getting started on decks and djing

gazzer · 08-07-2003 11:47am #1

for the last while i have being toying with the idea of getting some decks and doing some mixing so that i could impress the mates at house parties etc. I just bought a house and have a spare room so have decided that now is the time to start buying the equipement. Does anyone here now of any cheap places where i could go to decks, mixer etc. Also any good websites on how to mix properly.

Cheers

Gaz

Emboss · 08-07-2003 11:50am

you will pick up a nice set in the buy n sell fairly cheaply, don't buy belt drive buy direct drive, your never going to learn how to synch or mix from a website get someone to show you or do what most people do pick it up themselves

Ste- · 08-07-2003 4:03pm

There's a book out atm called "How To Dj" suffices with enuff info but its really just practice practice and yet more practice.

You can pick the book up for €24.99 in HMV.

tman · 08-07-2003 6:00pm

yeah, bill brewsters book is supposed to be pretty good...

there's a program out there called 'virtual turntables'
the help file that comes with that is pretty handy, it explains downbeats & beatmatching in a fairly comprehendable way...

Lenny · 08-07-2003 6:45pm

Yea I heard that book is actualy supposed to be quite good.
Buy & sell is ok for deals, but make sure you take someone along that knows a bit or two about decks and always check the mixer to make sure its not gona start to leak on you next week or anythhing(ill explain later too sick now) also get direct drive.

Executive Steve · 20-07-2003 6:52pm

do what i did and get the ****test crappiest set of second hand belt drives and an eq less x-faderless mixer- it will wreck your head but persevere.... if you can learn to use a set up that ****ty and primitive then you will be a ninja when you get the proper gear. practise loads and loads and buy a tune every week... easy and good luck....
and dont waste your time on books and videos and **** like that. spend the money on tunes. if you need to find out how to dj from a book then you probably shouldnt try to learn to.

dood · 20-07-2003 6:56pm

Good site for someone starting out www.djsource.co.uk

tman · 20-07-2003 7:03pm

in all fairness tyranny, how the **** is he supposed to learn the basics?
my friends were absolutely no help to me, they didn't have a clue how to beat match etc when i started.
agreed, learning from a book is pretty dodgy, but unless you know a competent dj then its one of the few options you have.
just use the book/website/whatever until you have a bit of a clue what you're doing & your happy to go at it alone

mfield · 20-07-2003 7:29pm

Richer sounds seem to be the cheapest place to get a set of turntables, I personally have got Technics 1200s, they'll do the business, Vestax make good turntables too, I have never used them, so I can't comment on them. I have a Vestax 05 Pro mixer and it's the business, especially for scratching which I do alot, It's well layed out and the crossfader is sweet as a nut! YOu might want to go for a more effects based mixer for mixing though. Hope this helps.

Helix · 21-07-2003 1:21pm

Originally posted by gazzer
for the last while i have being toying with the idea of getting some decks and doing some mixing so that i could impress the mates at house parties etc

a word of advice... if thats the reason youre getting decks i strongly recommend you dont bother. coz i can guarentee you that after 6 months when you still cant consistently mix well youll get bored of the serious effort and committment required (as well as the massive financial burden of buying records) and most likely give up

do it for the love of the music, or dont do it

its not a dig, its the truth. if you really cant give it everything you possibly can then theres no point in buying decks

Helix · 21-07-2003 1:24pm

Originally posted by tman
in all fairness tyranny, how the **** is he supposed to learn the basics?

since when is putting beats together rocket science

djing is extremely self explanatory, its just frustrating coz it should in theory be the easiest thing in the world to do, but as we all know, for the first 5 or 6 months, its not

Helix · 21-07-2003 1:25pm

Originally posted by mfield
Vestax make good turntables too, I have never used them, so I can't comment on them

not a fan of vestax decks at all i must say, played out on them (pdx 2000s) a few times and theyre pretty gack

mfield · 21-07-2003 1:39pm

If you don't want to spend lots of money on buying vinyl, which is horrendously expensive these days you could always get Final Scratch, DJ Craze uses it, thinkin about gettin it myself, it's supposed to be the muts nuts! In the long run you could save money on buyin vinyl. It's alot cheaper in the US too.

Hope this helps.

Helix · 22-07-2003 12:05am

final scratch itself is cheap enough, but then you need a well decent laptop to run it with

mfield · 22-07-2003 12:36am

Originally posted by Helix
final scratch itself is cheap enough, but then you need a well decent laptop to run it with

If you're learning and not playing in any clubs (which is most likely the case), you don't need a laptop at all, a fairly up to date desktop PC or MAC will do the job nicely!

Emboss · 22-07-2003 9:05am

Originally posted by tman
in all fairness tyranny, how the **** is he supposed to learn the basics?
my friends were absolutely no help to me, they didn't have a clue how to beat match etc when i started.
agreed, learning from a book is pretty dodgy, but unless you know a competent dj then its one of the few options you have.
just use the book/website/whatever until you have a bit of a clue what you're doing & your happy to go at it alone

in all fairness if you can't pick it up after an hour of pissing about, then there isn't much hope for you at all, i don't know anyone who learned from a book or a website, how hard is it like ? drop > pitch > fade >drop >pitch >fade lol

Benbaz · 22-07-2003 2:27pm

To be honest mate if you’re looking to start Djing there’s only really a couple of things you need starting out.

1. Decks (obviously!!) Preferably direct drive but “not” essential. The one thing that is essential on decks for DJing is pitch control. The pitch control is the little slider that speeds up/slows down the platter by small increments to match the BPMs of each track. And the other thing you need is slipmats which are essential.

2. Mixer. It doesn’t have to be an all bells and whistles model. As long as it has 2 Channels that’s enough. It doesn’t even have to have a Cross-fader but it is better to go for one that has one.

3. Sound Source. i.e. Speaker and Amp. You don’t necessarily need to go for separates most people nowadays just use their home stereo and if you’re only bedroom mixing well then that’s all you need.

As far as getting a book to learn how to mix, don’t bother, you’ll only be wasting your money in my opinion, as someone already said, “Djing ain’t Rocket Science!!”
To get you started with mixing all you really need to know is what a Bar is in musical terms. A Bar is four beats in a song usually expressed in dance music by a kick/bass drum. Have a listen to a couple of tracks and note how they’re put together. You will notice that most songs follow a pattern of 4 bars i.e 16 beats and then a different noise/sound will be introduced on the 17th beat, therefore this is where you should bring in the first beat of the track that you’re trying to mix into the first track. This is in essence Beat-mixing. After grasping Beat-mixing everything after that will come to you by listening to other DJs or mix-tapes.

But if I can give you a bit of advice from someone that’s been Djing for over 10 years, the most important part of being a Djing in my opinion is not necessarily how great you are at mixing, because after all mixing is not that difficult, I think the mark of a good DJ comes down to track selection. A crowd will generally forgive a couple of dodgy mixes as long as the music is good.

Hope this was of some help!!

Good Luck.

B.

Helix · 22-07-2003 2:46pm

Originally posted by mfield
If you're learning and not playing in any clubs (which is most likely the case), you don't need a laptop at all, a fairly up to date desktop PC or MAC will do the job nicely!

doesnt seem very economical for space unless you happen to have a 10foot long desk in your room for the mixer, decks and pc. plus remember that the decks and mixer have to be pretty damn close to the pc for tune selection

plus final scratch doesnt run off windows, it has its own OS

Helix · 22-07-2003 2:46pm

Originally posted by Benbaz

1. Decks (obviously!!) Preferably direct drive but “not” essential

imo they are

milltown · 22-07-2003 2:57pm

Sound advice from Benbaz. I'll add my €2/100.
If you are only starting to buy records go easy on yourself, don't just go buying what you hear DJs mixing in the clubs. Get a few tunes with good clear beats, nothing too hectic, until you get the hang of beat mixing.
The 4 x 4 that Benbaz mentioned is the golden rule. I was frustrating myself for about two months before someone explained that to me, then I went fairly quickly from mixes sounding like a drumkit falling down the stairs to fairly proficient.
There is a chance that you won't have the time or the will to stick at it so only buy music you like. That way you can still enjoy listening to your tunes.
Try to focus on a particular style of music. It will mix together better and if you plan on getting some work you will find it easier if you can be pigeonholed.
Buy a couple of accapella tracks to practice reading the rythm without the beats. It is very satisfying to hear your own mix of music a and vocal b.

Benbaz · 22-07-2003 2:58pm

The point I was making is that you "can" get by with belt driven turntables especially if you're starting off and money is a factor. It really depends how dedicated you are and how much you want to get on in the short term. All that said, you would definitely have to move up to direct drives in the long term, but imo they are not essential starting off.

B.

Helix · 22-07-2003 9:10pm

with the low prices of introductory level direct drive decks there really is no point in gettin belts tho

Benbaz · 23-07-2003 8:33am

Originally posted by Helix
with the low prices of introductory level direct drive decks there really is no point in gettin belts tho

That's a fair enough point I suppose. I bought my 1210's close on ten years ago so I'm not really aware of how much of a difference there is at the moment between Direct Drive v Belts. There used to be a big difference!!

B.

Helix · 23-07-2003 2:38pm

there still is, belt drives are shockin decks to use

Benbaz · 23-07-2003 3:22pm

I mean't "price" difference!!

Executive Steve · 23-07-2003 9:11pm

but lets face it, if you can learn to mix and mix acceptably on a reeeeally ****ty set up, wobbly pitch controls, bent platters a mixer that crackles louder than you grannys fag-battered lungs of a sunday morning, walkman headphones and no cross fader or eq's then you are going to be a ninja when you get the proper gear.... plus lets face it, weve all seen people whove got wall to wall technics and posh boy mixers with fancy filter units fall on their backsides when presented with a setup so appalingly bad that theyre unable to keep it together... besides.... if you never drove a fiesta, you wouldnt know how nice a ferrari is....

Helix · 23-07-2003 9:24pm

Originally posted by [cm]tyranny
but lets face it, if you can learn to mix and mix acceptably on a reeeeally ****ty set up, wobbly pitch controls, bent platters a mixer that crackles louder than you grannys fag-battered lungs of a sunday morning, walkman headphones and no cross fader or eq's then you are going to be a ninja when you get the proper gear....

not true in the slightest, i know numerous people who basically wasted months/years on belt drive decks. they are absolutely no benefit to anyone, you wont learn how to mix on them. youll just get pissed off coz no matter what you do the tracks wont stay in time

Executive Steve · 23-07-2003 9:30pm

i disagree.... it *can* be done, and the experience you get in at least trying to get it done will make it all the sweeter when you get the whole thing down pat.... then again the guy who sadi that you shouldnt dj to impress at house parties said the most intelligent thing in this thread.... do it because you have to.

Helix · 23-07-2003 9:45pm

that was me who said that

Benbaz · 24-07-2003 8:24am

Originally posted by Helix
not true in the slightest, i know numerous people who basically wasted months/years on belt drive decks. they are absolutely no benefit to anyone, you wont learn how to mix on them. youll just get pissed off coz no matter what you do the tracks wont stay in time

I have to diasgree there. I learned to mix on a a set of belt drives way back when!! And I agree with you about Direct Drives being far superior, but I think you keep missing my point about it being possible to start off mixing with Belt Drives albeit not ideal but also not essential to have Direct Drives when starting off!

B.

Helix · 24-07-2003 2:40pm

ah yeh it is possible, but its gonna take 2 or 3 times as long to learn as itll take on a set of direct drive decks. then when you move over to direct drives youre talkin at least another 2-3 months before youre as good on them as you were on the belt drives coz you will not be in any way half used to the power of the torque

it can be done alrite, but theres absolutely no point when you can get a decent set of beginners direct drives for under 500

gazzer · 28-08-2003 10:37am

Guys i just wanted to say thanks a lot for all the advice. I am actually getting my decks, mixer etc today...finally. Really excited about it and cant wait to use them. Thanks again and i will let you know how i get on with them

The Beer Baron · 28-08-2003 1:14pm

The point I was making is that you "can" get by with belt driven turntables especially if you're starting off and money is a factor.

Neh! I startedon belt drives- they got well battered and don't really work no more- but hey! I learned.

Technics, or as someone else said, Vestax will take more punishment and all- really direct drive motors in general are more stable for "heavy" mixing- scratching, spinbacks, etc, etc.

I bought a crap 2 chanell mixer and a set of decks for around £350 back in the day. They were made by KAM and I thought I was the man with 'em.

The only thing about learning off them is that with them you push up to speed up the record and down to slow down. With Technics and nearly every other deck it's the opposite.

I've read thru and you've been given some good advice.

Best thing to do is just use 2 records which are fairly spartan music wise and try mix back and forth between the 2.

And listen to mix tapes- listen to lots of different styles of DJ's too-even if their music ain't your cup of tea you'll learn quick.
Then all you godda do is try and emulate what they're doing.

Of course it doesn't come easy but you'll get it.

Listen, try match the tempo with your +/- slider.
Now just find that 1st beat, and scratch it back and forth over the slipmats until you feel you're ready to let it spin then use your hand to stop or push the record forward to get it in perfect synch.

If you **** up then just do a spinback- the oldest DJ trick in the book. If you're lucky nobody'll notice and your mates'll think you're cool. (I love spinbacks!)

In honesty you'll learn more just pissin' about than reading it from a book. If you know any DJ's bonus- just watch 'em and copy what they do. Once you get into it you'll find that 6 hours has elapsed since you started when you thought it was only 5 minutes- your neighbours'll just love you!

Helix · 28-08-2003 11:25pm

eurgh! spinbacks! no easier way to completely WRECK a set

was at pete loop there on tuesday, top dj, technically one of the best ive seen, but f*cking hell the spinbacks were wrecking all the good he was doing

theres really no need for them

pyramid man · 29-08-2003 8:54am

well in my opinion. if you start on belt-driven and learn how to beatatch and all that on them, then you will be right quality by the time you start on direct driven decks.

Benbaz · 29-08-2003 10:42am

Originally posted by pyramid man
well in my opinion. if you start on belt-driven and learn how to beatatch and all that on them, then you will be right quality by the time you start on direct driven decks.

Well Thank You!! I am!!

Oh, and Helix, are you just gonna jump on everything that anybody says and rubbish it?? Grow up ffs!!! I'm starting to see where you got your tag line from!!!

B.

Cake Fiend · 29-08-2003 1:26pm

It could possibly be because he has a vague idea of what he's talking about.

Spinbacks are ****ing tired.
****ty cut-and-paste crap is not original anymore.
Twiddling the EQs like a plonker just takes everyone out of the music.
All these crappy 'DJ tricks' have been done to death and piss me off every time I hear them (especially from DJs that should know better).

Benbaz · 29-08-2003 1:41pm

Originally posted by Sico
All these crappy 'DJ tricks' have been done to death and piss me off every time I hear them (especially from DJs that should know better).

Whoopdee do da, if they piss "you off", I'm not too keen on them myself, but the fact is, Beer Baron was giving advice to a newbie and some0ne who hasn't even bought a set of decks yet!!!
And it's not as if any time soon he's gonna be playing to a packed club full of musical connesuir's like yourself and Helix!!
Give advice to guy rather than dissing everything everyboby else suggests!!!

B.

The Beer Baron · 29-08-2003 5:15pm

Spinbacks? Crap?!
Paah!

I suppose it depends on the type of music really.
I don't imagine it going down well in a garage set or whatever. [for the record I hate garage- record geddit? -sorry] Certainly not with trance music- because it breaks the tension of the song itseld.

I have my beloved Andy Weatherall tape of course, which is one of my most prized posessions- I really gotta sort out a way to rip it. It works well in hard (as in HARD) house sets and real techno- listen to Jeff Mills, Richie Hawtin- when they let a spinback fly it's like the world's been whipped out from beneath you. As opposed to some kid in their bedroom who does one on their beltdrives as the needle hops and gouges along the groove and think they're **** hot.

I was that kid.
Never underestimate the power of the spinback.

Cake Fiend · 29-08-2003 6:37pm

I was giving advice - on what not to get into the habit of doing.

The Beer Baron · 30-08-2003 3:20pm

Yeah- fair 'nuff.

Helix · 30-08-2003 11:20pm

Originally posted by Benbaz
Oh, and Helix, are you just gonna jump on everything that anybody says and rubbish it?? Grow up ffs!!! I'm starting to see where you got your tag line from!!!

B.

giving someone advice like "if you **** it up do a spinback" is hardly helping anyone tho is it. theyre the most amature sounding things ever. its all well and good hawtin or mills doin one when theyre using a shed load of echo or delay on them coz thats actually adding to the set. but theyre not the kinda thing ANYONE should be doing very often at all coz they detract from the set youre buliding

take fergie for example, from the sounds of things hes spending far too much time counting his money to bother mixing so at the end of every tune he just spins it back and lashes in another. complete and utter nastiness to listen to

getting started on decks and djing

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