Where to shop for digital Pianos In ireland :/?

-ADREN-

Thats really it.. i cant seem to find anywhere and if /when I do they only have the chepish ones.. with low specs.. ie No weighted Keys.. and 16 track Recording etc..

Im looking for a Roland, rolands site isnt even that help full.. but i was in france for 2 months.. and was playing on a roland somthing or other.. and it was very very nice.. No idea of the modle or anyhting but it was supposed to be a 2 year old model.. Meaning that there must be something like it around forsay 2 Grand?

Regards,
-Coz

Gaz

Downstairs in Waltons have a small collection , maybe 6 or 7 , there Yamaha and Rolands , i think.

Price is about 2500 - 3500.

Get a real one ! Much better , unless you need an digital for portability etc.

-ADREN-

yup portability and for the arranger on the thing.. there great.. 16 track recording.. +the tones. Have a nice Piano all ready.. saving real hard to get one of these.. im looking for a Roland kr-5 .. damn expensive.. Thanks for that anyways m8. Ill check it out, I take it ure talking about dublin? Im in limerick here and its utter crap.. no where to be seen these digital pianos.

_CreeD_

You know for that kind of money you could get a decent laptop and equip it with a midi controller, sequencer and a good piano library instead. May sound more awkward but you've near infinite options for expansion afterwards (and improvent on the Piano sound itself with newer synths/libraries or adding your own fx.). Just a thought.

aphex™

Theres 2 music shops on wicklow street in Dublin. One sells guitars and is called Perfect Pitch, and the one i cant remember the name of is just a few doors down from it.

Anyway, upstairs are LOADS of keyboards. Theyre all really expensive, as keyboards/pianos generally are. And whats great is, the people (upstairs only) dont seem to be complete pretentious W*nkers like you find in all the other music shops.

-ADREN-

Creed m8 i like what ure saying could u go into some more detail?? But dont sequencers feel more like keyboard than a piano? I'm looking for a nice Feel also.. piano like.. are there such sequencers like this? But please go on I like ure idea.

Regards,
-Coz.

_CreeD_

What you need is a controller with 88 weighted keys, they cost a good bit more the synthy-type but are meant to feel like a normal piano. I'm not an expert on them but Studiologic are a well respected brand with a number of weighted and semi-weighted models (eg. Their Semi Weighted TKN-88 is $300 but their flagship SL-2001 would set you back $1100). Now this is a controller keyboard only, it has no onboard sounds or a built in sequencer.
The rest really depends on what you want, the power of the laptop and the type of sequencing software you use really depends on what you want.
I'll presume it's just to play piano for the moment:
A 1Ghz or so Laptop with at least 256mb of ram would do, you won't need too much CPU horsepower as all the best Piano sounds are Sample based and don't require much calculation work (though you may want to add some Reverb etc. over it so extra CPU power won't hurt), ram and decent Hard Drive speed is of more importance in this case. The Laptops onboard sound will be 'okay' but I really advise getting a higher quality external audio interface - USB 1 is okay for 44.1/16bit but there are finally some USB 2 interfaces starting to appear which should be a lot better. It's not just about audio quality, Latency is a big factor - it's the time between hitting the key and hearing a sound from the system. Acceptable latency varies from person to person, reasonable to me is under 40ms and is achievable by USB1, 10ms or so is near perfect (And what I like to use) but would take tweaking, chances are the onboard would be closer to 80/90ms where you will hear a pause.
For software there are a number of choices. GigaSampler and Gigastudio are pretty much the best samplers out there, not so much for cutting edge features but for raw performance and the choice of quality sample libraries. However under Win2k or XP you need a card with specially written GSIF drivers, and the onboard souncard of a Laptop won't have them. It can run with normal DirectX (MME or WMD) under Windows 95 or 98 though. The program isn't cheap and neither are the libraries but it does offer the best quality and more importantly it is a standalone app. in that you don't need a sequencer to play it. Other simpler and cheaper options are Halion, Kontakt or Sampletank based piano libraries, these need to be run inside some sort of Host sequencer though. A very good and cost effective library is Sonic Reality's Piano Erom (Sampletank Based, but it includes Sampletank LE so you don't need to buy Sampletank full to play it), it's about $70 or so.
If you don't use Gigastudio, or just want the extra power of a sequencer, then some good choices are Muzys (free with Computer Music Magazine, should be able to do all you want for Piano work), Orion Pro and Sonar (in order of price, then quality).

Basically if it was me and all I wanted was piano work I'd get a 1-1.5Ghz laptop with 256-512mb of ram, a good USB2 audio interface, the Studiologic TMK-88 and either Sonic Reality's Piano Erom running in Muzys or just GigaSampler with a decent Piano Library if the budget allowed.

-ADREN-

Hey thanks creed, just wondering would this mean I would have to have my lap top where ever my 'Controller' was ?

And also is it not a lot of bother, getting each of those things and setting them up etc.

What advantages does it have over a digital piano?

_CreeD_

Yup you'd need both devices. It may seem awkward but combined they'd be about the same weight as a full synth.
Setting it up is actually pretty easy.
Eg. Say you get the above kit with Windows98 (to use Giga), Connect the controller, load the driver, install Giga - reboot, Copy on whatever library you want to use, open Giga, choose the library and play.
It'll get more complex if you want to sequence more tracks but software sequencers are much easier to control than most hardware variants.

The advantages are expandability and versatility. If you want it for more than just piano, say you want a quiet backing string or pad, then you just load one on. Also you can simulate a number of different sounds using software processors (like more reverb for poignant solos etc.). Don't like that particular piano sound? Just get a library that is from a different model. If you want to play over an existing song then you simply get hold of a midi file of the original, remove the piano parts (easy in most software), play it back and play yourself over the top.
There are actually quite a lot of one-man-bands using this type of setup these days (see them a lot on the Sonar forums).

-ADREN-

Thanks loads creed m8.. just a few more questions

Quality wise how does it way out in comparison to a digital piano? also how does it make sound ? Do i need to get an amp?

Also do you have any links to the manufacturer of these Controllers?

Thanks again
-Coz.

_CreeD_

The quality really comes down to the Audio Interface and the sample library (Bear in mind GigaStudio is used by many Pro composers (eg. Hanz Zimmer has something like 10 Pc's running it)).

Probably the biggest selection is at www.musiciansfriend.com , not that they ship to Ireland but it's a good place to browse and then look locally after you find something useful.
For audio interfaces I recommend http://www.m-audio.com/products/m-audio/audiophileusb.php (USB1 though). M-audio make some of the most popular pro cards out there (their Delta series) and each of their interfaces uses the same DAC/ADCs so you get the same sound quality from each (the different models just have differen IO and packaging).
Studiologic's homepage http://studiologic.net/fatar-menu.htm

Playback will be the same as from any PC, you can link the line outs to an amp/speaker system or use the Headphone socket for personal listening.

-ADREN-

Creed m8 I was searching the musiciansfriends site there for some Studio Logic controllers.. how come they come with sounds on them.. is this just to start off with if you didnt have a software package? Meaning will I still be able to get loads of other sounds, or am I just bound to the ones that it ses it come with.. One I was intrested in was Studio Logic sl - 880 Pro Also must I find a compatible Laptop.. or does any laptop do? As in is there a special port I must get on my Laptop to have my Controller interact with the laptop?

_CreeD_

Hmmm, the 880 has no sounds though, it's just a controller? That's what you need really as the sounds are superfluous since you'll be using those you load into the laptop instead.
Any laptop will do, but since this isn't USB (those keyboards that are USB enabled have their own interfaces built in) you'll need a midi interface (and a USB one is the easiest) they're pretty simple devices so just about any should do. However it mentions it has parallel midi outputs which I hadn't heard of before, I think they're just the standard ones but I'm not sure. The handy thing with the USB audio interface I linked above (the Audiophile USB) is that it has an onboard Midi interface so as long as the 880's 'Parallel-Midi' doesn't get in the way (which thinking about it shouldn't be the case since they are all built for compatibility) having the Laptop, AudioPhile and 880 would be all the hardware you'd need.

As for the integrated sounds on a keyboard (if you end up going that route) some can be updated but to nowhere near the degree you can with using soft-synths or sample libraries on the PC/MAC.

-ADREN-

Err im not to sure what you mean by it doesnt have a USB thingy.. Do you know of one of those controllers with a good piano feel to its (like with weighted keys, hammer action) that has this USB thingy ? For around the €500 mark.. Im actually all very confused with all this hard ware Your saying if I got the 880 witha USB thing and a laptop that should be fin..but i though u said the 880 didnt have a usb connection Also is that audio usb thing a 'sound card' yea?

Giblet

The latency only comes into account when monitoring the sound, which is not needed most times, especially when recording effects built into the keyboard, because it records at 0ms latency.

It might be annoying for guitar, if you want to record an effect using a program like Cubase. The effect will be delayed because you will have to monitor the sound to hear what the effect is like.

You can record clean with no monitoring and apply the effect later with some effect types.

_CreeD_

For any Midi compatible device to talk to another you need a Midi out on one and a Midi in on the other. In this case Midi out on your Keyboard to Midi in on the Laptop. Since your laptop doesn't normally have a Midi interface of it's own you need to add one. Newer midi controllers that use USB get around the need for an external controller by effectively having it built into themselves, so the interface you'd normally have hanging off your Laptop is inside the Keyboard box - it seems like one unit but it's really the 2 devices combined. When you connect it to the Laptop what you see is just a keyboard and PC, what the system sees is Laptop - Midi Interface - Keyboard. Sorry if I over complicated it it's just that the Midi interface is moved inside the Keyboard Box with a USB model so you don't have to buy a separate one. With the 880, as it doesn't have USB and therefore a Midi interface built in, you need to get one separately to attach to your Laptop.
My own setup is PC - USB Edirol (roland) Midi interface - Keyboard, a Midi cable connects the Midiout from the Keyboard to the Midi in of the Edirol Interface, it then transmits the signal back via USB to the PC.

Giblet's right about Latency in that it's only perceived on live playback (but not knowing what you want this for really I presumed that's part of it, also as we're talking about using the sounds on the laptop only monitoring is always needed). Like I said different people have different tolerances when they're playing, 80/90ms mightn't bother one person but I can't play like that, it bugs the hell out of me. Most sequencers include a render or bounce function that mix your tracks to audio purely mathematically, in that for this function your soundcard isn't used (it's not re-recorded from Analog to Digital, just mixed purely logically inside the software) this way latency (and any unwanted noise from conversions) is avoided. So basically while your final track shouldn't suffer from any latency effects your experience while laying it down might.

Giblet

Any latency bothers me!

I get what your saying, and yes I suppose you would need monitoring.

You could also reduce the amount of aduio buffers, that could get you close to 14ms just using a line in, but the sound quality is reduced.

-ADREN-

lads my head hurts after ye 2..


Listen can you give me a good set up for about €800 (not including a laptop) Like everything i need for under €800 just not the laptop.. And could it be possible when ure picking out a Controller that it is very similar to the feel of a real piano.. This would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
-Coz.

robbie1876

You can pick up a Roland KR-5 on Music Store Professional for €3790 including shipping to your door. That is as cheap as you will get it. Expect to pay well over €4000 from a shop in Ireland.

If you go down the laptop piano route, the best feeling controller I have played is the Yamaha KX88. It is a midi controller with fully weighted keys and just plays beautifully. You can pick them up from about €500 upwards. Try and get one thats at least 10-15 years old as the action takes that long to reach its prime! (IMO)

Personally, the laptop thing is way too fiddly and you are just asking for trouble in terms of reliability. There is no way I'd bring a laptop to a gig. Best way to go is either pick up a hardware sampler (like an akai) and a piano sample CD (you can pretty much get any piano you like - Steinway, Kawai etc), or to get yourself a proper sound module. I'm currently using a Yamaha Motif Rack (€1100 from Music Store) and the piano sounds are killer. They are far more musically responsive than I have come across on sample CDs / laptop setups. Not to mention killer Rhodes / Hammond sounds. Check it out!