No Renewable Energy Grants in Ireland

The Saint

I was surprised to find, as I was searching the vast expanses of the internet, to find out that in Ireland there are no government grants on renewable energy products, such as solar panels and wind turbines, as there are in the UK and on much of continental Europe. This to me is a shame considering our lack of ability to curb CO2 emmisions as required under Kyoto and in fact we are increasing our emmisions. Why have the government not put forward help for people and companies who wish to persue eco-friendly power generation when it is the government that will incur fines if the situation does not improve? I would have thought that the government would provide grants and let it be known that these grants are in place so that the maximum amount of people would employ such eco-friendly methods of electricity generation. I have already written to the minister for the environment, Martin Cullin, to put these questions to him. The e-mail address is below if anyone wishes to express their discontent in the governments lack of action on renewable energy and the environment.

minister@environ.irlgov.ie

Please send him a quick mail to express your disappointment on the lack of government grants which afterall benifits everyone.

Capt'n Midnight

about how much the fine for koyoto will probably be...

Victor

But you will be saving on your fuel bill anyway? Why should you get a subsidy? This sounds like a much smaller version of the Irish Wind Farm Association asking for tax write offs to be allowed against all income. :rolleyes:

Dr_MalPractice

The Saint wrote:

it is the government that will incur fines if the situation does not improve?

Do you really think govt pay for anything? WE PAY FOR EVERYTHING. it's called TAX!

from a couple of different sources, it's possible be completely energy self sufficient,(depending on where you live). i'm planning on renovating an old farmhouse (not a listed building). for a wind turbine, 2 PV solar panels, and all the neccessary inverters, controllers etc, it's gonna set me back EUR9,900. i'm budgeting up to eur3,500 for a geothermal underfloor heating system. at that, i'll never be paying fuel bill again.:)

Stephmurph

Dr_MalPractice wrote:

Do you really think govt pay for anything? WE PAY FOR EVERYTHING. it's called TAX!

from a couple of different sources, it's possible be completely energy self sufficient,(depending on where you live). i'm planning on renovating an old farmhouse (not a listed building). for a wind turbine, 2 PV solar panels, and all the neccessary inverters, controllers etc, it's gonna set me back EUR9,900. i'm budgeting up to eur3,500 for a geothermal underfloor heating system. at that, i'll never be paying fuel bill again.:)

Planning to do the same myself Mal. A little further down the line though - lots of research and saving to be done yet. Wanna renovate a really small old stone ruin but may have to add on an extra cob room. Pity we cant connect private wind turbines to the national grid....that way you could sell excess energy produced back to the ESB. Now that would be sweet :rolleyes:

NeilJ

Victor wrote:

But you will be saving on your fuel bill anyway? Why should you get a subsidy? This sounds like a much smaller version of the Irish Wind Farm Association asking for tax write offs to be allowed against all income. :rolleyes:

Yes but it still cost several thousand euro to set up these things in your house. I think the average wind turbine takes about 10 years to pay for itself. So a little bit of money, prehaps means tested, would definitly encourage people to change their heating and electricity supply.

Neil

CJhaughey

I am not surprised one bit.
This Govt has only one interest in mind: to line its own pockets and the pockets of the big corporate entities that support it.
If the government was really serious about the Kyoto protocol it would have developed more efficient standards for housing and implemented them, instead you havethis kind of thing happening.
Passive housing is widely available now and is a proven technology in many new housing developments in Scandinavia and Germany.
Adopting measures to force developers(governmental paymasters) to build houses that need little or no inputs would be a start. :rolleyes:
I cannot see the ESB allowing the govt to finance measures which would reduce its monopoly on the irish energy market , look at the eircom situation which is far less important, where eircom has just stifled any sort of meaningful competition.
After all I have written do you think that this corrupt bunch of self serving and witless politicians will put the interests of the common man above that of greedy corporates profits?
I would love to see it , but I fear that the only way is to jump first and factor a green energy system like this thread details.

xonencentral

This is what a girl in the know has told me and from the checking I have done, its all stacking up.

Her assertion is (and she should know in her position), that the new ENERGY PERFORMANCE OF BUILDINGS DIRECTIVE (next Jan 1st comes into force) will place an energy label on your house/property and it will be a kw rating; this KW rating will equate to an exact amount of Co2 emmisions. In 2011 when the EU directive linked with Kyoto comes in to force will see Ireland fined every year until we meet our Kyoto objectives; We are supposed to drop our emmissions, 34 % I think and we have increased by 13%. (this seems to be a nightmare situation)

As the ESB produces 2/3 of our emmisions, the government were going to fund these fines with the exchequer BUT appartenly legal advice tells them that as the other 1/3 is produced by CRH (a private cement monopoly), that the EU would fine them even more for STATE AID of a private company. Her info is that the only way the fines can be funded is to apply them directly using the "polluter pays principal" so expect a tax on cement and on electricity directly.

We have until 2011 before the fines kick in so your ESB bill could become your ball and chain if you haven't prepared by then. I don't intend to be an ESB customer in 2011.

My latest feedback on grants is that there won't be any at any stage, not even a vat reduction like the uk, as already said above, grants come from the exchequer, taxes fund the exchequer, we pay taxes, we PAY aT THE END OF THE DAY, grants are only a smokescreen.

P.S. Martin Cullen isn't the minister for the environment, Roache is, both a waste of space but renewables aparently falls between 2 different ministers, so there is no actual minister responsible, I think this was done on purpose by FF. (Pass the buck politics)

Please note that if you also get water from the council, you will attract the councils Co2 rating for producing, filtering, pumping this to your house onto your energy label and also if you send all your rubbish to the dump and don't recycle then you will atract the Co2 emmissions for all of this onto your energy label for the bulldozers, electricity used, trucks used, etc. So it nots just electricity, you should be rain harvesting, recycling as well. There are stories that between electricity/water carbon taxes, it could add up to 5000 euros to an average Irish house in carbon taxes in 2011. We should all take this seriously. Our houses are the worst in the EU for energy use. Don't wait until its too late, the energy auditor will want to look at all your utility bills for the previous 12 to 24 months to give an energy label and this means that if you wish to sell/rent your house from next Jan, you need at least a years history of being a very good citizen to get a good energy label to get the most money for your house.

Takeshi_Kovacs

why not build your own wind turbine (or get a handy friend to do so)
i definitely will when i get the time, and some *cheap* indutrial forklift batteries..
http://www.otherpower.com/17page1.html is a fairly hefty turbine, 2 or 3 of these up the back field, and the esb can kiss my arse!!

xonencentral

Don't worry, I have been looking at building my own turbine for years but I ended up buying and installing Surface Powers wind turbine because it was cheaper than buying the parts for a DIY build and it was planning exempt.

Haven't looked back since.

P.S. Apparently with the UK grants, you only get the grant if you pay for an approved installation, I got a quote of £3000 plus VAT from a micro turbine dealer in the UK. (said I was local).

Dr_MalPractice

Takeshi_Kovacs wrote:

why not build your own wind turbine (or get a handy friend to do so)
i definitely will when i get the time, and some *cheap* indutrial forklift batteries..
http://www.otherpower.com/17page1.html is a fairly hefty turbine, 2 or 3 of these up the back field, and the esb can kiss my arse!!

planning permission for 1 might be a problem, if you've got shortsighted neighbours, (and i don't mean they need glasses).

CJhaughey

Not if the blade diameter is less than 1.5m I think.
also if it is silent or near silent than things are less noticeable.

Dr_MalPractice

CJhaughey wrote:

Not if the blade diameter is less than 1.5m I think.
also if it is silent or near silent than things are less noticeable.

um, the heading on that page was... Large 17' Homebrew Wind Turbine...
17' :eek: ya might want to consider scaling it down a little bit.

yop

I have sent the emails to Roche and Co already with no joy but a bag of annoyance, have a search on boards for the responses I got!

I do remember that IF you are building X amount, I cannot remember exactly, say 8 houses min, and are installing an alternative heat source that u will get a grant of 3k per house, in other words if u are a builder who can afford to build 8 houses then our government will give u extra money, even though u are already ripping the buyer off by getting a builders rate in building suppliers and the VAT back.

Stuff the ordinary Joe Soap

CJhaughey

Yep quite agree Yop.
I started our house today, Fúck that bunch of retards in the dail I will just do it myself, although a nice handy grant for a solar panel would go down well.
talking to people in the Solar field it seems as though the solar energy umbrella group is it's own worst enemy with a lot of vested interests pulling it every which way but forward.
Hey did anyone even know that there was a solar energy association in Ireland?

rooferPete

Looking at Yop's post a horrible thought came to me since the number of houses is eight to qualify for the grants I wonder if it would be possible for eight like minded people who intend building their own home to get together and form a ltd company.

They could then register for vat and reclaim all their vat outlay and get the grant because it would be paid to one developer ie the company, since each house would be sold to the purchaser (company director) at cost their would be no value added tax.

While it would require a good accountant to remain within the "white line" of company law there could be benefits from using the "grey areas" of company law and grant approval.

Wicked I know

D'Peoples Voice

The Saint wrote:

I was surprised to find, as I was searching the vast expanses of the internet, to find out that in Ireland there are no government grants on renewable energy products, such as solar panels and wind turbines, as there are in the UK and on much of continental Europe.
I would have thought that the government would provide grants and let it be known that these grants are in place so that the maximum amount of people would employ such eco-friendly methods of electricity generation.

I'd imagine the government were advised that while it would be economically and environmentally logically, it would be damaging politically.
While not wishing to digress, Mcgreevy gave increased tax bands for 2 income households over one income households to pay for creche fees, the net effect, more women in the workforce, hence economically logically, but the government were criticised as favouring the rich, that is, politically damaging.

Now you want them to introduce tax relief for people to reduce their future energy bills. You can just imagine the typical profile of people who would do this, people in the middle to upper classes who understand the long-term payoffs. Would there be allegations of the government widening the poverty gap, you bet your ass there would be.
Hence the government will have to continue their current policy if they wish to have any hope of ever getting re-elected.
I wouldn't mind them committing political suicide over this, but thats why they pay for political advisers, so that they don't fall into these pitfalls more than they have to. Sad, but thats Ireland

xonencentral

Massive;

Somebody actually thinks that those bunch of assholes could possibly get re-elected

I'm moving to France if they do, I just can't afford to be Irish anymore. :eek:

ianmc38

What about "airtricity" that are part of the national toll roads group? They're renewable energy, as they use wind farms...

yop

Know how you feel Xeno, we are totally powerless in this situation from what I can see

CJhaughey

No-one is powerless as long as they have a vote.

D'Peoples Voice

CJhaughey wrote:

No-one is powerless as long as they have a vote.

Thats true! thats what President Mugabe told the UN about recent elections in his country.

I think it comes down to who is not afraid to make significant reforms!
On that count, I see absolutely no party being electable (if such a word even exists )

CJhaughey

LOL very true however one suspects at the risk of crossing into the political forum that mugabes ballot has only a few names on it and most of them start with Robert.
But seing as this is a Green forum and as long as the govt in the present form are doing absolutely nothing about fostering or supporting sustainable living, then I feel compelled to vote for a party that could be part of a coalition that may at least pay attention to the principle of sustainable development, rather than it's diametric opposite.

CJhaughey

bump
Problems over the water too, with the usual complaints as mentioned before.link

Mercy Katharine

Dr_MalPractice wrote:

Do you really think govt pay for anything? WE PAY FOR EVERYTHING. it's called TAX!

exactly , when are we going to realise that we the people are the ones who always end up footing the bill .

there are no grants available to the private sector - because - why should they pay money to the private sector when government bodies are doing such a great job in recovery , recycling , efforts in reducing our environment impact and cost to the people , sure in our governments eyes we live in the perfect country , all the residents here love it , hell we even have the highest number of incoming immigrants in europe .
until the environment is put before industry and our governments personal connections - the fines will continue and grow .