3.5Ghz auction is go!

spongebob

http://www.comreg.ie/_fileupload/publications/ComReg0397.pdf

MDR

Are these Chorus'es old licenses ?

spongebob

Yes, the very same.

MDR

*wonders who will buy them now to sit on them*

MDR

answer my own question it doesn't look like the new owner will be let sit on them.

The applicant must commit to the launch of commercial services no later

The applicant must commit to publish full details of service areas, service
offerings and at a minimum, the applicant must commit to publishing tariff(s)
in respect of its basic residential and business services (where applicable).
Information on the tariff offerings must be all inclusive (no hidden extras)
and include, for example, installation costs and equipment rental. Where the
applicant has been licensed previously under this scheme, evidence that this
information has been published, will be required;

A commitment to enter a performance bond, up to the value of €15,000 in
respect of the conditions attached to the FWALA licence. The performance
bond may be forfeit in the event of a failure to comply with any of the FWALA
licence conditions. The value of the performance bond committed to will be
used as a comparative evaluation criterion. In the event that the licence
application is successful, the applicant must enter the performance bond as
committed to, prior to the licence being awarded. The performance bond will
be held by ComReg for the period from licence commencement until 12
months after the launch of commercial service. The performance bond must
be secured by means of a cash deposit or by means of a guarantee provided
by a reputable bank. Any performance bond held by ComReg and not
forfeited will be returned to the licensee after the appropriate period of time
stated above;

MDR

wait it gets better ... COMREG is also recommending what services should be provided ... also what the CAP's should be.

A Residential service offering commitment for the provision of a stand
alone and unbundled data service with the following characteristics: 512
kbit/s nominal downstream data rate, 128 kbit/s upstream, a maximum 48:1
contention ratio and a 4 GByte / month minimum inclusive allowance at a
maximum monthly tariff specified by the applicant;

A Business service offering commitment for the provision of a stand alone
and unbundled data service with the following characteristics: 1 Mbit/s
nominal downstream data rate, 256 kbit/s upstream, a maximum 20:1
contention ratio and an unlimited data volume, at a maximum monthly
tariff specified by the applicant.

spongebob

Chorus may apply.

They actually 'Expressed Interest' in their OWN Licences back in March/April . Words fail me !

Here is a Full list of those who expressed interest and are therefore likely to apply, there will of course be others and dropouts.

Looks like there will be a right dindong in Dublin.

Comreg have upped the price and narrowed the definition of "Area" in the past 2 weeks since the preannouncement.

M

MDR

I am vaugely suprised Eircom didn't apply for a license,
was there many t&c's in the original auction,
or where they just a response to Chorus sitting on the Licenses ?

dahamsta

Is it possible for the new licence holder to release the Comreg-defined products at unrealistic prices I wonder?

adam

MDR

allowance at a
maximum monthly tariff specified by the applicant;

It seems they have to include that information in the application ... looks like COMREG is getting very wise ....

spongebob

Originally posted by MDR
I am vaugely suprised Eircom didn't apply for a license,
was there many t&c's in the original auction,

Eircom may not apply (search for the string = existing .....in the pdf) They have the rest of the 3.5Ghz band already and are not using it.

This is the 2003 auction doc that I linked above. The 1999 auction paper trail was not published, ISTR u had to buy the docs off the ODTR in those days when specrtum was valuable.

M

oscarBravo

Originally posted by dahamsta
Is it possible for the new licence holder to release the Comreg-defined products at unrealistic prices I wonder?

I'd imagine that's the idea behind requiring the pricing to be included in the tender. Applicants with unrealistic pricing shouldn't be awarded the licenses in the first place.

Besides, it looks like ComReg have learned something from the Chorus debacle, and may be a little more careful about whom they award the licenses to.

Dustaz

Im gonna go into paddy20 mode here and admit that the mere mention of ghz ranges and fwala confuses the hell out of me.


What exactly is being auctioned here and what will it mean to the consumer if a company gets it and doesnt sit on it.


Cheers

Yours
Confused.

spongebob

Spectrum for Beginners (simplistic explanation)

Spectrum below 6Ghz GOOD
Spectrum above 6Ghz BAD

Most spectrum below 6Ghz therefore seriously LICENCED and rarely comes onto the 'market'

Some bands, eventually totalling 10% of the spectrum below 6Ghz and therefore GOOD will will be UNLICENCED by end next year , usually with limited power output which is BAD but also with collision avoidance software which is GOOD.

This 3.5Ghz band is the only LICENCED spectrum, usable primarily for Wireless BB , that has become available in four years or will do so for at least the next year or so and which is GOOD because it is below 6Ghz (actually 50Mhz outta 6Ghz is almost 1% of the GOOD spectrum)

M

MDR

eh,

bit of a thicko question but,
whats the difference between spectrum and power output.

Does something operate within a certain band of the spectrum and the power output determines the actual physical distance it travels.

Paddy20

Muck,

Yep, Now even I think I have some semblance of understanding of what previously to me was a load of gobbledegook?.

Now, I think I will take one of my "catch it early" Migraine tablets and go to bed. Before these damn floating spots before my eyes develops in to a full blown version.

Oh, Dustaz - when using paddy20 mode!, you must make sure that you get the spelling correct ?.. i.e. capital P, Paddy20

P.

spongebob

Originally posted by MDR
eh,

bit of a thicko question but,
whats the difference between spectrum and power output.

Does something operate within a certain band of the spectrum and the power output determines the actual physical distance it travels.

Spectrum is bandwith. A right of way on the airwaves if you like.

Power output is higher in CERTAIN Licenced bands . This has an effect on distance travelled and therefore coverage . In unlicenced bands, power output is invariably highly restricted eg Wi-Fi

A Wireless access point in your office can welly out 0.1W and no more. The Mount Leinster RTE transmitter may welly out 400,000W but on a different frequency so there is no collision between them.

M

dahamsta

Originally posted by MDR
Does something operate within a certain band of the spectrum and the power output determines the actual physical distance it travels.

That's a fair summary, yeah.

adam

spongebob

Once final point.

If you have a LICENCE it is an exclusive use of that spectrum in that area at that power output. Comreg will fix it (eventually) if another user of the spectrum interferes with you in your area.

If you use UNLICENCED spectrum there is a free for all element. W-Fi (802.11b used in Hotspots and Offices and by Irishwan) shares its spectrum with Cowshed Monitoring Cameras, Baby Alarms, Leaking Microwave ovends and Videosenders. Comreg will do nothing to protect any one of those users over any other. A Wireless Hotspot in a hotel has no priority whatsoever over a Cow!

M

Scruff

So if you see a cow outside your wi-fi enabled hotel with a bit of wire wrapped around its horns and what looks to be a laptop case around its neck instead of a bell, be very, very suspicious....

/switches off addled imagination

Is there any way that Comreg can force €ircom to either "use it or lose it" with the chunk of spectrum they are sitting on?
is this what happened Chorus or did their liscence just expire?

spongebob

Originally posted by Scruff

Is there any way that Comreg can force €ircom to either "use it or lose it" with the chunk of spectrum they are sitting on?
is this what happened Chorus or did their liscence just expire?

Comreg believe they have no power. Therefore they deliberately REDUCED Eircoms licence requirements rather than force them to use it or lose it (they are only supplying 20% geographic coverage and 25% population coverage) . Comreg refuse to publish maps of which 20% of the country . Page 9 of 11 of this Document Here FYI . The year one target was set for 15 June 2001 actually. Eircom will have to have 35% geographic coverage by June 2005 including 25 Counties and 70% of the population.

Eircom currently provide a limited service in 11 counties but NOBODY bar Comreg and Eircom know WHICH 11 Counties.

Chorus were supposed to be nearly nationwide by now but only had one transmitter, in Limerick. They were grossly non-compliant whereas Eircom were merely seriously non-compliant. So they lost their spectrum and Eircom kept theirs

M

Dustaz

Thanks for the explanation.


So what range does wi-fi use?

How will 3.5ghz wiress broadband differ from wi-fi?

(Sorry muck, i know i could probably google this but your so much more personal and helpful than a search engine )

spongebob

Wi-Fi 802.11b , Output 0.1W , Range ~300m and more with specialised aerial tuning c.12 Mhz available in the band ISTR (the 2.4Ghz band). In perspective a mobile phone will do 0.5-0.6w and every wireless access point and hotspot in Ireland is in the same 3.5Mhz sharing it.

Licenced 3.5Ghz , Output 1-2W or more, range 15km allowed, if it wont get to 15km because of clutter (hills say) you can boost with relays within your area . Up to 50Mhz available in the band for large urban areas.

With a licence and a higher permissible power output and a clear band you will be able to guarantee 512/128 ADSL equivalent to someone 10--15km away from the transmitter (the cell would therefore have a diameter of 20-30km) assuming the terrain was fairly flat.

Offaly (where there were expressions of interest) could be done with 3 towers for example, one around Tullamore on the huge RTE mast, one around Clara and one SE of Birr. Bits of Westmeath, Tipp, Roscommon, and Laois would also be available.

The spectrum will cost (2.8k x 3) €8.4k per annum in that example.

Thats for around 80k people. 10c per person per annum. Their ESB bill will be similar I should think.

M

quozl

Originally posted by Muck
Wi-Fi 802.11b , Output 0.1W , Range ~300m (should only be used indoors) .

you're completely within your rights to use this spectrum outdoors. IrishBroadBand, IrishWISP and IrishWAN all do. (lot's of Irish's there!)

Greg

PS I know you know this Muck, but I think others might misunderstand what your ment.

spongebob

sorry , I think thats 802.11g in the 5Ghz band instead, edited above.

lampsie

Muck,

Offaly (where there were expressions of interest) could be done with 3 towers for example, one around Tullamore on the huge RTE mast, one around Clara and one SE of Birr.

If you have a sec, could you point me in the rough direction of where I could get more info on these 'expressions of interest' in Offaly? ie Info on what was expressed by who?

Not sure where to look, ta

- lampsie

dahamsta

Ok, so they're requiring pricing information, which is a good start. Hopefully there won't be any issues with them using that information to decide who gets the licences. So the next question is: What's to stop the owner of the shiny new licence doubling the price immediately?

adam

spongebob

Originally posted by lampsie

If you have a sec, could you point me in the rough direction of where I could get more info on these 'expressions of interest' in Offaly? ie Info on what was expressed by who?

see links in my earlier posts today

maxheadroom

Originally posted by dahamsta
So the next question is: What's to stop the owner of the shiny new licence doubling the price immediately?

The words "at a maximum monthly tariff specified by the applicant" in the licence condidions, maybe?

Mailman

When will the winners be announced?

BigEejit

Originally posted by Mailman
When will the winners be announced?

And perhaps more importantly: How long after that will they have to wait before they can "switch on"?

Dangger

When will the winners be announced?

It could be the end of this week, I have been told.

spongebob

Originally posted by BigEejit
And perhaps more importantly: How long after that will they have to wait before they can "switch on"?

Christmas pressies could be possible.

The rumour I heard was that approx 35 Licence areas will be confirmed which corresponds to about 35% Geographic coverage and 65% population coverage ........ a rumour mind!

Once the licences are awarded anybody can apply for the other 65% of the state, in chunks of about 1% Geographic coverage at a time. Comreg awards the licence for a super cell they call an area, 700Km2 in an area 70,000 Km2 in the state.

MSE decision due about the end of the week as well, interesting times.

Applications for 3.5Ghz spectrum will be processed as they arrive.

M

BigEejit

Originally posted by Muck
Christmas pressies could be possible.

w00t .... finally the possibility of some half decent competition ... hope they keep the cost of customer premises equipment down and the bandwidth caps up!!....

Fallschirmjager

can i add a big Q,

is their a catch? Is it good for games? is it better then the landline or does it matter?



thanks

ps anyone know if Wicklow is in the pipe since i will puke blood if i check the eircom website and still see the same 3 exchanges converted...

spongebob

Originally posted by Fallschirmjager
can i add a big Q,
is their a catch? Is it good for games? is it better then the landline or does it matter?

Properly configured wireless is as good as DSL any day (by Irish standards where we get 512k or 1024k DSL )

M

LFCFan

any word?

Fallschirmjager

excellent Muck, thanks for the help. good news for me as blessington wont get wired dsl for about 2 yrs apparently....