Looking for a better than decent light meter

DadaKopf

I'm looking for a high quality digital light meter in the region of €200. Spot, incident, flash, whatever. I'm not so sure how all this works anyway. I mean, long term, I'm thinking about investing in an MF cam, but right now, I'm concentrating on building up useful accessories.

What make is best for the price range? Sekonik? Gossen?

Samson

What you want is a Polaris II or Dual 5.
Has Flash, ambient/incident, reflective and spot metering.
They are as accurate and as feature-laden as the big names at a fraction of the price.



They can be bought new for around £180.00sterling or less.
I'm in work at the moment so don't have access to my room full of photographic mags, but will check at home later. I actually recall seeing an ad for a Polaris meter recently in either Professional Photographer or Practical Photography recently. I think the price was £159.00sterling but I'm not sure if that was inclusive or exclusive of VAT @ 17.5%

Samson

Have the ad in Practical Photography in front of me, the price for a Polaris Dual 5 is £159.99sterling inclusive of VAT.
Expect to pay between £5.00 and £10.00sterling for delivery.

www.linkcameras.co.uk
Telephone: 0044 23 8065 2076

DadaKopf

I had a look at the Dual 5 today in Gunne's. It's about €350 there - they also said about Sekonik that they're overpriced here because the sole importer fixes the price - no competition. But, they said, the Polaris is just as good. Mind you, that Sekonik Dual 5 equivalent is dead sexy lookin'.

Um, how exactly do they work? As in, returning the reading to the camera.

norma

The meter gives a readout (either in EV or f/stop & shutter speed combination), which you then enter into your camera manually.

Honestly, if you are aware of the pitfalls of the in-built camera meters and know how to overcome them, an external meter isn't much different. The incident readings are different, but are easily duplicated using your camera's in-built reflected light meter and a grey card. The other exceptions are if you are using studio flash, or need the spot meter to work the zone system (although your camera may have a spot meter built in also). I guess what I'm saying is that, unless you really need a handheld meter, you may be able to do without it and save some cash towards that MF kit you want.

If you have already considered those things, then maybe you could try looking for a used meter? I bought mine used and got a great deal on it. I see that mxv have a good deal on a used Sekonic L-358 at the moment. However, that requires an extra attachment if you want spot metering. Ffordes also have competitive prices on meters, going on what you say you've been seeing in Dublin.

Norma.

DadaKopf

Actually, I've got another question. Also thinking of getting a 50mm lens (fixed). I can get a 50mm f1.8 EF for about €150 or a 50mm f1.4 USM for three times that much. Apart from obvious differences like more lens elements, a distance guage, metal bracket and wider aperture, how much of a difference is there *really* between EF and USM when it comes to auto-focusing?

DadaKopf

Norma: that's what they said in the shop, too. Learn you're camera's idiosyncrasies. When you do, the best thing to do is to stop up or down your camera's ISO and leave it at that.

Now, what was this about a grey card?

See, my camera's Evaluative Metering is awful. I use partial metering all the time, which is 20% (often times much too large). I haven't found a completely satisfactory way around its metering yet nor have I managed to get together a proper strategy for doing it. My photos seem to become more and more depressing each time I shoot with it so I just stick with my Lomo for now.

Samson

Originally posted by DadaKopf
Actually, I've got another question. Also thinking of getting a 50mm lens (fixed). I can get a 50mm f1.8 EF for about €150 or a 50mm f1.4 USM for three times that much. Apart from obvious differences like more lens elements, a distance guage, metal bracket and wider aperture, how much of a difference is there *really* between EF and USM when it comes to auto-focusing?

Recent photo.net article on that very subject here:
http://www.photo.net/equipment/canon/ef50/

Make sure you read the comments too.

Samson

Originally posted by DadaKopf
Now, what was this about a grey card?

18% grey is the average tone for most scenes apparently.

And as all camera meters are calibrated for 18% grey reflectance value you will find the only truly accurate way to get a good ambient light reading when photographing a scene with more or less than 18% grey tones is to take a reading from a piece of grey card with 18% reflectance.

For example if you are taking a photo of someone wearing a white tee-shirt you will find that the shot will be under-exposed and the tee-shirt will look grey. Therefore the only way to get the tee-shirt to come out white is to over-expose or put a grey card in front and take a meter reading from that.

Conversely, if you are taking a shot of someone in a black suit the camera will over-expose, making the suit look grey. Hence, you need to under-expose or use a grey card.

Hope I have not confused the issue too much.

DadaKopf

Thanks for that.

No, no, you haven't confused me at all. Usually when I know I'm reading off a white or a black surface, I'll over or underexpose by half a stop. Maybe this isn't enough, which is why I'm asking. I can never be sure how much to compensate by.

What sort of grey card are we talking about? Grey as in, print out something on my printer which is 18% grey?

DadaKopf

God, that review would make me consider not buying either lens and holding out for a three grand Hasselblad or something. My god. Now I don't know what to do. I just wanna take nice pictures with no flare, no distortion and strong colours. And I'm poor.

DadaKopf

Is the lens really sharp, though? Is the EF worth the €150, do you think?

norma

Now, what was this about a grey card?

There are two basic kinds of light meter: reflective and incident. All inbuilt camera meters are reflective; they measure the light reflecting off a subject. An incident meter reads light falling onto a subject.
As Samson described, the downfall of any meter is that it assumes "average" illumination/reflectance i.e it assumes your subject is exactly half-way between white and black - that is, 18% grey.
Samson explained very well the weakness of this assumption, and how best to overcome that using an 18% grey card and a reflective meter. You should be able to pick up a grey card at a good photo shop. Kodak's cost about $15 here in the U.S., but you can get off-brand ones for about $5. If you meter off that and use it correctly (instructions come with it), you should get the best exposure for all tones in a scene (unless, of course, you want to manipulate those tones through exposure adjustment).
An incident light meter has a white dome over it that filters the light so that the light hitting the sensor approximates the same level of light as that reflected off an 18% grey object. If you take a reading of a scene with an incident meter, and another off a grey card (in the same light) with your reflective meter, the two readings will be the same.

You say you adjust exposure 1/2 stop if your subject is white or black. I'd say, depending on how much detail you want to retain, you should adjust by about 1 to 2 stops, depending on what kind of film you're using. Also, even cameras of the same brand vary a lot, so you need to test (with slide film) and learn how your meter operates.

Finally, I would say the best way to decide between the EF and USM lenses is to decide what you'd use it for. The USM enables faster, quieter focusing. So, if that's important to you, it might be worth the extra money. My only non-USM lens is a wide-angle I use for landscapes, so quick focusing is not important to me, and I absolutely love the lens.


Hope that helps,
Norma.

DadaKopf

Adjusting exposure by one or two stops, depending on film used? Could you put a little more detail on this, please? One stop for 400, two stops for 100? Something like that?

I'll buy an 18% grey card.

norma

What I mean is that you need to consider the latitude of your film. B&W print film has more latitude than colour print, which has more latitude than slide film. So, you are able to capture a greater range of tones on B&W film than on slide film. You need to take that into consideration when adjusting your exposure for a particular subject. For example, if you adjust exposure to get more detail in the shadows, is that going to blow out the highlights in such a way that is unacceptable? Or, will the film have enough latitude to record both highlights and shadows the way you want to? Almost everything in photography involves a compromise; you just need to decide what you need to keep and what you're willing to let go.

I do advise buying a grey card rather than printing one yourself. For example, if the paper you use is too smooth, it is more reflective, and that may throw off the meter.

norma

Also, I may be stating the obvious here, but an easy way to overcome the lack of a spot meter in your camera is to use a telephoto lens to meter precise areas of your scene. Then, recompose with whatever lens you want using those readings. For example, f/8 allows the same amount of light to reach your film, regardless of whether you're using a 500mm or a 50mm lens, and the shutter speed is obviously the same.
(While the actual size of the aperture changes depending on focal length, that is just to compensate for light fall-off in longer lenses. The intensity of light reaching the film is the same.)
Norma.

FinoBlad

I would advise you take your shot at the cameras meter reading and bracket two stops up and down [irrespective of film speed]and take detailed notes for the next few dozen rolls of film you use. You will see a pattern emerging, especially if you're developing your own film i.e. you are controlling that variable.

Buying a light meter is a great idea but if you are stuggling with your in-camera metering as much as you say you are then I think you should put if off for now.

Learn to read your scenes and learn what lighting conditions "fool" electronic metering. You will nead to know this anyway for using a handheld light meter and also if you buy a [manual] hasselblad or rent a LF camera as you have posted.

BTW I have a Seconic L608 [bought used off a newbie that couldnt figure out how to use it] and highly recommend it.

DadaKopf

So, 50mm EF or not?

DadaKopf

Right, I bought that fookin 50mm. It better be worth it.

Dukeduker

Originally posted by norma
What I mean is that you need to consider the latitude of your film. B&W print film has more latitude than colour print, which has more latitude than slide film.

Not strictly true - B/W film has less latitude than colour print film, when all is said and done. This has much to do with the process and printing of an image, as it does with the actual film itself

norma

Kodak Tri-X has a latitude of 9 stops. I have negatives with detail in both extremes of a 9-stop range shot on Tri-X. Colour film can't really compete with that. Even if a colour film did record tonal detail in those ranges, it could not record the actual colour accurately. I tend to use the older type emulsions. The newer T-grained B&W films are closer in latitude to colour print films alright.
But I agree that it does have a lot to do with the printing also. You can burn and dodge to more extreme measure with B&W than you can in colour (because of the colour shifts that would be caused). Also, the ability to work with different contrast grades can help bring out detail in B&W prints that is not possible in colour printing.
Norma.