gay blood donors

johnjay

What do we all think about the Irish Blood Transfusion Service banning Gay men from donating blood? Personally I think it’s prejudicial of them, branding us all as diseased. Personally, I know where I have “been”. I’m a hell of a lot more choosey about who I share a bed with than some of my straight friends!

The gay ban was introduced worldwide in the 80’s when HIV was spreading rapidly in the gay community, but now it’s spreading more rapidly in heterosexuals than gays.

I say get rid of the ban. Trust us gays!! :mad:

Axon

I disagree. Trust nobody!!. Treat all blood like its HIV +/Hep ABC pos etc. Right now there are many changes occuring in the profile of our society. Given the extent of the continent-wide fiasco which is the AIDS epidemic in Africa, and the number of africans that are moving to our country, it would be prudent using existing short sighted logic to ban all africans from donating blood. Given that in this day and age it is unacceptable to discriminate on the grounds of race etc... the only logical and medically prudent position to take is that all blood is tainted until it is deemed clear through the mechanisation and commoditisation of existing tests for various pathogens.

In short the crude selection procedure now in use will prove to be totally ineffective in a very short time, and therefore will become a historical anachronism.

As someone who regularly gave blood until they introduced this crude though cheap screening policy, I look forward to once again being joined by the REST of the great unwashed.

John Player

just out of curiosity does this ban deter anyone from giving blood, it dont stop me, im totally against the ban but i stlll give blood cos the good defeats the bad. & free sambos and sweets after it - its also a good way to waste an hour instead of going to a lecture.

GuanYin

The general rule in labs is to treat all biological samples as if the were infectous.

To be fair, I think there is no way they can stop "gay men" from donating blood as I have never seen anything asking sexual orientation in blood donations (although I tend to have people pop into the lab and ask rather than going to blood drives).

All blood is now screened anyway, so there isn't much of an issue.

johnjay

Originally posted by sykeirl
I have never seen anything asking sexual orientation in blood donations

This is directly from the IBTS website, its the first point on their list:


Never give blood if:

You are a male who has had sex with another male

And their paperwork goes even further into detail, it even tells us not to give blood if "even oral sex"

johnjay

Originally posted by John Player
just out of curiosity does this ban deter anyone from giving blood,

I gave blood recently, JP, but it has me on a serious guilt trip since. I dont think I would have given it, but they phoned me and asked me to attend as I was a match.

I know I am 110% "clean", but at the same time it just naggs me.

yellum

Maybe they should ask people who get blood transfusions: "Would you take a blood transfusion from a gay man that has had protected anal sex ? "

If they say no then let them die. Simple choice.

johnjay

Originally posted by yellum
Maybe they should ask people who get blood transfusions: "Would you take a blood transfusion from a gay man that has had protected anal sex ? "

If they say no then let them die. Simple choice.

Maybe they should give them a choice of blood from a gay man, or from a straight man who had a quickie with some slapper he never met before?

HerrLipp

As far as I know they've major problems with their screening process as hiv takes about 12 months to incubate, whereas they can only store the blood for a few weeks before giving it to someone.

PS: as regards gay blood vs slapper blood, I'm sure the great unwashed would prefer their blood was infected with hiv rather than ghey

aloyisious

Update on US situation: The American Medical Association voted Tuesday to oppose the Food and Drug Administration’s 30-year ban on gay men donating blood.

Full story here: http://www.queerty.com/american-medical-association-votes-to-reject-federal-ban-on-gay-men-donating-blood-20130621/#ixzz2Wvq6Ej7l

wonderfulname

Jasus, where did you pull this thread out of?

Seriously though, that's great news to hear.

aloyisious

@wonderfulname: Some of the Mods tend to get upset when the poster doesn't use the system to dig out the correct thread to post in. so I went digging first this time :-)

elfy4eva

I don't quite understand the ban. I mean anyone could have HIV why single out gays? Is the ban statistically based or something? Or just a remnant from the prejudiced era?

aloyisious

elfy4eva wrote: »

I don't quite understand the ban. I mean anyone could have HIV why single out gays? Is the ban statistically based or something? Or just a remnant from the prejudiced era?

The thought pattern was that Gay men are promiscuous. were liable at the drop of a hat to have sex with another man (or men) and not give a damn about the STD risks. There was the "bath-house" issue raised in relation to the AIDS epidemic in the US. The last sentence in your post probably still applies, it's hard to shake a prejudice, especially one born of actual and factual evidence.

Emzer92

Fair play to aloyisious!! Resurrection of a ten-year-old thread takes dedication!

I used to give blood, and I was proud and glad to do it! However, after I came out I stopped because (magically) I wasn't eligible for donation any more. I'm O+, which is the most common blood type in Ireland, but I still get letters and texts from the IBTS begging me for blood that they won't take off me if I did donate!!

I can't help but get annoyed and upset when I hear their ads on the radio or on the telly telling me that I can "be a hero" by donating my blood, because I can't! They won't take my blood over something as banal as who I sleep with!

I'm sorely tempted to write to them asking them to either remove me from their mailing/text lists or accept my blood for donation. As it stands, blood donations are only "good" for about six weeks in cold storage, but they don't have to give mine to anyone! They can dispose of it right after I leave the clinic, just take it!!

Dingle_berry

aloyisious wrote: »

The thought pattern was that Gay men are promiscuous. were liable at the drop of a hat to have sex with another man (or men) and not give a damn about the STD risks. There was the "bath-house" issue raised in relation to the AIDS epidemic in the US. The last sentence in your post probably still applies, it's hard to shake a prejudice, especially one born of actual and factual evidence.

aloyisious wrote: »

The thought pattern was that Gay men are promiscuous. were liable at the drop of a hat to have sex with another man (or men) and not give a damn about the STD risks. There was the "bath-house" issue raised in relation to the AIDS epidemic in the US. The last sentence in your post probably still applies, it's hard to shake a prejudice, especially one born of actual and factual evidence.

It was based on the observation that AIDS seemed to selectively affect men who have sex with men when it first came to the attention of western health authorities. AIDS was first called GRID (Gay Related Immune Defficiency). Gay men were good blood donors and it was shown that It was possible to spread HIV through blood products. So, when they didn't know how to detect the disease, never mind what was causing it, they banned one of the largest groups of donors affected by it.
Yes tests have advanced since then and now that we know more about HIV it can be detected at very low levels. But no test is perfect so some false negatives (as well as false positives) occur.
You can play around with statistics a lot. Like the one that says single heterosexual women accounted for more new HIV infections than gay men. But if you removed sub-Saharan refugees from the single heterosexual women group gay men accounted for more. I don't have the figures to hand but gay men have always had a higher infection rate of syphilis (which makes it easier to catch other diseases including HIV). Recently the number of new HIV infections has started to increase, especially in the gay community.
So when you look at the statistics gay men still account for a portion of HIV and other infections that can be spread through blood products. The risks of spreading/catching these diseases can be greatly reduced by practising safe sex. Yet they are on the increase.....
Claiming prejudice and homophobia when the numbers point the finger at us only serves to make us look ridiculous and ignorant.

I say all that as a gay man currently on my second lifetime ban from donating. The first one I got over turned (due to something in my childhood). I would love to be a regular donor, I have to most common blood phentotypes in Ireland, but I can't. Gay men can't even be organ donors!

FiachDubh

aloyisious wrote: »

The thought pattern was that Gay men are promiscuous. were liable at the drop of a hat to have sex with another man (or men) and not give a damn about the STD risks. There was the "bath-house" issue raised in relation to the AIDS epidemic in the US. The last sentence in your post probably still applies, it's hard to shake a prejudice, especially one born of actual and factual evidence.

I don't think its because gay men like a bit of whoring, but rather that anal sex has a much higher risk factor for spreading STDs than vaginal intercourse. Obviously, gay men are more likely to have anal sex then straight men ergo gay man have a higher chance of carrying something nasty.
Its not discrimination folks its science!
I'm all for the ban- better safe than sorry. But even if i were straight i wouldn't give blood, the thought of my blood in someone else's veins freaks me out. But fair play to those that do give.

elfy4eva

Can Gay men be an organ doner? or is that ruled out aswell?

Dingle_berry

elfy4eva wrote: »

Can Gay men be an organ doner? or is that ruled out aswell?

AFAIK we can't but I'm open to correction:
http://www.beaumont.ie/files/2009/docs/20091005033413_MR409B%20English.pdf

Scortho

I hate this. Im straight and a regular blood donor.
I dispise getting asked these questions as its so discriminatory.
Do some gay men have HIV? Yes.
Do some straight people have HIV? Yes
So why do they discriminate against a small segment of our population?
A woman can have anal sex with a man and can still give.
How does she know that he's clean or anything? And likewise the man.
Just because a persons straight, doesn't mean that they're disease free.

Typical Ireland though.

Dingle_berry

Scortho wrote: »

I hate this. Im straight and a regular blood donor.
I dispise getting asked these questions as its so discriminatory.
Do some gay men have HIV? Yes.
Do some straight people have HIV? Yes
So why do they discriminate against a small segment of our population?
A woman can have anal sex with a man and can still give.
How does she know that he's clean or anything? And likewise the man.
Just because a persons straight, doesn't mean that they're disease free.

Typical Ireland though.

It's not just Ireland.

And it's based on statistics. If you take the number of individuals with an infection transmissible by blood products and express it as a percentage of the population of either exclusively heterosexual or MSM, the MSM will have the higher percentage.
The gay male community has a higher incidence of infection and its not getting better. Despite knowledge and other protection methods being freely available and easily accessed.
You can't ban everyone at risk from donating but you can cut out large chunks of risk by banning groups that are at higher risk. This in turn cuts down the risks of false negatives from screening tests.

I don't advocate a lifetime ban but I don't blame the IBTS entirely either.

wonderfulname

Are all LGBT individuals banned from donating blood?
Men who have sex with men (MSM) are banned for life from donating blood products in Ireland. This is enforced regardless of age, HIV status, number of sexual partners, etc. In effect, the ban is based on sexuality rather than risk profile.

Are there restrictions on LGBT people donating organs?
Without exception, the same criteria apply to heterosexual and LGBT organ donors.

http://www.gaydoctorsireland.ie/frequently-asked-questions/

All information I have been aware of until now agrees with the above quote, the pdf above is the first time I have ever seen explicit reference to MSM being restricted from donating organs, I believe that information to be wrong and would trust GDI as a reputable source.

Annasopra

wonderfulname wrote: »

http://www.gaydoctorsireland.ie/frequently-asked-questions/

All information I have been aware of until now agrees with the above quote, the pdf above is the first time I have ever seen explicit reference to MSM being restricted from donating organs, I believe that information to be wrong and would trust GDI as a reputable source.

It doesnt specifically say in that pdf that MSM cannot donate organs

wonderfulname

You're right, my document scanning has failed me. Oops!

Tito Man!

I used to donate blood regularly; I am one of the rarer blood groups. O-, the universal donor.

It really upsets me that I can no longer donate. I was going to go and donate one day and simply lie. But I didn't. It wouldn't have been right at all.

It is very discriminatory and should be changed. Apart from one five minute contact with another man, the only man I've ever been with is my boyfriend. And I'm the only man he's ever been with. We're both clean and tested.

I really fail to see why I cannot donate. But that's life, unfortunately.

Emzer92

Tito Man! wrote: »

It really upsets me that I can no longer donate. I was going to go and donate one day and simply lie. But I didn't. It wouldn't have been right at all.

It is very discriminatory and should be changed.

I've been having that very debate internally recently, whether or not to lie and donate anyway. But I shouldn't have to.

I don't think it's a blanket ban on sexual orientation specifically, but rather a specific sexual behaviour that puts MSMs in the high risk group. Theoretically, a gay man could give blood freely, but only if he's never had sex with another man.

I think that part of the problem is a lack of awareness, on all fronts. I think that the younger generation of gay men haven't seen first hand the horrific results of HIV/AIDS yet, and so they're behaving more riskily. Also, most people don't realise what the blood ban is! The reactions I've experienced from the few (straight) friends that I've talked to about this is one of confusion, disappointment, and anger that I, along with a vast swathe of people, can't give blood. We're tainted. (Ok, that's a bit inflammatory . . . but you understand what I'm getting at)

I know that the Union of Students in Ireland has a long term campaign against the blood ban, but they've been at it for so long (and no one really listens to us students anyway, right :P ) And you can understand why this isn't such a hot-button issue with most of the LGBT*QI folk as we have rather more pressing issues to be dealing with (Marriage Equality, Adoption/Surrogacy, Trans Rights, . . . the list goes on!) but still, it's something that impacts negatively on my life, so it's a hot-button issue for me!

Annasopra

wonderfulname wrote: »

You're right, my document scanning has failed me. Oops!

So it was confirmed last week sexually active gay men cant donate organs!

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2013-07-03a.580&s=reilly+organs+segment%3A5614614#g582.r

mango salsa

mango salsa wrote: »

So it was confirmed last week sexually active gay men cant donate organs!

http://www.kildarestreet.com/wrans/?id=2013-07-03a.580&s=reilly+organs+segment%3A5614614#g582.r

That's really depressing. When they say sexually active I guess that means it's a lifetime ban, like with blood donation. So even if (heaven forbid!) I don't have sex for the next 50 years, and it's obvious I have no STI, I'd still be forbidden from donating? That'd be insane. I think Ireland should follow the UK and lift the lifetime ban; the "1 year deferral" model isn't perfect but it's a damn-site better than a lifetime ban.

*sigh* Well hopefully I'll still be able to leave my body to a medical school for hungover med students to slice up and play with....

Annasopra

So much is changing on this

In Northern Ireland Edwin Poorlts was found by a court to be biased in continuing a ban

http://m.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-30733667

In ROI its being reviewed

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/gay-mens-blood-ban-under-review-minister-confirms-653820.html

_Redzer_

I'm glad to hear it's getting reviewed. It's such a flawed system in place with far too many leniencies for straight people and unrealistically stringent restrictions for gay people.

Wasn't aware I'm banned from donating organs too. Thought that was still allowed. Well that's a bit depressing.

FrStone

I hope that the ban is not overturned.

Simply put men who have sex with men are more likely to have HIV. That's a fact, a much larger percentage of men who have sex with men have HIV in comparison to the rest of the population. The testing process for HIV does not pick up HIV in the first six months of getting the disease. So therefore the chance of tainted blood getting through to a patient is higher if the donor is in the MSM group.

With the history of bad blood in this country we must work to make sure that we never infect a patient again. My own grandmother died from HIV she picked got from a blood transfusion (of course we only found that out many years later).

On the 6.1, while discussing the report there was an option whereby the MSM could donate if they hadn't had sex with another man in the past 12 months and that does make sense, and should be implemented. We have to put patient safety before discrimination.

J_E

But the ban isn't there purely because of statistics - it was implemented at a time when there was a lot more paranoia and misinformation regarding AIDS. I think the current policy could do a lot better - what about men who are sexually active but don't partake in anal sex, and maybe only tried that once in their life? You are lifetime banned for practically looking at another man. I think the only hope in a real change will be in a faster screening process whereby it can be detected on the spot - but whatever, if they don't want my blood, so be it. I am also a more uncommon type that they pleaded with me in the past to donate for.

FrStone

J_E wrote: »

But the ban isn't there purely because of statistics - it was implemented at a time when there was a lot more paranoia and misinformation regarding AIDS. I think the current policy could do a lot better - what about men who are sexually active but don't partake in anal sex, and maybe only tried that once in their life? You are lifetime banned for practically looking at another man. I think the only hope in a real change will be in a faster screening process whereby it can be detected on the spot - but whatever, if they don't want my blood, so be it. I am also a more uncommon type that they pleaded with me in the past to donate for.

You are 100% correct, the ban was first implemented due to misinformation but as time went on it became apparent it was the correct thing to do using statistics.

The lifetime ban is harsh, and that's why I said that I support one of the options in the report mentioned on the six one today, whereby men who haven't had sex with another man in the past 12 months can donate. This way there blood will show up as having HIV if tested for it, and can just not be given to patients.

Unfortunately we will have to do without your blood until they find a new way to test for HIV. Just the same way people who lived in the UK between certain years can't donate. We have very stringent standards for donating blood, and I think it is important that the standard remains stringent.

Dingle_berry

FrStone wrote: »

The testing process for HIV does not pick up HIV in the first six months of getting the disease.

The IBTS now uses PCR testing methods which can detect the infection before 6 months. It's serological techniques that can't detect infection until seroconversion which is, on average, 6 months.
Also modern techniques like leukodepletion reduce the risk of transmission.

It's anal sex that carries the heightened risk of disease transmission. The current donor selection criteria assumes that only men engage in anal sex with other men. Oral sex carries less risk than vaginal sex but if two men engage in it they still recieve a ban, a heterosexual or lesbian couple doesn't.

Every donation carries risk. The IBTS is supposed to reduce the risks while maintaining a suitable stock. Treating risky sexual behaviour (regardless of sexuality) the same as other risky procedures like tattoos, piercing, acupuncture, etc would broaden their donor pool.