is through some sort of active involvement, that way you can get to communicate with other people in the church going community. I've seen people get great benefit from doing this. Unfortunately for me the church as a whole is just too judgemental for me to feel fully accepted.

watty

Church should be more than going to a service. It is about a local community of believers.


When you are naturally born, you don't stop being your Mother's or Father's son if you stop visiting.

Similarly while the Church (community) and going to Church (services) are important, they do not define you as a Beliver or Christian. Your belief or past confession of faith (becomming one of the Father in Heaven's "sons") makes you a Christian, not Church attendance.

In fact the blackest Demon of Hell (or at least an Atheist) could regularly attend Church and even take Mass or Communion every day and NOT be a Christian.....


Obviously the theory is that it is easier to be a Christian and be supportedf in your Faith and Worship/Praise God etc if attending Church. Sometimes though some Churches in practice don't seem so encouraging.....

Baggio

Watty,
I understand what your trying to say, but,,,you must understand,,,the blackest demon from hell, could NEVER recieve communion, simply because, he and his pals are liars tom the begginning to the end, they cannot face truth and the complete body and blood of Christ has COMPLETE authority and power over them, its putiry and love would burn them to the core,,,,no one these days seems to understand the true power of the Sacred host, no Devil ever recieved it, or ever will.
Indeed he hates it because of what it IS...he is doing all he can to erode peoples beliefe in it and make it a "symbol".of Christ with no true presence,,believe me many are and will be decieved by this,,and it's s real danger,,eventually very few will believe in what it TRULY is and the Church will eventually be forced to go underground because of the iritating nature of us to defend it in the face of "the vast majority" opinon which our media and politicians keep quoting and babling on about. As Ghandi once said: "if you are 1 against the WHOLE world,,the truth is still the truth"

ciao' amigo's...never give up the faith,,,to die for Christ is a glory, to die AGAINST Christ is a crime and grave mistake.

Baggio

Lukin Black

I stumbled across an account of someone converting from an American Lutheran church to Catholicism, and it really struck me how un-community orientated and how impersonal the Catholic Church can be. One thing above all rang really true:

From this web page.
The first thing I noticed upon entering the lobby of our local Catholic parish, St. Mary’s, was the absence of a coat rack. Catholics, unlike Lutherans, worship with their coats on, which gives the impression they are making an obligatory pit stop. After Mass, most do not linger to talk but instead race to be the first out of the parking lot. Obviously, becoming Catholic was going to require a few adjustments, including giving up that Protestant feeling of belonging to a close–knit community.

watty

Originally posted by Baggio
Watty,
the blackest demon from hell, could NEVER recieve communion, simply because, he and his pals are liars tom the begginning to the end, they cannot face truth and the complete body and blood of Christ has COMPLETE authority and power over them, its putiry and love would burn them to the core,,,,no one these days seems to understand the true power of the Sacred host, no Devil ever recieved it, or ever will.
ciao' amigo's...never give up the faith,,,to die for Christ is a glory, to die AGAINST Christ is a crime and grave mistake.

An interesting view, and in a Metaphysical viewpoint true, but only applicable in a Denis Wheatly or Stephen King Novel (or maybe a "Buffy" story).

I'm reasonably sure that belief and Faith in God will keep off creatures of a pure spiritual evil nature, but that no Physical Creature is affected at all by the Wine and Bread (Host). Other than by faith.

Certianly lots of people with no belief at all take Mass (and Communion in Anglican or Protestant churches).


Some Catholic Churches/Parishes are "good" communities and some Fundemental Evangelical Churches are like Parent Teacher meetings.

No-one in the Church has a monopoly on Community or Apostasy. It is the people and Ministers/Clergy/Priests in an area that can count more than the "denomination".

How many Presbyterians, Methodists, Roman Catholics or Anglicans actually know what thier Church beleives as cental Canon that sets it apart from the other ones? I'm not talking about stuff like Celebacy as Rome even admits this is more "Tradition" than actual artical of Christian Faith (A Married Anglican Priest can become a Roman Catholic Priest). So not things that a Vatican Council or General Assembly could change in 50 years, but central reasons for Differences.

Or indeed how many realise how many of the centrally truths of the Gospel (or Bible in general) are held in common.

You'll find More agreement between Paisley's "Free Presbyterian Church" (which is more like Baptist/Roman in organisation than Presbyterian, after all Pasley is "pope" for life of his Church!) and Roman Catholic Church, than with any "main" Chrisitan Church and the Mormons or JWs.

firebird

The short answer (as I see it) is yes, of course you can still be Christian without going to Mass.
Christian does not equal Catholic tho.
You're still a Catholic, in the eyes of the RC Church, whether you go to Mass or not. But according to Catholic doctrine, every time you miss Mass you should go to Confession and be absolved of the sin you've committed, by missing Mass...
But (in my opinion), its you that counts, not the RC Church. If you still think you're Catholic (or want to be), you should probably take up going to Mass again. If on the other hand, you think you're closer to a different church/denomination, why not try visiting them, talking to people about that church, learning about it?
According to the Bible, wherever two or more are gathered in the name of the Lord, He will be there... Tho this doesn't mean prayer on your own is worthless, or anything like it, it does suggest that to really get to know God, you should do it with others. If you're in Dublin, try any of the churches listed in the first thread on this board... If you're outside Dublin and can't find a church, let me know & I'll have a look.
My theory on all this is, there's no point trying to worship a God you believe in, in a Church you don't believe in... Find a church that speaks to you, whose beliefs make sense to you, and go with it. A new church might be just what you need... And if its not, at least you'll have learnt something by your experiences

firebird

Mr_Angry4: For RC Masses with interesting, thought-provoking, enlivening sermons, if you're anywhere near the place, try UCD. They've also got some amazing music at the services, during term time...

mr_angry

Sounds good. One of the things I love about Mass is a good choir. Unfortunately I'm in Dundalk, but if I'm ever passing by, I'll be sure to drop in.

Roll on Christmas, for some real singing...

watty

In RC church in Evesham they had Hymbooks. Never seen them in RC in Ireland. Common though in most non-RFC churches.

It really helps the singing if you have the words!

Crash

myself i have a serious problem concerning the sacrement of mass. sitting in church at 10.30 this morning for the first time in 5 years at my grandfathers funeral - doing a reading even - its incredibly structured. Religion to me is a deeply personal thing, something that can be shared but should NEVER be confined. a religion can have all the views it wants on various things but once a religion starts to dictate how its believers should communicate with their god i feel its wrong. Making missing mass once a week a mortal sin means you are dictating that this person must go to a certain place at a certain time or else God will view them as not worthy of Heaven. which is wrong.

So in answer memphis - yes i believe that if you believe in the basic beliefs of the Catholic Church or Protestant church you ARE still a Christian. worship your own way - just dont go lazy on it if you want to feel justified in saying you are a christian.

thetourist

i have to confess not reading all the posts so sorry if i'm appearing out of line here ... my story quickly is this ... i was a catholic not really attending .... had a very real and genuine experience with the holy spirit ( this was in no way connected with any church or anything as such ) ... went on my merry way for a good few months happily devouring the bible etc.... but then various difficulties came ... to cut a long story short i ended up sort of in and out of a local ( basicaly pentecostal ) fellowship ..... ....... and here's my point ( at last you may gasp) .... up until this time i had always maintained that i was meant to be on the sidelines as it were; but one night the lord just revealed to me the role and importance of being surrounded to a point with other believers ...... i cant explain it more than that ( and not bore everyone) ... but take it from someone who's been both on the edge and in the middle ...... in the middle is a bit harder .... but it's much better ... here i am 6 years on ... and i'm having more fun than i ever had .....


.... and i am of the opinion that going to church doesn't make you a christian any more than going to the filcks makes you popcorn ... the reverse is true also .... read the bible .... being a christian is a matter of the heart ... not of what you do on sunday mornings ..... but sunday mornings is what it's really all about !!! ww)

Treetypie

according to Catholic doctrine, every time you miss Mass you should go to Confession and be absolved of the sin you've committed, by missing Mass...

I've been looking at all your posts and it's really interesting. You see I actually used to do that I went to church for every SINGLE holy day and if I missed one I'd have to go to confession. The priest thought this was funny cause honestly... not a single person in their right minds would go to confession for just missing one week. It makes it sound like such an obligation. I used to have to go if I was sick and I would only get to miss it if I was absolutely dying!
The fact is that when you're there it's so impersonal everyone is only there cause they feel that they'd be doing something wrong if they didn't go. Everyone rushess in and out and I never understood the last line in Mass.
"Let Us Go In Peace, Thanks Be To God" I always wondered if that was a subtle way of saying thanks be to god we're out of here. I don't think that you're not a Christian if you're not going to Mass. Being a christian is like a state of mind. It's what you think. But then I also believe in god but have given up the catholic religion. I believe in God but all the beliefs and doctrines of the church seem wrong to me and all the other religions seem like they make so much more sense.
Sorry to be boring you but I was really interested to see all that you guys ahd to say about religion and felt I should put in my 2 cents.

thetourist

all the beliefs and doctrines of the church seem wrong to me

you should be aware that there are what are generaly referred to as "new" churches around and to be honest the doctrines they hold seem a lot more reasonable than most of the catholic ones - i am a member of a pentecostal church - we dont hold particularly strongly to the name tag - it realy is just a way of referring to us - though we'd probably preferr to be called just "christians" -- mainly because we follow the bible -- which makes an aweful lot of sense -- especially if you dont get too serious about the ancilliary issues -- like the exact meaning of various scriptures !!! rather than just getting a general feeling for the meaning as a whole -- anyway our sunday meetings ( im on my way as i write btw ) last 2 hours or more -- and we ALL LOVE it --- because it's REAL -- and we meet with god !!! - i've been going seriously now for about 6-7 years and nothing is likely to make me stop --- i know all the other religions make a lot of sense to me too --- but the one differrence between all them and christianity is this --- jesus' claimed he was god -- that would make him either mad or god in the flesh -- he was not a "good man" -- no good man would claim to be god if he was not --- i believe he was god in the flesh -- thats why im a christian