Voluntaray Euthanasia!. Should people be helped to Die?..

Paddy20

The right to choose, when you die. Is currently illegal in Ireland.
Many people believe in Voluntary Euthanasia for the - mentally stable - terminally ill.

Should mature individuals have the "Right to choose" between whether or not they should continue to live or die. Thereby, making the introduction of an "opt-out" tablet legally available?..

P.

Poll options:-

1, Yes
2,No
3, Not sure!
4, A public Referendum* is needed now, on this humanatarian issue!.

DeVore

Yes. There are certain restraints I'd like to see in place (such as the person should be mentally capable of making that decision rationally) but in general I'd say yes.

My father was recently very very unwell. He was in fact, technically dead for about 5 mins

He came back and he's fought hard and he's well on the road to being fully recovered.
However, he had a light at the end of the tunnel. It was possible for him to get better. If he had been in pain all the time or physically extremely disfigured/injured with no hope of recovery then I'm sure he (and I) would have wanted to see him exit this world in dignity.

I know I would prefer to leave this world on my feet and by my own hand then to waste away in pain and causing hardship to my loved ones around me for what? a few more months? years? We all die sometime. I'd prefer to put my house in order, hug everyone I love, say my goodbyes, pack my bags mentally and then take the first step down what might be a very short or very long road. Either way, I dont see any point in suffering and hurting myself and those I love by clinging to this mortal coil for just a little longer....its kinda like a kid saying "awww, cant I stay up for just another 5 minutes?!"

DeV.

DapperGent

To be honest this has issue has always looked like a nobrainer to me.

If a person is terminally ill and is of sound mind the option to end their own suffering should be as basic a human right as the right to life itself.

A panel of medical experts could quickly and simply rule on the terminal nature of their illness and on whether they are mentally capable of making the decision. This one then give a person the ability to die with dignity surrounded by the people they love and in a venue *ahem* of their own choosing.

Having seen it myself I know that effectively some pain limiting drugs for cancer already do this though it's not too widely acknowledged.

azezil

Originally posted by Paddy20
Should mature individuals have the "Right to choose" between whether or not they should continue to live or die. Thereby, making the introduction of an "opt-out" tablet legally available?..

Yes absolutely, what's the point in forceing people to live, if someones depressed or mentally ill they can't offer anything to society to let them move on, make room for someone more worthy.

chill

Originally posted by Paddy20 The right to choose, when you die. Is currently illegal in Ireland.

<aside> I understood suicide is no longer illegal here. Assisted suicide is illegal, but not if you do it yourself. <aside>

Paddy20

chill,

Sorry but, I consider your post as - off-topic*- in relation to the very specefic title/question posed my Thread!.

P.

oscarBravo

Originally posted by azezil
Yes absolutely, what's the point in forceing people to live, if someones depressed or mentally ill they can't offer anything to society to let them move on, make room for someone more worthy.

I find it offensive that you implicitly associate "depressed" and "mentally ill" with "unworthy." Depression and many mental illnesses are entirely treatable, and facilitating suicide among those suffering with depression is opening a floodgate. For an accessible insight into depression, read Gareth O'Callaghan's book, A Day Called Hope.

Anyway, your post is technically off-topic: Paddy's poll specifically mentioned those who are "mentally stable," and "terminally ill."

chill

Voluntaray Euthanasia!. Should people be helped to Die ?..

Of course they should. I believe it is an inalienable human right to chose the time of one's own death. No law should remove that right from an individual. And in my opinion if that individual has poeple who are willing to help in the process then no law should prevent it.

The only remaining issue in my opinion is that of how this right can be implemented.

The two biggest causes of this right being removed from us are the Church and the Medical Profession.

The Church have behaved as they have on so many other issues. They have done everything in their considerable
power to maintain control over people's lives, which is what they do, and to keep the law on their side as they have done with contraception, abortion, private sexuality and gay marriage.

The medical profesion has been obsessed with a totally out of date and inappropriate hippocratic oath which is
honoured in the breach more than the substance.

A doctors duty should be to the health and happiness of the patient in a holistic sense. It is bizarre in my opinion for a doctor to use an ethical argument based on such an oath to fight their patient's wishes where the patient clearly and in full knowledge and mental capacity, wishes to die for reasonable and substantic reasons based on their opinion of their poor health or unbearable life.

I find the opposition arguments to this right often incredibly patronising. The argument is put that people are intrinsically better off alive irrespective fo the pain and suffering they are enduring. I have hard medical people argue that no one who wants to die can be of sound mind.

I see no merit in any of these arguments that can come close to matching the basic right that every individual should have of controlling their own lives.

chill

Originally posted by Paddy20
chill,

Sorry but, I consider your post as - off-topic*- in relation to the very specefic title/question posed my Thread!.
P.

How can it be off topic if I am simply pointing out, in a respectful and passing manner, that one of the very premises of your question is factually wrong ?

chill

Originally posted by oscarBravo
I find it offensive that you implicitly associate "depressed" and "mentally ill" with "unworthy." Depression and many mental illnesses are entirely treatable, and facilitating suicide among those suffering with depression is opening a floodgate. For an accessible insight into depression, read Gareth O'Callaghan's book, A Day Called Hope.

I would tentatively suggest that his was a flame baiting post..... at least that's how I read it
Anyway, your post is technically off-topic: Paddy's poll specifically mentioned those who are "mentally stable," and "terminally ill."

Paddy20

oscarBravo,

Thanks for expressing your feelings in relation to [azezils*] extremely distasteful, insulting and completely inappropriate post!. I was hoping someone would refer to it before me.

P.

mike65

This has always struck me - when ppl talk about being humane when a sick animal is put to sleep, but suggest the same for a terminally ill human and you're an animal!

If the person is in a fit state of mind to make an informed choice
there should be no argument if/when the time comes....

Mike.

Paddy20

chill,

What I was trying to indicate to you is simply this fact. The - Alarmingly High Suicide rate amongst all age groups in Ireland!-, really is something that belongs on another Thread imho.

Apologies, if I offended your sensitivities in any way.

P.;)

chill

Originally posted by Paddy20 chill,

What I was trying to indicate to you is simply this fact. The - Alarmingly High Suicide rate amongst all age groups in Ireland!-, really is something that belongs on another Thread imho.
Apologies, if I offended your sensitivities in any way.
P.;)

Huh ? I made no reference to the Alarmingly High Suicide rate amongst all age groups in Ireland. I simply said that suicide isn't illegal !

I don't to labour the point so if you don't see what I'm talking about feel free to drop the point

Zombrex

Originally posted by DeVore
Yes. There are certain restraints I'd like to see in place (such as the person should be mentally capable of making that decision rationally) but in general I'd say yes.

I agree. if the person is terminally ill and in pain and capable of making a rational decision to end their own life they should be allowed make that choice.

I do understand thought that a doctor, for ethical reasons, may not want to actually kill the person but I think they should set up a system that allows the person to kill themselves.

Originally posted by Paddy20
chill,

Sorry but, I consider your post as - off-topic*- in relation to the very specefic title/question posed my Thread!.
P.

I think the point chill was making is that if it is legal to commit suicide then it should be legal to commit assistated suicide. IMHO that is completely on topic.

Paddy20

chill,

Yeah, lets drop that issue. I am only human after all!, and I am not always correct in my opinions.

Thanks.

P.

azezil

My point is why should society waste money on people who do not contribute to it? If you're unwilling or unable to contribute constructively to the betterment of humanity why should time and resources be wasted on you? I would make exception in some cases if the individual had proven themselves worthy before falling ill but otherwise let them die.

DapperGent

Originally posted by azezil
My point is why should society waste money on people who do not contribute to it? If you're unwilling or unable to contribute constructively to the betterment of humanity why should time and resources be wasted on you? I would make exception in some cases if the individual had proven themselves worthy before falling ill but otherwise let them die.

Well jesus thank **** you're not in charge.

A society expends resources on those not able to contribute because thats what a society does. Would you deny access to state nursing facilities to those who have not paid a sufficient amount of tax in their lifetime?

What about disabled people? They're solely their family's problem? And it's no probs if they die if left to their devices?

Stimulus response! Stimulus response! Don't you even think?

azezil

Well if you lived by my rules then yes u would be entitled to benifits when u get old. As for disabled people, doctors can detect deformaties in the womb i believe the parent should have the right to abort then if they so wish.

Paddy20

azezil,

You obviously have some sort of hidden agenda!. Or you are simply just an "extremely sad" Sci/Fi fan/moderator, who is living in your own personal fantasy world.

How sad. Strange that I can not even get annoyed with you. You have my deepest sympathies for whatever it was that turned you in to the extreme type of inhumane individual that you so obviously are?..

God bless.

P.

DapperGent

In fairness Azezil you are sounding like a gormless spanner.

The type of society you would create with that sort of ethos would be somewhat akin to hell on earth.

You're basically saying that every person with say Down-Syndrome should have been aborted and if they weren't then society has no duty of care towards them. Or any of it's most vulnerable.

That's just...dumb.

It's kinda the sort of stupidity that would probably get you killed in your type of society. So you know, watch it.

Nevyn

Originally posted by azezil
My point is why should society waste money on people who do not contribute to it? If you're unwilling or unable to contribute constructively to the betterment of humanity why should time and resources be wasted on you? I would make exception in some cases if the individual had proven themselves worthy before falling ill but otherwise let them die.

Azezil , why not go create a thread and dicuss your new topic ? You will have great fun defining what is a construct contributing life and I am sure most people will join you there.
That is if you really want to have this trashed out in an adult fashion and you are not trolling

mike65

hmmmm under Azezil rule I would have been aborted!

Mike.

Nevyn

Once you have been but on a high level morphine drip when terminally ill it is all over.

WE dont have do not resustiate orders here and I think that is a shame,
As medical tech find new and painful ways to extend our lifes when do we call a halt?

chill

Originally posted by Wicknight I agree. if the person is terminally ill and in pain and capable of making a rational decision to end their own life they should be allowed make that choice.

I do understand thought that a doctor, for ethical reasons, may not want to actually kill the person but I think they should set up a system that allows the person to kill themselves.

I believe we have to be careful about being too prescriptive here. The principle should be imho that the person have the right to make their own choice. As a society we should only apply restictions that are 'reasonable'.

In my opinion the criteria should be that the person be terminally in pain, for example, or be permanently unable to enjoy any reasonable quality of life. [We are all terminally in in some sense of the word].
Of course it is incredibly difficult to come to an assessment of what is or is not an acceptable quality of life. But I don't think it is impossible.
The issue should be centered around quality of life as an umbrella criteria.
Pain etc would be part of that.
If a person believes that they come under one of these categories then they should have to go through a reasonable process and be allowed to die with the help of people who are willing to assist them.
Nturally there have to be safeguards against undue pressure being brought to bare, safeguards against unduly rushed decisions.
But at the heart of it shoudl be the wishes of the individual.

AngelofFire

i agree with Devore people should have the right to end their pain and suffering in special circumstances.

Im not subscribing to Azezil`s Neo Liberal theory that all people who have no "value" to society should have their lives terminated.I find that disgusting. does that mean when your old and claiming your pension you believe that you should be killed as you have nothin to input into society Azezil?

In the Netherlands patients can avail of a euthanasia passport which gives them the right to terminate their own lives if they are in extreme pain and their death is inevitable with the consent of their families if they are not in the condition to make up their minds themselves.

In a Perfect world we wouldnt need euthanasia as there would be cures for all these diseases. However i believe that in special circumstances people should be allowed to avail of it.

As for Azezil`s suggestion that people who are handicapped should be aborted. I have a step brother whos mentally handicapped we`ve gotten along since we were young and i couldnt imagine life without him. He may not have the same thing to offer society as i do but he deserves his right to life.

Events like the special olympics give handicapped people a chance to do something special. Suggesting that handicapped people should be aborted is cyncial and small minded. we need to help these people give something to offer society not terminate their lives just because we cant be bothered.

JustHalf

Originally posted by chill
Voluntaray Euthanasia!. Should people be helped to Die ?..
Of course they should. I believe it is an inalienable human right to chose the time of one's own death. No law should remove that right from an individual. And in my opinion if that individual has poeple who are willing to help in the process then no law should prevent it.

I'd disagree strongly with you based on evidence we cannot ignore. How many people have died of illness or old-age? How many people wished to live but died because their bodies, through no fault of their own, could not maintain their life?

I am certain that my paternal grandfather didn't want to die when he did, yet die he did. He was not murdered; instead, illness took him from this world. Who trod on his right to decide when he would die?

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Who trod on his right to decide when he would die?

JustHalf
Moderator

Registered: Apr 2001
Posts: 1789 (2.11 per day)
Mod: Christianity

*cough*

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

Originally posted by azezil
Well if you lived by my rules then yes u would be entitled to benifits when u get old. As for disabled people, doctors can detect deformaties in the womb i believe the parent should have the right to abort then if they so wish.

defects? .. like say.. sexual preferences?

oscarBravo

I voted 'yes' here, but I think the criteria should be very, very restrictive.

An elderly relative of ours was so sick at Christmas that we were tentatively planning the funeral (I'm not kidding). He was bed-ridden, in constant pain, doubly incontinent... you name it.

Last night he walked into the local under his own steam and had a couple of drinks.

C'est la vie, say the old folks, it goes to show you never can tell.

Wook

Originally posted by Mordeth
*cough*

indeed.....

as the song goes 'who wants to live forever?'
I always thought it was pretty bad to not allow a person to make up his own mind about death. I should have the right to end my life as i see fit. If my suffering is not cureable without the personal visit of saint mary and Christ the Jesus, then let me go.