Irish film Censorship

TetsuoHashimoto

Just got out a film called "Crimson Rivers", it's a good film but..
looking at the cover reveals something bad

crazy censorship!!

In France ..au moins de 12 ans ( 12 cert )

UK censor's office -classified 15 years of age

Ireland - Eire offig scrudoir na scannan- ( 18 )



This is a wee bit strange

Take the director Abel Ferrara , he made a film Driller killer that got banned in Ireland, ever since the Irish Censor board have made an effort to ban every film he has made, including romantic comedies!!

TetsuoHashimoto

isn't it time for an EU standard?

Tyrrial

yup i agree.
the irish censorship guys are just a bunch of spitful bastards! they shouldn't be aloud boycott films because they don't like the director

Draco

Originally posted by Tyrrial
yup i agree.
the irish censorship guys are just a bunch of spitful bastards! they shouldn't be aloud boycott films because they don't like the director

Back that up with proof will you?

s8n

well they seem to have something against abel ferrara and tarantino (reservoir dogs was banned for years and afaik from dusk... is still banned)

BKtje

Some of the stuff they come out with is unbelievable but they have gotten more lenient in recent times. (which i actually hate now).

Films are no longer 15's 12's etc but 15pg , 12pg etc. Means theres a lot more kids in cinemas watching films that i dont want them in doing their noise thing. (Thankfully i go late at night and it aint so bad but still)

When i was young tho i wished for this very fact but now it just annoys me

jonno

I agree with the EU standard idea. Seen as how there is a European Union they should set up a EU film censorship board and allow it to look after film censorship for all members. It seems the fairest way around for all.

seanos

Giving EU more power to control our country, and regulations is not the answer [regardless of the question i believe].

What makes you think you'll like what the EU come up with ? ... at least we can argue with the decision somewhat if it's an Irish-made decision, however if decision is made in Europe ... their not going to hear our plea...

Judging from some of the previous EU regulations ...
Irish Sausages cannot be exported to EU due to lack of meat content.
there are many other such lovely laws - that is just one i know off-hand.

I've no problem with Irish government rulings [for the most part in film censorship - think we've slightly bigger problems] however giving more power to the EU is not a great idea - they've already got a lot of power, in a relatively short space of time.

Miguel_Sanchez

Originally posted by s8n
well they seem to have something against abel ferrara and tarantino (reservoir dogs was banned for years and afaik from dusk... is still banned)

I'd like to know what Abel Ferrara 'romantic comedy' was banned in Ireland, or that they 'tried to ban'. Loads of his films are available in Ireland (except for Bad Lieutenant and Driller Killer, which are the only two banned here AFAIK).

Also - I don't think Resevoir Dogs was ever banned here. I remember when it was out in the cinema and I know there was a delay in getting a release on video but this was just because there was a delay with the English censor and at that time if a video didn't get released in England it didn't get released here.

So I think it's wholly inaccurate to say that they seem to have something against Abel Ferrara and Quentin Tarantino. The only Tarantino film banned here is Dusk Till Dawn (and he only co-wrote and acted in that) and there are only two Abel Ferrara films banned here, he has loads out here.

seanos

Originally posted by Jeff_Lebowski
The only Tarantino film banned here is Dusk Till Dawn (and he only co-wrote and acted in that)

You sure thats banned here?
I know i've seen film a few times on tv [possibly english channels - however thought seen it on tv3/net2 ... ]

Miguel_Sanchez

It's banned here alright. There was a rape scene that the censor objected to and hence the banning.

I'm not sure but I think this scene may be cut out for showing on Sky movie channels although I think Channel 4 have showed the fully uncut movie.

Another point regarding banned films - I know that Showgirls was banned in Ireland (more so for being crap than for anything else) but I have seen it freely available in a video shop in Galway along with Natural Born Killers (before it was resubmitted and passed here) - are some video shops allowed stock these movies on the basis that they're a private club or what's the story does anyone know?

mike65

Originally posted by Jeff_Lebowski
Another point regarding banned films - I know that Showgirls was banned in Ireland (more so for being crap than for anything else) but I have seen it freely available in a video shop in Galway along with Natural Born Killers (before it was resubmitted and passed here) - are some video shops allowed stock these movies on the basis that they're a private club or what's the story does anyone know?

Private clubs like the IFC are beyond the law in that respect as far as I know.

Speaking of censorship - tonight on Sci-Fi Channel they are showing Vistor Q by Japanese shock mechant Takashi Miike its availible to anyone who has cable/satellite and I bet it would never have recieved a cert had it been submitted (which it proberly never was).
http://www.becksincrediblefilmfest.co.nz/m_visitorq.html
http://www.midnighteye.com/reviews/visitorq.shtml

Mike.

Cake Fiend

It's a bit ridiculous alright, you could be excused for thinking that the Irish censors systematically award an 18 certificate to any BBCF-rated 15 cert movies.

Victor

Censorship is not within the remit of the EU - social / moral issues are within the remit of individual governments. It would be very difficult to standardise film censorship within an unstandardised EU, e.g. it is illegal to even criticise homosexuality in Sweden. Not every country wants to go down that route.

I think the censorship has moved towards censoring drug use, extreme violence and sexual violence / exploitation. I suspect very little foul language, ordinary violence or other topics are censored these days.

mike65

Originally posted by Sico
It's a bit ridiculous alright, you could be excused for thinking that the Irish censors systematically award an 18 certificate to any BBCF-rated 15 cert movies.

I was going to mention that! That used to be the tradition and very few films have bucked the trend (one that did was "End of the Affair" a Neil Jordan movie from about 2 years ago which starred Ralf Feinnes that got 15s here and an 18 in the UK).

Mike.

sovtek

Originally posted by Sinnocence
, however if decision is made in Europe ... their not going to hear our plea...

Judging from some of the previous EU regulations ...

Judging from the previous EU rulings Ireland has actually gotten it's way in a few areas...actually to the detriment of most Irish. One example being the import tax still applied to cars.
Why should they be allowed to ban movies anyway?

BKtje

indeed why are films banned, are irish adults not mature enough to decide wether they want to watch a film? if theres any doubt on it stick an B sticker on it or something meaning not advisable viewing.

ringzer

Originally posted by TetsuoHashimoto
isn't it time for an EU standard?

That wouldnt work, simply because the culture of the different countries in the EU differ greatly. The social and cultural differences wouldnt allow for such an pan - EU Standard

Ciaran

Victor

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
indeed why are films banned, are irish adults not mature enough to decide wether they want to watch a film?

They aren't mature enough to drink sensibly or drive safely so are they actually mature? Should sexual violence / exploitation be freely available on video?

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
if theres any doubt on it stick an B sticker on it or something meaning not advisable viewing.

So the pervs know what to look for?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

erm mike.. i don't see any tv listings for visitor q on sci fi channel.. are you sure about that?

therecklessone

Originally posted by mike65
Private clubs like the IFC are beyond the law in that respect as far as I know.

Yeah, but when the IFC tried to show Natural Born Killers it had its collar felt by the local constabulary. After some discussion, the film was removed from their program, alledgedly because they were told their alcohol license would be in trouble when it was up for renewal.

At the time the IFC depended on the bar very heavily to subsidise their operations, so they had to cave.

Alledgedly...

mike65

erm mike.. i don't see any tv listings for visitor q on sci fi channel.. are you sure about that?

According to the NTL Go-Digital listings its on Saturday at 11.40 pm.

Also here - www.sky.com/skycom/tvguide/0,,470-1,00.html

Mike.

Victor

Originally posted by therecklessone
Yeah, but when the IFC tried to show Natural Born Killers it had its collar felt by the local constabulary. After some discussion, the film was removed from their program, alledgedly because they were told their alcohol license would be in trouble when it was up for renewal.

Not quite. (a) It was the Minister for Justice (b) the film was banned (specifically regarding the copycat murders in the media at the time) as opposed to uncertified (c) the IFC planned an 8 week programme, not a “once off ” for it’s members. The IFC was in essence trying to circumvent the ban as opposed to “showing art”.

simu

That wouldnt work, simply because the culture of the different countries in the EU differ greatly. The social and cultural differences wouldnt allow for such an pan - EU Standard

True, it's very rare for films to be considered unsuitable for under 18s in France. It's hard to decide about this kind of stuff, though. The problem is that while some young ppl (i.e. under 18) have a mature attitiude towards sex and violence on the screen and can tell the difference between fantasy and reality, there are others who still don't get it even when they do reach adulthood.

Karl Hungus

They aren't mature enough to drink sensibly or drive safely so are they actually mature?

How is the implication of being under the influence alcohol while driving ANY relevance to the topic at hand? They test, and henceforth liscence people to drive, not to choose a form of art/entertainment that they might like.

You're some freaking tit Victor if you're trying to say that because some yobbo goes out, gets pissed drunk, then slams his car into an old lady, that the general public shouldn't have the right to look at a movie in its indended cut.

Should sexual violence / exploitation be freely available on video?

Well be a little more specific there.
Are we talking SNUFF movies here!?
Or a fictional peice of work?

Because as far as 'art' goes, I dont think there should be ANY restrictions for anyone of the legal age requirement, there should be a right to choose freely, reguardless of what some 'morally just' members of society deem is right and true.

Blitzkrieger

Originally posted by Jeff_Lebowski
The only Tarantino film banned here is Dusk Till Dawn (and he only co-wrote and acted in that)

There's a great song in that just before the killing starts. I've given up on Irish censorship - if you want to see something that badly you can import it easily. Most of the time, it's probably not worth the hassle. I oppose any censorship of films, but you'll never beat the scaremongering hypocrites of the film board.

therecklessone

Originally posted by AngelWhore
How is the implication of being under the influence alcohol while driving ANY relevance to the topic at hand? They test, and henceforth liscence people to drive, not to choose a form of art/entertainment that they might like.

You're some freaking tit Victor if you're trying to say that because some yobbo goes out, gets pissed drunk, then slams his car into an old lady, that the general public shouldn't have the right to look at a movie in its indended cut.

Suggest you re-read the original post, I certainly didn't read it the way you did.

Might require a retraction...;)

Victor

Originally posted by AngelWhore
How is the implication of being under the influence alcohol while driving ANY relevance to the topic at hand? They test, and henceforth liscence people to drive, not to choose a form of art/entertainment that they might like.

As a nation we have a problem with acting maturely.

Originally posted by AngelWhore
You're some freaking tit Victor if you're trying to say that because some yobbo goes out, gets pissed drunk, then slams his car into an old lady, that the general public shouldn't have the right to look at a movie in its indended cut.

I realise they are quite different, but it the context of people watching Natural Born Killer and then going out and killing people (or allegedly watching Natural Born Killer and then going out and killing people), some line needs to be drawn.

Originally posted by AngelWhore
Well be a little more specific there. Are we talking SNUFF movies here!? Or a fictional peice of work?

Not quite, I'm talking about films where the consent of the actors or characters is doubtful.

For example:
"Ibiza Uncovered". 16 year old girl having her nipples fondled / flicked / whatever in a bar. While documentaries aren't covered by censorship, one has to wonder about people getting their kicks out of a 16 year old.

"Terminator 3". Note how the violence has been toned down a lot from the previous films or is it that we are simply more used to it.

Danish Films from the 1970s. When child pornography was legalised there. Network 2 showed one (definitely on the tamer side, I'd say) with an extended scene with a 13-14 year old topless with her breasts "differentially framed".

And I think we all know that you don't need to kill the Actors to produce a snuff movie.

Originally posted by AngelWhore
Because as far as 'art' goes, I dont think there should be ANY restrictions for anyone of the legal age requirement, there should be a right to choose freely, reguardless of what some 'morally just' members of society deem is right and true.

So kiddie pron is OK then? Especially if it is artisitic?

mike65

Originally posted by Victor
"Terminator 3". Note how the violence has been toned down a lot from the previous films or is it that we are simply more used to it.

Termionator 3 has a 12 cert I think and thats all down to the need to recoup the vast budget.

Mike.

Lemming

Originally posted by Jeff_Lebowski
It's banned here alright. There was a rape scene that the censor objected to and hence the banning.

There is no actual rape scene. I have the original VHS release (bought in the UK where it wasn't banned), and then upgraded to the Special Ed. DVD double disk set (also frmo the UK), where there still isn't a rape scene either in any of the additional footage.

It's insinuated that Tarantino's character rapes and kills a hostage, but you don't see anything

I think the film was banned due to "excessive violence" and religious overtones in the film, which would be in keeping with our wonderful biddy-state :rolleyes:

Karl Hungus

Originally posted by therecklessone
Suggest you re-read the original post, I certainly didn't read it the way you did.

Might require a retraction...;)

No, I'm just feeling in a argumentative mood, Recklessone.

Originally posted by Victor
As a nation we have a problem with acting maturely.

As a nation we have very large groups of people who's maturity is very much in question. But at the same time there's man who are indeed perfectly mature, and is it right that these people should suffer the consequences of such a massive generalisation?

If the entire internet was suddenly banned from the country because some kids built a bomb with a recepie from a website, and little Johnny lost his legs, then I'd imagine you'd be singing a very different tune here. Namely about the internet not being to blame, and an absence of parental supervision possibly being the culprit? Maybe ma & da were two busy with a bottle of whiskey to notice Johnny was building a dangerous weapon in the garage?

Originally posted by Victor
I realise they are quite different, but it the context of people watching Natural Born Killer and then going out and killing people (or allegedly watching Natural Born Killer and then going out and killing people), some line needs to be drawn.

So are you saying that someone, or very well anyone that would watch the film will innevitably turn into psychotic maniacs? I could certainly say that anyone who'd go out and kill people, reguardless if they watched Natural Born Killers or The Wizard Of Oz beforehand, has some serious psychological problems. And I think that you couldn't argue there.

So, are we to accept that there are some seriously disturbed people out there, and that banning all the 'Nasty' movies in the world wouldn't stop them, or are we going to throw the old "Movies made 'em do it!" scapegoat around?

And in that sense, no, a line doesn't need to be drawn.

Originally posted by Victor
Not quite, I'm talking about films where the consent of the actors or characters is doubtful.

For example:
"Ibiza Uncovered". 16 year old girl having her nipples fondled / flicked / whatever in a bar. While documentaries aren't covered by censorship, one has to wonder about people getting their kicks out of a 16 year old.

In a sense where the consent is in question, I'd argee with you, but you're not being very clear with your point here, unless the violent scenes in Natural Born Killers weren't infact staged?

Originally posted by Victor
Danish Films from the 1970s. When child pornography was legalised there. Network 2 showed one (definitely on the tamer side, I'd say) with an extended scene with a 13-14 year old topless with her breasts "differentially framed".

And I think we all know that you don't need to kill the Actors to produce a snuff movie.

I think I'll be a little more clear with my point here. I'm using the 'Snuff movie' analogy here, as in the differences between a work of fiction, and something that is in reality non-concentual violence, or sexuality.

Here's an different analogy.
In the film 'A Clockwork Orange' there is quite a lot of sexual voilence. Do I feel it is nessicary to the plot of the film? Yes, I do. However, I would not take any pleasure in seeing the factual rape of a woman.

Originally posted by Victor
So kiddie pron is OK then? Especially if it is artisitic?

See above points.

I read somewhere that children are going to be brought in to watch films with the censors so that the can tell the censors if the violence is comical or nasty.

Johnmb

I've always felt that as long as no laws were broken in making the film (i.e. any sex/violence etc occurred between consenting adults), it should not be banned, no matter what others feel about it morally. Films do not make people psyco, although they may give pyscos some good ideas, but cartoon violence could do that just as easily, as well as the news. We don't ban them, so we shouldn't ban films either. If the censors don't like the content of a film, then they should give it a cert and refrain from watching it again.

pickarooney

Originally posted by Darko
I read somewhere that children are going to be brought in to watch films with the censors so that the can tell the censors if the violence is comical or nasty.

Are they that bad they can't tell the difference themselves?

Victor

Originally posted by pickarooney
Are they that bad they can't tell the difference themselves?

No, they see violence on TV everyday, they want to see what uniformed / unopinionated children see.

When they first played "Lemmings", my nieces (aged circa 6) started crying when some lemmings fell of the edge and died. Imagine their reaction to Reservoir Dogs.

ObeyGiant

Originally posted by Victor
When they first played "Lemmings", my nieces (aged circa 6) started crying when some lemmings fell of the edge and died.

And they're going to be using these kinds of morons to decide what the general public can and can't see?
Good grief!

ClevererThanYou

Originally posted by Darko
I read somewhere that children are going to be brought in to watch films with the censors so that the can tell the censors if the violence is comical or nasty.

Care to cite a source?

Giblet

Originally posted by Victor

For example:
"Ibiza Uncovered". 16 year old girl having her nipples fondled / flicked / whatever in a bar. While documentaries aren't covered by censorship, one has to wonder about people getting their kicks out of a 16 year old.

One has to wonder about the same people watching nappy ads, sanatary towel ads and toilet paper ads and dropping some seed.

I think decent people know what they should be able to watch and not watch. I think decent people know what should be censored and what shouldn't be, the argument here is censoring stuff that should not be censored, due to complaints by a few quacks!

Natural born killers is comical, someone who goes around killing people after watching it was not influenced by this film, rather it might of triggered something already there, and therefore it's a problem with the person, not the film.

The original argument here was the censorship of a film based on the directors reputation, more than the film itself.

Miguel_Sanchez

Originally posted by Lemming
There is no actual rape scene. I have the original VHS release (bought in the UK where it wasn't banned), and then upgraded to the Special Ed. DVD double disk set (also frmo the UK), where there still isn't a rape scene either in any of the additional footage.

It's insinuated that Tarantino's character rapes and kills a hostage, but you don't see anything

I think the film was banned due to "excessive violence" and religious overtones in the film, which would be in keeping with our wonderful biddy-state :rolleyes:

Fair enough. I haven't actually seen the film and was just paraphrasing from an article I read some time ago about banned films in Ireland. Is it possible that they cut the scene for the English release? Some countries force cuts on films (although not England any more) whereas the Irish censor wouldn't force, only recommend cuts and if they weren't made he would refuse release.

I know that if a rape seen is shown in any way as being enjoyable or sexual exciting then censors come down on it like a ton of bricks. Not sure if this is the case in Dusk til Dawn.

Personally I think any films with Tarantino acting in them should be banned, especially Destiny turns on the Radio.

Victor

Originally posted by Victor
"Ibiza Uncovered". 16 year old girl having her nipples fondled / flicked / whatever in a bar. While documentaries aren't covered by censorship, one has to wonder about people getting their kicks out of a 16 year old.

Originally posted by Giblet
One has to wonder about the same people watching nappy ads, sanatary towel ads and toilet paper ads and dropping some seed.

My point was that she was 16 (or said to be 16) and this was an extended scene.

Originally posted by Jeff_Lebowski
I know that if a rape seen is shown in any way as being enjoyable or sexual exciting then censors come down on it like a ton of bricks. Not sure if this is the case in Dusk til Dawn.

What about Dead Calm? http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0097162/