forensics

kaalgat

I'm not familiar with the ways in which a person can be identified here in Ireland.

I've never heard of anyone's fingerprints being taken.

If there is no fingerprint database that exists, what kind of job does a forensic scientist have in this country? How could a person be identified as having been present at a crime scene, if there is no prints database to go back to for a possible match?

So how do the people get caught?

Victor

Only people who have been arrested / convisted have their fingerprints taken.

Most people who are convicted of murder are related to the victim. Most people convicted of manslaughter did so in public.

Given the cost of taking fingerprints and other forensic infomation and maintaining a database, they are only used in serious cases.

kaalgat

thanks. That was useful

One other question though. What if this was someone new who decided to become a serial rapist or something, and this was his first. If they don't have fingerprints for this person, how does he get caugtht, if say, used a condom, and left no DNA?

GuanYin

Ya have quite the wrong impression of forensics.
Its not just about crimes scenes and dead bodies.

Forensic science draws its principles and methods from all the traditional fields of science e.g. Physics, Chemistry & Biology. The only real difference between it and traditional analytical science is that forensics is science as it pertains to the law.

Examples of forensic jurisdiction would be:

Drug Analysis - identification of illegal drugs.

Toxicology - effects of unknown/known substances on a biological system (ie. a drug on a person)

Trace Analysis - looking at fragments left from unknown sources.

Serology and DNA testing would be the areas you are more familiar with.

As for your question on identification, the ethos forensics comes from a french criminologist names Edmond Locard who said "Every Contact Leaves a Trace".

If you had been the person you mentioned you would have hair samples, cloting fibres, skin flakes all over the person and the surrounding area. From those DNA can easily be obtained which could be used to tighten and match the suspects. Clothing fibres would also be very strong evidence in convicting someone.

Make no mistake, forensics is far more powerful than most people realise.

If you want to have alook at it in more detail, this file is a short review.

Victor

Originally posted by kaalgat
What if this was someone new who decided to become a serial rapist or something,

Unfortunately serial rapists usually don't get caught the first time. Most criminals tend to have habits - modus operandi. Often in the case of serial criminals (essentially committing hte same or similar crime on different targets) is is the modus operandi that indentifies it as one person / group and the small variations (e.g. all in one location / time patterns / "mistakes" / etc.) that help find them.

Victor

http://home.eircom.net/content/unison/national/1173400?view=Eircomnet

Bill set to pave way for DNA bank
From:The Irish Independent
Monday, 11th August, 2003
Kathy Donaghy

A DNA database could be established as early as next year.

This follows the publication of new legislation which looks set to pave the way for the move.

Justice Minister Michael McDowell is anxious to set up as comprehensive a national DNA databank as possible, having regard to constitutional and human rights issues. The Irish Independent has learned that Attorney General Rory Brady has recently written to the Law Reform Commission asking the body to consider as a matter of urgent public interest the setting up of such a database.

DNA evidence is a powerful tool in helping solve crimes, and experts claim that as many as . Britain has compiled a huge database of fingerprints and DNA samples. Here samples are destroyed six months after the investigation ends.

The retention of DNA samples played a major role in solving the decades-old murder of Kildare woman, Phyllis Murphy.

Retired army sergeant John Crerar was found guilty of her murder last year nearly 20 years after the crime was committed.

Now legislation setting up the long-awaited DNA database for the Garda force will be included by the minister in his new Garda Powers Bill, which will be published in the autumn. A spokeswoman for the Department of Justice said it was important to note that the Criminal Justice (Forensic Evidence) Act, 1990 already provides for the taking of forensic samples from persons in custody, of the kind which may be used in DNA profiling. She added that the absence of a formalised national DNA database did not preclude the gardai from from availing of DNA profiling during criminal investigations.

"The technique, as performed by the Forensic Science Laboratory, has already proven its worth by assisting in detection in more than 500 offences." She continued the minister was convinced that there remained considerable untapped potential within the justice system for DNA profiling techniques and said that he was initiating measures to realise this potential. The proposed new Criminal Justice Bill provides for the taking, without consent, of a mouth swab from a detainee held in connection with a serious offence - from the recommendation of the Expert Group on Criminal Law.

This was appointed to consider recent changes to the criminal law as recommended in the recent SMI Report into the working of the gardai, that saliva should be reclassified as a non-intimate sample, as an aid to DNA analysis.