Government gibs Irish games retail market... tossers.

Shinji

Kiss the Irish games industry goodbye.

Now, all games have to be rated by the Irish Film Censorship Board before they can be permitted to go on sale in this country - a process which can take up to two months. This means that games will be available 2 months earlier in the UK, thus effectively killing the games market here - an industry worth 30 million pounds anually.

Can you say "knee-jerk reaction"? You bet your life you can.

The games industry has been effectively self-regulating in Europe for almost a decade through ELSPA, which puts a rating on every game published. Only the most controversial games are sent to the BBFC and other censors to be looked at - 6% of all games in the last decade. In that time, ELSPA have only received one complaint about the classification of a game.

Why the Irish government feels that they need to censor _every_ game is beyond me. I think Suds put it nicely...

"...it makes ppl think the government are doing something - politics - who get s paid for doing it ? <IMG SRC="http://lacerta.ucg.ie/boards/smile.gif&quot; WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=15 BORDER=0 ALT=":)">"

I'll be doing my best to kick up a fuss about this, and I know that the rest of the games industry is up in arms. Like I say, this business is worth 30 million a year, and growing...

D'ya think we should start up a petition?

Ja na,
Shin-[now hates politicians]-chan

tHE vAGGABOND

that wont work the only way to get these peoples attention is through two ways - direc
t action (whatever form that takes) and/or the media - this can be done through media stunts - attention all hackers..oppertunity alert!! - we need to shove it right back up their ass.....and soon

Shinji

Well, I'll be writing a fair bit about it wherever I can. However, that "publicity stunt" idea is out. All it would do is drag the name of the industry in the mud even further...

Ja na,
Shin-[peaceful protest coordinator]-chan

Shiminay

Rob's right here - if this is happening - agression isn't the answer just yet. A campaign must be mounted though - this is an absolutely ridiculous idea.

Is tehre an email / snail-mail address to send complaints Rob???

Dav
<IMG SRC="http://lacerta.ucg.ie/boards/curlydav.gif&quot; WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=15 BORDER=0 ALT="@B^)&quot;>

Zero

hmmmm.....think warez is the only way to go girlz....oh no wait, thats all we do anyway in UL....

Shinji

I'm working on that address... the government press office are being slower than usual as it's the weekend, so I don't expect to hear back from them until Monday.

Also, I'm loathe to publish an email address here for fear of some idiot sending abusive "youre gey" style messages. I think that organising a proper petition is a better thing than everyone bombarding the place with email? Comments?

Ja na,
Shin-[my birthday today!]-chan

Spoonman

Warez will get you the games eairly and all that but with most of the fps released lately having CDKEYS whats the point.

Rev Hellfire

I think you'll find this action is only the start of things to come. As the net comes more into the general publics eye, the moral majority will start to attempt to apply restrictions to save us from our selves. It'll be interesting to see how carmagageddon 2 gets treated.
Anyway, they can censor all they like, what with trips to the north, mail order, on-line ordering, It'll mean diddly in real terms. But it looks good to the farmers, better to keep the kiddies save from da Intarnet, and leave it to the priests and bogger fathers to get on with the job.

Hecate

grr..

"The IFCB couldnt hide from [HIV]Hecate's BFG"

censor that!

tHE vAGGABOND

I dont mean to sound millitant or anything - but I maintain that the only way to get things done in this country short of bribes is to get publicity - not necessarly anything illegal but through media work - promoting the large ammount of self regulation in the industry, the money that it brings into the country - even common stuff like keeping kids off the streets, and the fact that all of US here are the heart of the celtic tiger, working 6 days a week and developing and exporting computer products - we should exploit the fact that more and more normal people have access to the net - while knowing very little about it. Stuff like press articles on the up-coming international (GWAN IRELAN' "we are the bhoys in green" "youl never beat the Irish" and so on and so forth....) can only be good

But it comes down to one thing we have to get organised......

Shinji

You're probably right, Rev, but the fact is that this is gonna hit the consoles even harder... which doesn't mean a lot to several of us at the moment (although I'd imagine that most of us have a PSX or N64), but it will once DreamCast and PSX-2 come out, equipped with modems...

Vagabond is right as well. This takes publicity - not the sort of adverse publicity you were suggesting earlier, mind!

BTW, Carmageddon 2 will slip in before this legislation takes effect.

Ja na,
Shin-[birthday boy]-chan

gandalf

Gentlemen,

With the Global economy goin the way it is we can order games directly over the internet from the UK or US. The people who will be effected by this the most are Games Retailers here. I for one will not wait 2 months for the idiots in this country to rate a game, or ban it (remember Life of Brian ffs) if its available elsewhere. If this is presented to the Games Retailers (Game, HMV, Virgin etc) I'm sure they can apply pressure that the politicians will take more notice of. As far as I'm concerned the political fools that we vote in do not even grasp any subject once it has anything to do with Technology or the Internet, look at the mess there making of the Telecommunications Industry (Especially cheaper internet access for us, it appears the ISP's are going to start to charge on the amount we download....which means the internet will cost us more).

Shinji its up to people like yourself to make the Games Retailers realise that this could effect their business here dramatically. I have bought Hardware & books over the internet, I will have no problems purchasing software over it as well. As someone said a knee-jerk reaction to allow the polititians of this country to soundbite for the news.

Gandalf.

Shiminay

Online ordering etc is not an option for some of us...we don't all have credit cards!!!
Besides, like Paul says, it'll REALLY hit the retailers hardest.

An organised approach is needed if we're to have any credibility or if anyone's going to stand up and listen.

I'm sure Rob will let us all know (care of these boards) the postal azddress we can send our letters. BUT!!! These letters will have to be rational - maybe if someone made out a standard letter that all you have to do is print out, sign and send that would be the best. I'll do it if anyone wants and make it available thru my site. Lemmie know. There's no point doing anything till we get this postal address.

Dav
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gandalf

Kharn,

I was just making a suggestion, I know there are those of us who don't have plastic (Don't go for it either u end up owing everything to them <IMG SRC="http://lacerta.ucg.ie/boards/frown.gif&quot; WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=15 BORDER=0 ALT=":("> ).

I agree a standard letter would be a very good idea and then we can snail mail bomb the government departments responsible for this and your local TD as well.

Gandalf.

Kegser

Important! Persons posting to these boards are liable for any legal or other actions resulting from the content of their posts. Messages containing inappropriate language or regarding illegal software are not allowed.

Just so you know, don't talk about Pirate Software

Kegs.

Shinji

Gandalf is right... this isn't really gonna hit me that hard, as I get all me PSX and N64 games direct from the suppliers, and my PC games are import or review, so it doesn't affect me - except, that it is nice to be able to walk into a shop and pick up a game every now and again. Oh yeah, and I'll prolly lose my job if the industry collapses. That's a point...

Anyway, the retailers are already pretty annoyed at the whole thing, as you might imagine, but the consumers need to show their disapproval as well. The idea of a standard letter is an excellent one, and I'm going to try to get it published in G4 as well, so readers can send it on - with 20,000 readers, even if only half of them send it, it's a damn big petition... Hell, even if only a tenth of them send it it's a lot.

BTW Plastic is the curse of the earth, as I've discovered to my horror. I'm never gonna bring my credit card shopping again. And eBay's auctions are worse, those damned things are addictive.

Ja na,
Shin-[big spender, small earner]-chan

tHE vAGGABOND

Along the same lines - I helped do this thing in college about re introducing fees in british colleges - we sent hundreds of postcards to various people in the british and irish governments - it got to the stage where Mary Harneys office threatened legal action if we did not stop, I realise that we cannot get 100,000 postcards printed but imagine......

By the way you all realise that you sent a letter to any TD or Minister and it goes through the hands of 2 or even 3 people before they see it...

What we should start to do is lobby the independents - and I'm thinking esp. Mildred Fox here (although see's a bit of a sap she has the potential to bring down the government ), she is in the heart of la-di-da rich ass computer user land -

if we could put some spin onto it to make it relevant to ordinary users who dont give a funk about the fact that Q3 is going to be 18's and out 3 months behind the rest of the world...

The Vaggabond of the Western World

tHE vAGGABOND

Along the same lines - I helped do this thing in college about re introducing fees in british colleges - we sent hundreds of postcards to various people in the british and irish governments - it got to the stage where Mary Harneys office threatened legal action if we did not stop, I realise that we cannot get 100,000 postcards printed but imagine......

By the way you all realise that you sent a letter to any TD or Minister and it goes through the hands of 2 or even 3 people before they see it...

What we should start to do is lobby the independents - and I'm thinking esp. Mildred Fox here (although see's a bit of a sap she has the potential to bring down the government ), she is in the heart of la-di-da rich ass computer user land -

if we could put some spin onto it to make it relevant to ordinary users who dont give a funk about the fact that Q3 is going to be 18's and out 3 months behind the rest of the world...

The Vaggabond of the Western World

Shiminay

Ok lads - I'll do up that standard letter and let you all know when it's available on my site. I got the idea from what tHE vAGABOND has mentioned above - the college fees thing <IMG SRC="http://lacerta.ucg.ie/boards/curlydav.gif&quot; WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=15 BORDER=0 ALT="@B^)&quot;>

Anyway...I'll most likely do it tonight and start off a new thread (maybe) with details on how to get it.

Dav
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Creeper

Hello?
I personally completely agree with this new legislation! How was I supposed to know how disturbingly scary Half-Life was??? Now I can't sleep without barricading all access points to my bedroom..... They're everywhere..... Must get to the surface...ngghhh....
/me chucks a satchel charge into the suspicious-looking airvent....

Dr_Teeth

Anonymous post. yawn. go away you silly person.

Teeth.

Bunnor

was the best post of the lot!!
scary games like that should have much more
warning!
Go on the 16 gamers vs the 10000 housewives
Just count your lucky stars that little billy hasn't cut his sister with an axe, or quake would be banned...remember Bolger and that film Child's Play 3?

gandalf

Errrr wasn't Quake banned in Germany or something !!!

Gandalf.

ButcherOfNog

everything even mildly violent gets banned in Germany, can't say I blame them, they're a dodgy lot those Germans, 1 game of Red Alert and they'd b invading russia again.

Fozzie

Ehhh, firstly to get matters straight where was this news revealed, a reliable source I hope. Anyway, as said above its going to fùck up retailers more than anyone and I think a push will be made, especially by Mr. Virgin, not to have it enforced. Do'nt bother me anyways...CD writers are DEADLYYYY.

Shinji

AFAICS, this legislation is being pushed in without drawing attention from retailers... the only reference we have to work from is an article in the Sunday Tribune last week, and umming and awwing from the DoJ. If this goes through on the quiet, once it's in law Sony and Virgin and all the rest of them can scream all they like, there's nothing can be done.

Here's an email I got today from Caroline Stokes, from Frontier Management who distribute most PC and N64 titles in this country...

Hi Robert

Good to see someone's taking an interest out there.

You have asked a lot of questions we're asking, and hope to find the
answers if and when the Film Censors reply to Robert McGraths letter
(you received a similar version on email).

It would seem from the small Sunday Tribune feature last week, that the
Film Classification law has been amended to include games, although the
editorial was very vague. According to the news story, the dept of Justice
has pushed this through for the Film Censors to deal with. They really
don't know what they're dealing with!

All in all, it's very vague, we acted on the ST's feature last week, and we
hope that if there is a law, someone will contact the games industry in
Ireland about it. If it has been pushed through, there is little anyone,
including Sony can do but go with the flow. In the back of my mind, I feel
that the feature may be some kind of mis-understanding (I can hope can't
I?), since I don't understand why anyone within the Dept of Justice would
go to this much trouble without involving the Irish games industry
especially when
there is a European procedure in place... we shall see.

Will keep you and the G4 team in the loop on any development, and would
appreciate any info from you it if you hear any more on the subject.

Best regards
Caroline


As you can see, we're still in the dark about this - I pulled all the strings I could find today, and nobody at the Film Censors office or the DoJ would talk to me about this - not "we don't know", mind, but a blank "we're not prepared to make a statement on that matter".

Hmmmmmmm. Hmmmmmm indeed.

Ja na,
Shin-[another case for the X Files?]-chan

Creeper

Btw...get up Dr.Teeth!
Anonymous? I introduced you to Quake ffs.
Unappreciative git.

Dr_Teeth

LOL! Well ok, the IPs were cool.. I'll give ya that.. <IMG SRC="http://lacerta.ucg.ie/boards/tongue.gif&quot; WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=15 BORDER=0 ALT=":P">

Teeth.

LoLth

Hmmmm,

I thought loads of games already came with a certificate rating... Wasn't carmageddon 18s, and wasn't Grand Theft Auto 15s or 18? What is wrong with that system? I agree that the games SHOULD have a certificate, I would hate to see the psychologists bill twenty years down the line for a 12 year old playing Resident evil!!

Was there any reason given for the Govt. abandoning that existing cert. system? Why do they think it necessary to spend money setting up ANOTHER censorship board, who , let's face it will be made up of an average age of 50 and still be considered 'young' and 'with it' and 'progressive'. I mean, look at the film board we have. I remember trying to go to see Crocodile Dundee in the Savoy and being turned away because it was 15's (One scene of a girl in a swimsuit kneeling beside a river!! Yeah, that'll corrupt anyone!), so I went to see the Golden CHild which was 12's (I was 14 I think). I still remember my sister's face when Eddie Murphy said **** eight times in fewer minutes!

Will quake end up being 18s because of the violence? Will resident Evil be pulled altogether because of the necromantic imagery and the scenes showing the results of biochemical experiments that might get people trying to make skinless apes at home?

Instead of yet another board the Govt. should allow the parents to see what is in the game before letting their child buy it (maybe a screen where 'select' bits are shown upon request by the store owners, larger fines for selling to underagers to dissuade 'dodgy' retailers) Instead it seems that they are determined to shoot themselves in the foot. Spend to set up a board. Lose revenue in taxes from retailers. Lose Vat revenue from the consumer who buys somewhere else. Can anyone see the gain? Apart from a few cushy jobs for the board members that is...

I think everyone should just give me control of the country. I can't mess it up too bad <IMG SRC="http://lacerta.ucg.ie/boards/smile.gif&quot; WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=15 BORDER=0 ALT=":)">

LoLth

Rev Hellfire

I cannt help but feel bad about all of this, its all my fault.
Look I never imagined that after 4 days of continous Quake, that like I'd flip out so much. Yea I know if I had hidden the bodies better no-one would have been the wiser, and the DOJ wouldnt be after us.
I mean like for GOD's sake they were only traveller kids, no-one was going to miss them.
I'll get in contact with the DOJ and send in my copy of Quake and my chainsaw, that should get them off our backs
Whitewash, you better do the same, or at least throw the pickaxe down that well with the other bobies, last time we play with those magic cards I tell you.

tHE vAGGABOND

I have a contact on National Exec of Fianna Fail - they are meeting on Thursday night. So I have arranged a meeting with him for tommorow night.

If someone could get me all the details regarding the bill, exceptions to it and so

I'll be on IRC most of the night.

Vagga

WhiteWashMan

its ok rev.....

the bodies are destroyed, the pick-axe has been hidden at the bottom of the well and the only way ppl will find out is if i do something terrible like tell loads of ppl about it

hold on. if i press submit reply that will post this message wont it?

DOH!

Shinji

LoLth... it isn't the ratings I'm worried by, we've had ratings on games for years supplied by ELSPA (see the first post in this thread). Quake is already 18s.

Its exactly as you say - it's the Govt getting the Irish Film Censors to do a job that is already being done effectively elsewhere - and also, I don't think the IFCB are _qualified_ to rate games.

Ja na,
Shin-chan

Rev Hellfire

Good to hear it whitey.
Don't worry about that last body, I took care of it before I went.
Lets just say if you in the Howth area in the next wee while, just stay away from the burgers and mince.

adra

um Quake's only 15's not 18's
well thats what it says on my copy

Karla

What I want to know is just exactly how those guys are planning to censor games. It's got to be very different to a film, where they just sit and watch it. Imagine if a game like Zelda had this ultra violent scene right at the end. Are they gonna have to play and finish the game before they can censor it?
Also, like DVD, a lot of games have a 'gore disable' feature, maybe this could be used as some sort of a loophole to get past the censors.

MindPhuck

This all sounds like complete toss. Put this to bed will yahs!

Shinji

**** off MP, u don't have to read if if u don't want to.... <IMG SRC="http://lacerta.ucg.ie/boards/tongue.gif&quot; WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=15 BORDER=0 ALT=":P">

Anyway, the way that the BBFC rate those games which ELSPA submit to them is usually to get someone to play through the game and tape it on video, which they watch. Sad, no?

Ja na,
Shin-chan

MindPhuck

Donno Shinji,

Maybe you should do something more time consuming with your time like play chess or hey, you could read the dictionary. This whole thing with B.B.F.C sounds like B.U.L.L. and they can Kiss my A.R.S.E and your can eat the N.U.T.S. from my S.H.I.T.E.

As always, charming <IMG SRC="http://lacerta.ucg.ie/boards/smile.gif&quot; WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=15 BORDER=0 ALT=":)">
Eric.

ButcherOfNog

R.O.F.L.M.B.O

TwoShedsJackson

lol, charmed I'm sure MP <IMG SRC="http://lacerta.ucg.ie/boards/smile.gif&quot; WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=15 BORDER=0 ALT=":)"> This thing'll probably never go through, people are always sh!teing on about rating or banning games, yadda yadda, nothing ever happens.

So chill. btw, Shinji, do you have Thrill Kill for the Playstation, now there's a game I'd like to see.

Shinji

Thrill Kill's development has officially been cancelled, but I believe that it's unoficially still being worked on by the team, and there is a version floating about that I'm hunting for.

I'll let you know if I'm successful <IMG SRC="http://lacerta.ucg.ie/boards/smile.gif&quot; WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=15 BORDER=0 ALT=":)">

As to the legislation, I'm still awaiting further word on any of the corresponadance I've sent out... again, I'll let ye know what comes of it, but there isn't a stunning amount I can do until I have full confirmation!

Mata ne!
Shin-chan