college V appentice ???

LegacyUser

i have a problem well more a decision to make


i have been going to college for two years now studying computer programming and i now have a cert got a merit 1.

i like programming it comes easy to me

the problem is i dont think to work at it at for the rest of my life is for me you grow to had your work !!!
also being broke the whole time sucks!!
and the job prospects are bad these days for coders

i have tought about be coming an appentice many time but now this stage, me now age 20 and half way through a degree i cant really turn back can i ???

Gordon

Better off in the work forum tbh...

DEmeant0r

Finish your degree, then try to get a job in IT for a couple of months, if unsuccessful you could start an apparentenceship (sp?)

Sandi

Exactly what Demeant0r said. Finish the college course, get the qualification and if you don't like working in that area try something else but at least if you get the qualification you'll have something to fall back on. Don't give up now and go for an apprenticeship that may or may not work out.

bug

ok purely my opinion.I would go for the apprenticeship.

reasons:
1)Its a trade you can take anywhere in the world, ie: electrical, industrial plumbing.(If your interested in long term travel)
2) Im 25 went to college did physics and most of my mates that did a trade are earning more than me.
3)nixers
4) change of location: ie: not siting in the same location day-in day-out, means alot in a full time job
5) Physical work not sitting at a desk all day.- you can always teach yourself programming in your spare time or do a nite course.

I wanted to do an apprenticeship when I was 17 but couldn't get anyone to sponsor me, I regret it, so I may be biased.
Either way think seriously about it. But never be under the impression that it's too late to start a new interest/career.

dazberry

Have to agree with bug.

Plus
6) Technology changes so fast that you're almost only as good as your last job, and even if the technology is right, the business may be wrong. You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

I've been programming commerially for over 9 years, and the basic fact is that most companies don't actually understand the processes or management of software development. If you like software development, keep it as a hobby, but go and do something else where your work is appreciated and you're not threated like a commodity.

D.

HaVoC

well i posted this thread

i'm in the process of appling for my add on dipolma now
so i guess it now or never

as i siad i all ready have a cert

i agree with bug but it still seems like a huge change to make this late i really dont know.

and It so hard to get work in IT right now

i want to travel and work
so an apprentice would be the way to go i guess
i worked as labour on a building site last year it was good craic there.

wish i had just gone there in 5th year and i would be 2 year into my apprentiship

:mad:

HaVoC

have you worked in IT dazberry??

are you speaking from experiance ?

dazberry

Originally posted by HaVoC
have you worked in IT dazberry??

are you speaking from experiance ?

Yeap, and yeap :eek:

D.

Stoner

I work for an electrical engineering contracting firm, I have hired and watched over many apprentices, I went to college (dip in elec eng) and did prof exams (elec eng) on a part time basis, I also have a BscIT (part time). Essentially I have worked on sites and with sites and still do, I have about 6-7 years working in the contracting ind but I need to feed my technical side, essentially if your into PCs etc then i think you should stick with it, I have never given a college drop out an apprenticeship, I have not sterotyped the applicants, I have just never been impressed with their reasons for leaving college or for wanting to enter the trade, it always seemed rushed and the decission was made for want of change and not want of the trade.
It took me along time to earn more money then a tradesperson, also they get paid for every hour they work , unlike us fixed payed workers. However what I will say is that alot of the tradespeople my age and older (28) would like to work towards an office job, but they find themselves unskilled and demanding too much money, essentially there is a wage cap inside the trade, the money is very good but only so good, moving up the ladder for many tradespeople means an initlal drop in money, and few make it or get the opportunity.Obviously you can go into business for yourself and gamble on huge bucks. We tend to offer very good apprentices the opportunity to leave the trade and work in the office while going to college part time, my advice for what it is worth is to finish college but do your best to land a job on site for the remaining summers, this way you will see what is it likle on site, also look at the older people and see if you would be happy in their position at their age, a degree with summer work would make a very good CV for an apprenticeship, you would have experience, a degree and a real idea of the working enviroment. Electrical work is hard and it can sometime quickly reach the stage where everything is based on speed of work, once you learn how to do something there is not a huge amount of thinking involved, this can bore somepeople wo have set themselves up as problem sovlers, in this ISO9001/Quality/claim working environment there are no short cuts on site, just the right job first time as quickly as possible, and that is how you are measured.
Essentially only go for it if you are really into it, being a good tradesperson is hard, site demands are also difficult and work is drying up so the fat is being trimmed within the industry.
Best of luck with your decission.

Maxthedog02

Hi Coder. What was your decision? Did you continue with the diploma and how are you getting on with it?
I was in the same situation, but i chose to leave as i dont want to work at programming or computers now. Im looking for an eletricial firm to take me on now.

RicardoSmith

Used to work in the building trade, and switched to IT. I often think I would be better off had I stuck with with the building. If I was back doing it again I'd have stuck to the building.

joePC

For gods sake finish the degree:

1. A Irish degree in IT u can go anywhere in the world (Much better chance of getting green card etc.)
2. When u finish an apprentice what more is there to learn (Not much the same carp up to your balls in it during the cold winters)
3. No real security in the building game when your sick who pays you sick leave ( no one thats who)
4. No company pension
5. You'll be fecked by the time your 50

The list is endless ( It sounds great now with maybe plp u now earing loads of money but in the long run you'll be better off)

Finish the degree get some experence in the IT industry and believe me you'll be asking yourself what was I thinking.

I respect everyone elses opinion & I hope you come to a decision.

Thanks joe............

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by joePC
For gods sake finish the degree:

1. A Irish degree in IT u can go anywhere in the world (Much better chance of getting green card etc.)
2. When u finish an apprentice what more is there to learn (Not much the same carp up to your balls in it during the cold winters)
3. No real security in the building game when your sick who pays you sick leave ( no one thats who)
4. No company pension
5. You'll be fecked by the time your 50

The list is endless ( It sounds great now with maybe plp u now earing loads of money but in the long run you'll be better off)

Finish the degree get some experence in the IT industry and believe me you'll be asking yourself what was I thinking.

I respect everyone elses opinion & I hope you come to a decision.

Thanks joe............

Then you don't mind if I add...

1. I have to disagree, its easier to get a job in construction than IT anywhere else.
2. You can always learn more.
3. Depends on the company not if its IT/Construction
4. Depends on the company not if its IT/Construction
5. Not unless you're doing things the wrong way
.

Atreides

Basically Qualifications is what it comes down to. No matter what field you chose make sure your qualified. Your post says college or apprentice the simple fact is that to become a fully qualified trades man you will need some third level education, if your lucky Bolton street. Its the way my brother did it, and he is extremely well qualified in his field and can travel the world. For some reason people think a trade is different to the general rules. More qualified you are the better paid you are, the better your treated in general. Trade is not the easy way out of anything, its just different. My opinion, is that you know better then anybody here what you should do/.

Stoner

Lads I dont know if its just me or not but I dont think that coder reads our advice, LOL, maybe hes better off

deevey

Why isnt there any IT apprenticeships? thats my question.

yes I agree that finishing college is a better idea, but only becuse the current employers and agencies demand it, it seems before even considering you for an interview regardless of experience.

Seems you now need a degree in food safety to get a job in burger king these days

Surely IT related apprenticeships "should" be a better Idea for many IT related jobs e.g. Computer maintainance, web technologies, server/network admin or some forms of programming, rather than hiring graduates that have a cert saying these guys know their stuff cause they did it three years ago in their first year in college - Oops, sorry new versions of software is out now, you need to spend six months training to get with the current versions - BUT we'll pay for that.

Ok sorry for the ramble, just pretty pee'd looking for jobs and finding that experience seems to count for nothing anymore without a piece of paper that says "I used" to be able to do this a while ago."

Laters

Steve - good at learning what I need to know when I need it

RicardoSmith

Well I'm not sure that IT is as good a career money wise as its made out to be. Theres a lot of low paid jobs in IT. Even when you have a lot of experience. I have started to think that a good trades/craftsman would be better paid.

^CwAzY^

RicardoSmith if you're good at IT then with the relevant experience and a qualification, yes you will be paid very well.
I'm presuming you either a) don't have a college/equal qualification or b) are really bad at what you do
Either way if you're bad at one thing and can't get a good job in it, don't think you're gonna be good at a trade.

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by ^CwAzY^
....I'm presuming you either a) don't have a college/equal qualification or b) are really bad at what you do...

Could you expand on that? May I also ask what is your experience of IT that gives you such a rosy view of it? My comments are based on my experience of over 10yrs in the construction and then in IT. I have lots of contacts in both industries. When I see IT contractors I know struggling to pick up contracts at decent rates, 15-30+ p/h and some construction tradesman getting 1000 even 2000 a week and turning away work I think that tells its own story. I have yet to hear of a big layoff from a construction firm in the past 5 yrs yet the IT industries is laying off people by the bucket load. Admittedly people are being rehired but not at the rates they were. Theres lots of low paid and low tech work in the IT industry but most people equate IT with higher paying jobs. But thats just not true.

^CwAzY^

Maybe there are a lot of low paid jobs in IT for people with no qualifications, or no experience, people such as yourself who work on contracts. You're never guaranteed a steady income working on contracts. Do you know anyone in construction who actually likes their job? I know a lot of people who tried it and hated it. Working on a freezing cold building site in the middle of winter lifting heavy bricks and walking in mud for 10 hours a day.

And in fairness its only the people in construction who have been doing it a long time (10-15 years+) who make money like €1000-2000/week. My uncle has been in construction all his life (30+ years) and he's only making slightly above average salary - nothing huge, try find me someone who has been in IT for 30 years and is making average salary. Also it's very boring work I heard. Doing the same thing day in day out for years on end. At least in IT it's always changing with new technologies, a MUCH wider variety of jobs, etc.

Btw I'm basing this on someone who has a degree in IT and 3 years experience in the industry earning a very high salary.

RicardoSmith

Take a civil engineer on big building site, lots of them love their jobs. Same with carpenters, electricians etc. Lots of jobs in construction other than labouring which is what as I assume you are refering to. Also many people hate working 9-5 and sitting behind a desk all day. So its horses for courses? I know electricians, plasterers and plumbers who are less than 5 years in construction who are easily earning more than their mates with degrees in IT. Some of them even have their own small companies.

Theres lots of boring work in IT too. And actually I know no one whos been in IT 30 years so you have me there. What would they have been doing in 1973? But I know people who have been in IT for 10 years and aren't in high paying jobs. You get people like that in every sphere of work. However 3 years experience in IT would be considered intermediate level of experience in any role. I'd assume them to be on 25-35. So what are they doing to be earning a "Very high salary"? To me that means about 50+ Which I though you only got if you were senior management, or a contractor with about 5-10yrs experience and landed a cushty number somewhere.

Stoner

there have been loads of layoffs in the electrical industry. We receive about 15 calls a week and if we place an add for an electrician we have to use a PO Box to reduce office calls etc we had 214 responses for 1 job about 6 weeks ago, when the work in Intel finished up about 200 electricians were out of work, companies are laying men off all the time, you just dont hear about it in the news because contracting work is different and men are let go and taken on all the time.

casper-

Originally posted by dazberry

I've been programming commerially for over 9 years, and the basic fact is that most companies don't actually understand the processes or management of software development. If you like software development, keep it as a hobby, but go and do something else where your work is appreciated and you're not threated like a commodity.

D.

Amen ... shout it from the rooftops, etc.! I'm only five years in myself, which I feel is almost too long to just throw away, but I have similar thoughts all the time as well.

casper-

Originally posted by deevey
Why isnt there any IT apprenticeships? thats my question.

Don't they offer co-op terms when you're doing a CS degree here? Although, with the way the economy is, perhaps companies wouldn't be hiring students to trian them anymore ...

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by Stoner
there have been loads of layoffs in the electrical industry. We receive about 15 calls a week and if we place an add for an electrician we have to use a PO Box to reduce office calls etc we had 214 responses for 1 job about 6 weeks ago, when the work in Intel finished up about 200 electricians were out of work, companies are laying men off all the time, you just dont hear about it in the news because contracting work is different and men are let go and taken on all the time.

Well I'm only hearing from my friends who are sparks. The're all doing well. Better overall than most of the people I know in IT. Though senior IT people are still doing ok and a lot better than most sparks in fariness.