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We get to have some footpaths back

  • 10-07-2003 3:26pm
    Registered Users Posts: 78,010 ✭✭✭✭

    Yay! We get to have some footpaths back. Now, I don't mind cafés and bars having seating outside, however a lot of them take liberties (especially with legs of railings) and / or obstruct pinch points on footpaths.
    €1,615 council bill calls time on outdoor drinks scene
    From:The Irish Independent
    Thursday, 10th July, 2003
    Helen Bruce

    THERE will be no more basking in the sun for regulars at Nash's Pub in Dublin, following a heated battle between the landlord and city council over a hike in pavement charges.

    Dublin City Council has, out of the blue, increased its annual licence fee for pavement tables and chairs from £40 to €1,615 in just three years.

    Landlord Patrick Nash refused to pay the exorbitant fee, which resulted in the council confiscating his three tables and nine chairs from outside the Patrick Street pub, located near Christchurch Cathedral, and fining him €200 for their return.

    "It's not as if we're on the Champs Elysee in Paris," he said.

    "There are only a few days a year when people want to sit outside.

    "I think the corporation need to get a bit of a grasp of reality here.

    "I told the man from the corporation to come down here in February in his shorts and sunglasses and I'd bring him an ice-cold margarita and see how long he lasted."

    Mr Nash, who was presented with the €1,615 bill in May 2002, was amazed by its leap from the £150 charged the previous year, and the £40 in 2000.

    He has since discovered that a similar set-up in Cork would cost around €400, in Galway €200 and in Belfast nothing at all.

    The decision by Mr Nash to abandon his outdoor tables and chairs this year will dismay those who believe Ireland should adopt a more relaxed, European cafe style.

    The official charge is now €125 per table, plus €170 per square metre of pavement occupied.

    A spokeswoman for Dublin City Council last night could give no explanation for the fee hike, saying only that "charges have just increased".

    She added: "We have had an ongoing battle with this man."


  • Registered Users Posts: 19,608 ✭✭✭✭sceptre

    I tend to agree. There are only a few bars in Limerick that have outdoor seating. With a few of them it works quite well but two or three totally obstruct the footpath. It's grand if there's enough space but a few of them totally take liberties (including having them outside for 9 months a year on a narrow path). I must find out how much the city council in Limerick charge.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭MDR

    dunno, why should Dublin be charging these outrageous fees ?
    would it not be better for the city to have more of these outdoor facilities ? I personnally would love Dublin to have a more Latin style drinking and eating outside culture. These charges are stiffling growth, don't get me wrong, there should be someone wandering around making sure these cafés don't take the piss (I suppose you gotta pay for this person), but having what seem to quite excessive charges is going to achieve anything ...

  • Registered Users Posts: 78,010 ✭✭✭✭Victor

    Originally posted by MDR
    dunno, why should Dublin be charging these outrageous fees ?
    Why should the council charge any less than commercial landlords for prime retail space?

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭MDR

    for property they probabily onily get to use six or seven days a year ... ?

  • Registered Users Posts: 9,046 ✭✭✭Dustaz

    Those charges are ridiculous.

    How are businsses suposed to get the message that its not allright to charge what you want if the council are leading the way?

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭MDR

    here here ....

  • Registered Users Posts: 78,010 ✭✭✭✭Victor

    Originally posted by MDR
    for property they probabily onily get to use six or seven days a year ... ?
    Take a look around the areas near Grafton Street or Baggot Street, even in the dead of winter the tables are out.

  • Registered Users Posts: 1,532 ✭✭✭MDR

    true, but they are rare enough used during those seasons, Dublin city council is trying to adopt the attidute of the Parisian or Munich county council, where these pavement based tables and chairs, are very much a part of the 'business space'. but relistically in Ireland how often are they used ? €1,615 is alot of monso for very little real use (I know probabily not for a publicican, but it as Dusty suggests its the principle that counts).

    A far more productive thing to do would have been to make the business completely responsible for the upkeep of the pavement they rent, ensure its washed and swept proparily on a regular basis.

  • Registered Users Posts: 78,010 ✭✭✭✭Victor

    Originally posted by MDR
    true, but they are rare enough used during those seasons,
    Is it the Duke is on Duke street, surrounded by M&S? They even have propane(?) heaters out to during the winter to get more customers in (or out in this case).