doom 3 slipping?

glimmerman

http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/board.pl?action=viewthread&threadid=43062

maybe id are feeling the heat with HL2?? :)

Retr0gamer

I think you will see a lot of FPS's either slipping or being rushed out early because of HL2. It happened before with HL. I think this will probably be to do with the xbox version as well. It's funny though since ID have usually been very good with getting a game out in time for a release date.

jesus_thats_gre

Yeah, its obviously a response to HL2, that game just seems to be year ahead of anyone else.

zAbbo

Shudn`t we be blaming Raven not ID

Giblet

I doubt they're feeling any "heat", or else they would put it out early! More likely they're just taking their time with it.

glimmerman

I think whether or not its ready, its probably mutually beneficial to BOTH developers to not release in the same quarter... they'd be treading all over each others market.

I was wondering which one I'd choose... this makes it easy.. I'll take both.

Sarky

Could be they saw the promotioinal footage of HL2 and thought "Hey that's cool, lets put some of that into Doom3!"

Dooom

Originally posted by bazH
Shudn`t we be blaming Raven not ID

i thought id were developing doom 3.....raven are doing quake 4

Giblet

Anyone with any sense would buy both games. It's not like buying a console games i.e very expensive.

Retr0gamer

You're right Spike. Although we can't blame anyone since it's an good business move by ID. If I had to choose between HL2 and Doom 3 I wouldn't have to think about it. HL2 all the way although I've enough moola to get both.

Giblet

Well Retr0 you've slated DoomIII from the start, so that doesn't surprise me.

Retr0gamer

I'm actually looking forward to it far more now after seeing the new videos. It looks like a game now instead of a graphics demo. Just hope the guns get a little more interesting. Thank god ID got some new animators and art guys.

Giblet

Paul Steed was a genious, i'd say it would be better if he was there. Fired because he sided with John Carmack.
Have you not played the Alpha, crazy!

jesus_thats_gre

yeah it looks deadly, seems like it is going to be very atmospheric as well!!!

Retr0gamer

Paul Steed was a genius but there was no art direction in Quake 2 or Quake 3. I didn't like the style at all. It was just some sci fi setting made up by a bunch of nerds. The guns and enemies had no character (except the rail gun).

monument

One would have to think id are a bit worried about Half Life 2.

Giblet

Do you not think that John Carmack has known about Half-Life 2 since the project started, and has probably played it?

glimmerman

Originally posted by Giblet
Do you not think that John Carmack has known about Half-Life 2 since the project started, and has probably played it?

Nah, he wouldn't have played it. Valve and id are deadly rivals. But you're right, he probably has known that it was in development (I mean, c'mon, they were ALWAYS going to do a HL2)

Dooom

er...well considering that no-one knew about it till a coupla weeks (or months whatever) ago and it was kept so well under wraps...

Giblet

No-one in the public........

monument

Originally posted by Giblet
Do you not think that John Carmack has known about Half-Life 2 since the project started, and has probably played it?

Yes, I’d say so, but I don’t know about him playing it. That doesn’t mean id aren’t worried about HL2 or how it’s getting more attention then their upcoming titles.

Edit: People are also getting more excited about HL2... http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=106228&perpage=20&pagenumber=2

BLITZ_Molloy

I don't see how either game would suffer sales due to the other. People are spending thousands of pounds getting their systems up to scratch. It's idiocy to think they'd only buy one game.

I think the real results are going to be on the long term. Quake 3 and Half Life have been selling solidly for years now. Somehow though, I don't think Doom 3 is going to be as enduring.. maybe.

glimmerman

I tend to buy games when I know I'll have a little time to spare... and so I tend to buy one to last a few months. Having two great games in my favourite genre come out simultaneously messes with my head (and my sleeptime, and the quality of my work etcetc )

monument

Originally posted by BLITZ_Molloy
I don't see how either game would suffer sales due to the other. People are spending thousands of pounds getting their systems up to scratch. It's idiocy to think they'd only buy one game.

Hmm, I didn’t even mean to hint at sales.

However let’s say two big games came out within a month of each other only a fool would say one wouldn’t affect the other. (Partly proven by the above comment by glimmerman)

Dooom

yea but people are bound to buy the both of them anyway...

BlitzKrieg

Didnt half life force dakitana to be rushed even more when it was obviously not up to scratch or did people just say that because it was so woefully overhyped?

Retr0gamer

Daikatana was definitely rushed because of HL and the same with Sin. Both seemed very unfinished. Sin was really buggy and Daikatana was badly balanced and just plain crap.

Not everyone can afford two games every month. Poor Joe Soap would have a choice between HL2 and Doom 3 and would definitely pick up HL2. If it came out a while later them it's a no brainer to pick up HL2 and save for Doom 3.

Giblet

Originally posted by Retr0gamer

Not everyone can afford two games every month. Poor Joe Soap would have a choice between HL2 and Doom 3 and would definitely pick up HL2. If it came out a while later them it's a no brainer to pick up HL2 and save for Doom 3.

There is no way you would know what would sell more.....

Retr0gamer

There is no way of knowing. However if I was a betting man I'd put a large fortune on HL2 selling far more than Doom 3. Just look at the poll somewhere else on this board. If it's a choice between HL2 and Doom 3 then most people will get HL2.

CivilServant

Originally posted by monument
However let’s say two big games came out within a month of each other only a fool would say one wouldn’t affect the other. (Partly proven by the above comment by glimmerman) [/QUOTE]

Yeah that may be true but when the dust settles anyone who likes pc gaming in any way will have both. In the long run I think HL2 will sell more because of the better engine but we'll have to wait and see what id can come up with in the meantime.

Can't wait for HL3, photorealistic characters is 2-3 years away?!

MrPinK

I think if Doom 3 turns out to be the game everyone hopes it will be, then HL2 won't make any difference. The average game might be effected by competition from siimilar titles, but a truely great game will sell very well regardless. If Doom 3 turns out to be great game (not certain yet), even if some ppl can't afford to buy 2 games at the same time, then will still come back and buy it a month or 2 later

Matt Simis

Originally posted by CivilServant

Yeah that may be true but when the dust settles anyone who likes pc gaming in any way will have both. In the long run I think HL2 will sell more because of the better engine but we'll have to wait and see what id can come up with in the meantime.

Can't wait for HL3, photorealistic characters is 2-3 years away?!

Not trying to get off topic, but D3 has the better engine. The most fantastic part of the [HL2] Source engine is the physics model, which is actually licensed from Havok (www.havok.com - a company setup by two Irish guys). Same Physics engine can and is used in many other games (mainly upcoming).

Sure the characters look great as well and the game most likely will be excellent, but Doom3 is going for a true, realtime Cinematic look and feel. Half Life2 looks like the pinnacle of current generation FPS games and design... Doom3 should at least look like something new.



Matt

monument

Originally posted by Matt Simis
Not trying to get off topic, but D3 has the better engine. The most fantastic part of the [HL2] Source engine is the physics model, which is actually licensed from Havok (www.havok.com - a company setup by two Irish guys). Same Physics engine can and is used in many other games (mainly upcoming).

Sure the characters look great as well and the game most likely will be excellent, but Doom3 is going for a true, realtime Cinematic look and feel. Half Life2 looks like the pinnacle of current generation FPS games and design... Doom3 should at least look like something new.



Matt

Yes, and Havok 2 was done with the help and feed back from Valve.

Retr0gamer

I much prefer the HL2 engine over the Doom 3 one. The HL2 engine can do far more interaction with the enviroments and some huge levels. Some of the effects in the engine will not be seen in the Doom 3 engine. The tech demo really impressed me. Doom 3 is meant to look good and thats about al it does although it does it well. The levels are meant to be tiny consisting of corridors and tiny outdoor spaces. There is just so much more that the source engine can do compared to the Doom 3 engine.

zAbbo

Retr0gamer, have you played HL2 or Doom3 ?

Retr0gamer

I've played the alpha of Doom 3 and seen all the videos of Doom 3 and HL2. The technology test of HL2 impressed me more than than anything I've seen on the Doom 3 engine. It looks like the mod community will be biggest for HL2 because it looks far more customisable and flexible. The car bit in the E3 demo is an example. Expect a racing mod fairly soon after it is released. From what i played in the Doom 3 alpha and judging on how much ram that game eats up i'd say the levels will be far smaller than the huge open spaces and cities of HL2.

KdjaCL

HL2 will sell more copies but D3 will sell more licences.
But i cant see them being massive sellers not with that "optimal specs" crap ID posted.
Hl2 wont be far behind in graphics and specs req:
And not many people have or will pay to get those types of specs.

G4 or higher with 128mb ..LMAO

kdjac

Matt Simis

Originally posted by monument
Yes, and Havok 2 was done with the help and feed back from Valve.

Yes... that is true, but doesnt contradict anything Ive said. Intel work with SIs and motherboard vendors (more so in years gone by) for their new CPUs, nVidia work with their partners to develop new GPUs.. but at the end of the day the IP is Intels, nVidia and Havoks. Cooperation is desirable sometimes.

Ill reserve judgement on which is "better" until I can see them both. Im merely stating that IDs plan is more grandiose than Valves.



Matt

Matt Simis

Originally posted by KdjaC
HL2 will sell more copies but D3 will sell more licences.
But i cant see them being massive sellers not with that "optimal specs" crap ID posted.
Hl2 wont be far behind in graphics and specs req:
And not many people have or will pay to get those types of specs.

G4 or higher with 128mb ..LMAO

kdjac

Geforce4s will be what, at least 2 years old when D3 is out? Are you honestly saying that you think when they're out people who want the game either wont pay the pittance it costs for a 9600Radeon\5600FX or already have GF4+ level graphics?

When Im specing\building PCs for people, the minimum GFX I put in is a GF4 Ti. (or now its DX9 counterpart, the FX 5600)



Matt

monument

Yes and I'm merely stating that they helped them. There’s no need to always be contradicting people

And I've never stated which is best, as I'll also wait untill I've seen both.

KdjaCL

Matt the reason (imo) that HL did so well is that any PC can play it even gameboys (probably not but you get the point).
Not a lot of people will upgrade their pcs in such a large fashion for 2 games (yes i know it will be the new standard ) but its a lot to ask.
By this i mean general gamer buys a PC from PC World etc: have a look in their for a PC that might even run the demo for doom 3.

Hence methinks it neither will sell well.

kdjac

BLITZ_Molloy

The Doom3 engine really isn't that impressive. It can't handle many characters on screen at once and you can forget about large outdoor levels. Everything is going to be sci-fi tunnels.

The way I see it Quake 3 and Half Life sold millions of units over several years. The first months sales aren't that vital.

Matt Simis

Originally posted by KdjaC
Matt the reason (imo) that HL did so well is that any PC can play it even gameboys (probably not but you get the point).
Not a lot of people will upgrade their pcs in such a large fashion for 2 games (yes i know it will be the new standard ) but its a lot to ask.
By this i mean general gamer buys a PC from PC World etc: have a look in their for a PC that might even run the demo for doom 3.

Hence methinks it neither will sell well.

kdjac

I may quote you to that one day, far off in the future.



Matt

Giblet

Actually, you may not know this but for 25 fps gameplay with bumpmapping off, the min specs for DoomIII are *DrumRoll*

Geforce 256, 1Ghz, 256 ram.

The alpha was an unfinished version and only optimised to one computer.

If you do think that only top spec computers are going to be playing these games, then you obviously haven't been keeping up with current technology.

The average entry level system in a year will be about 2.4Ghz, with at least a GF4 MX, and 256 or 512 ram!

And I've seen even the puny GF4 MX run the alpha at 40fps. With 512 Dual Channel ram you'll be laughing.

CivilServant

Yes doom and id will always have a tremendous following with the flippin fantastic history of games they've already made, everyone was thinkin that doom3 is going to be the next big thing. But then HL2 showed up and I read somewhere that it sort of brings up a point about how teamsizes can affect the size and ultimately quality of a game.

I think id have done marvellously well to bring out something like doom3 with all the programming tomfoolery that only carmack and his gang can produce. But nowadays the sizes of team that work on games could be in the hundreds and then you've got outsourced software too (havok physics engine). Versus the 20-30 strong team at id. They seem to be very particular who they let in and don't want to expand to much and loose that coherency in programming and game direction.

There's only so much that a small team can do. I'm not thinking david and goliath here but that might not be far from the truth. As to Matt Simis' point, surely you were impressed at the tech demos, realism and scope of HL2. It blew everything away at E3.

I still have my fingers crossed for doom3 and will keep my opinion about their engine to myself until I see the actual product. Makes more sense really.

Matt Simis

Originally posted by CivilServant


There's only so much that a small team can do. I'm not thinking david and goliath here but that might not be far from the truth. As to Matt Simis' point, surely you were impressed at the tech demos, realism and scope of HL2. It blew everything away at E3.

I still have my fingers crossed for doom3 and will keep my opinion about their engine to myself until I see the actual product. Makes more sense really.

I was impressed at the character models and general graphics. However, even the original Operation Flashpoint had more realism and "scope" (Im sure its sequel will have more so). Stalker seems to combine GFX and realism very nicely. Unfortunately a lot of people seem to be suffering from "HL blindness" and are fixated on one game\engine.


Matt

Retr0gamer

Finally saw the stalker video during the weekend. The engine is very impressive. I think it handles organic enviroments far better than the other engines I've seen. However I'm not too sure about the mutants. i'd prefer if there were more real people to kill. The change from video to game engine was very impressive.

CivilServant

Yeah I agree with you about HL blindness I think you can get specific treatment for it now.

Doom3 and Stalker OL. I was impressed with Stalker when I first seen it last year, but a lot has happened since then. HL2 in my opinion is a massive leap for fps' in general. Creating a realism that hasn't been seen since going from doom to quake.

I don't think I'm suffering from HL blindness, I just think it's going to be a fantastic game and so do a lot of other people.

Matt Simis

Originally posted by CivilServant
Yeah I agree with you about HL blindness I think you can get specific treatment for it now.

Doom3 and Stalker OL. I was impressed with Stalker when I first seen it last year, but a lot has happened since then. HL2 in my opinion is a massive leap for fps' in general. Creating a realism that hasn't been seen since going from doom to quake.

I don't think I'm suffering from HL blindness, I just think it's going to be a fantastic game and so do a lot of other people.

Yeah, Im sure HL2 will be. Its almost a given at this stage. Stalker on the otherhand could\should be great, lot of big, "new" things they are trying to do. It could be the best FPS\RPG ever, or it could be a big mess.

Stalkers story revolves around your interaction with the miltary and other stalkers in an environment filled with mutants, so plenty of human killing (if you want apparently). Infact the latest video (which was quite good) was 99% AI Teams vs Human and AI teams.



Matt