Thinking of changing bikes

Stephen

At the moment I've got a 1999 Yamaha Virago 125, with new tyres (on it about a month and a half), new chain and sprockets and a new battery, and oil changed 2 weeks ago
Its got about 13000 miles on the clock and is in fairly good condition besides a small dent in the fuel tank which is not very noticeable.
I want to change it for a second hand Honda Varadero 125 - would like to get something bigger but can't afford the insurance. I've been qouted about €750 for insurance on the Varadero, which doesn't strike me as too bad. I'm paying €711 on the virago at the moment. (20, full A1, 40% NCB).
What I want to know is how much is the Virago worth these days? And how much should I go paying for a 2000/2001 Varadero? Judging from prices asked in the Buy and Sell, 99 viragos are priced at about €2500, but who knows for sure with that lot
I'm torn between looking for a privately owned varadero and selling off the Virago or going for a dealer and probably getting robbed - but the convenience of not having to sell the virago privately might be worth it. I need transport so I can't afford to sell the virago before getting a replacement, and finding a few grand without selling it might be a problem, so the trade-in route looks best for me.

How much d'yis think a dealer would give for the Virago as a trade-in ?

Pic of the Virago:


edit: eh, since when have images been disabled on motors?

Stephen

*cough*
*bump*

Local bike shop (Baldricks in Kilkenny) haven't any in stock but they know someone selling a 2002 model - 4000 euros though, abit rich for me

Krusty_Clown

Have a look at RedLine in Rathdrum (Co. Wicklow).

They have a '01 125cc Varadero for €3,900..

bugs

Forgive me for asking, but why in gods name are varadero 125's so expensive. They're utterly terrible bike/dirt bike hybrids. 3900 for that and the nsr and rs can bearly go for 2000, i know its entirely the insurance. But sweet mother, thats taking the piss.

seamus

Originally posted by bugs
Forgive me for asking, but why in gods name are varadero 125's so expensive. They're utterly terrible bike/dirt bike hybrids. 3900 for that and the nsr and rs can bearly go for 2000, i know its entirely the insurance. But sweet mother, thats taking the piss.

They seem to be a bit of a beast (as 125's go) from the specs I've found, but I've never heard of one before. Looking at it, I'd certainly go for it well before an nsr or rs in the 125 bracket. Has anyone used/owned one of these? Is it powerful (for a 125)? Or does it sound all tinny and nasty like so many wannabe racer 125s?

I was thinking I was stuck on the Marauder for another two years, but I may go and have a look at one of these babies when I get my degree.

Any luck so far munch?

I think 125 cruisers don't go for much second hand because they can be gotten very cheap brand new (relatively). Plus they don't last too well over long distances. My 2001 Marauder already had 33,000 km on it (perfect condition though), so I shudder to think what it'll get when I sell it.

bugs

A beast?
A whatnow?

Its a 4 stroke twin cylinder 125, 142 dry weight which is enormous. You definetly won't be breaking any speed limits, cos it won't be able to go that fast, or "fast" at all. Thats 4000 for a bike that will be outperformed by most 125 two stroke scooters. I haven't looked for a horsepower figure but bearing in mind its a 4 stroke and a twin, i'd imagine its in the 12 or 13hp region....we have a mower with more power than that!

Stephen

I'm informed by someone who owns one (Swifty on the boards here) that the top speed is about 75MPH - enough for me anyways.

I'm not looking for a "beast" of a bike, and I like the look of the Varadero. It fits me perfectly, being 6 feet tall, whereas my virago's footpegs are a bit too close for comfort. And 3900 is a bit steep second hand

Image:

Swifty

It suits me really, I'm not trying to break any speed limits. That's 75 restricted and mine's fairly restricted (6 speed bike, but mine wont go past fourth). Yeah it's bloody pricey but it's damn comfortable. Huge for a 125 though, especially for my first bike.

bugs

I was just amused that someone could consider it a beast. Not particularly to my taste but i can see the point behind why people would buy them, but not for 4000 second hand. That would buy you a lovely 400!

Stephen

Yeh, 4000 is too rich for me

darkmaster2

that varadero looks sweet..

im looking for a 125 - 250 virago,
Cork area

freakfm@eircom.net

seamus

Originally posted by bugs
I was just amused that someone could consider it a beast.

You didn't read my post......

They seem to be a bit of a beast (as 125's go)

75MPH is fast for a 125 (and that's restricted). Plus it looks damn sweet.

Stephen

Well it is for a 4 stroker

MojoMaker

It uses the engine from the Shadow 125, which as you'll remember is the best 125cc v-twin of the current bunch of miserable offerings. A beast it ain't but gotta be more fun to ride than a Marauder/Virago/Dragstar etc.

bugs

Originally posted by seamus

75MPH is fast for a 125 (and that's restricted).

No, no its not fast, nor is that the restricted speed, if someone is claiming it is, their speedo is seriously overreading.

Swifty

80mph is the max speed for Varaderos.. Roughly 80 anyway just under it. I was just doing 80 on it today on a flat out empty road, my speedo is hardly "over-reading" ?

Stephen

Originally posted by Swifty
It suits me really, I'm not trying to break any speed limits. That's 75 restricted and mine's fairly restricted (6 speed bike, but mine wont go past fourth).

Just checked the honda website there - it says the gearbox is only 5 speed? (XL125V Varadero, right?).

bugs

Originally posted by Swifty
80mph is the max speed for Varaderos.. Roughly 80 anyway just under it. I was just doing 80 on it today on a flat out empty road, my speedo is hardly "over-reading" ?

That'd be pretty reasonable, but it definetly won't go anywhere near 75-80 in restricted form is what i meant.

batman_oh

160kg dry and about 14bhp it will be quicker than the virago but not by a long way, and i have never heard of a restricted varadero 125, why would it be restrcited, that makes absolutely no sense, doesnt make enough power to have restrictors fitted
rs has 33bhp and weighs 114kg,nsr 29bhp and 132kg just to put the beast thing in perspective,
nice tall bike decent pull from down low coz its a twinner but they go for insane money 2nd hand due to the rs and nsr bein so expensive to insure, why not have a look at tdr, its a bit faster and cheaper

Stephen

What insurance group is the TDR in anyway? Varadero and Virago are both group 2, and my insurers have confirmed that they'll just charge me a once-off 20 euros to have my policy changed over.

Stephen

Further googling informs me that the TDR is a group 2 machine, but that its also a 2-stroker. And that they go new for about the same price as a Varadero. Heh. Wonder how they compare for resale values. What kinda speed would you get out of the TDR?

Hibernian's website tells me its the same price for insurance as the Varadero and Virago.


meep

batman_oh

tdr should do a true 85 varadero prob just over 70(true), honda nsr75 is faster than varadero i know this coz i know some1 who owned both, the tdr would be significantly quicker aswell, it has about 22bhp and weighs crap all, great for traffic too

Stephen

Hmm, considering the TDR now. Uglier than a Varadero, but those headlights are cool. Second hand ones seem cheaper than Varaderos. Must contact the insurance broker again, can't say I trust hibernian's website

I assume you don't have to manually mix the petrol and 2-stroke oil in the TDR?

Kazujo

The oil is the same as a moped just keep topping it up. Both the varadero and the TDR are bout the same in insurance and speed I have friends on each of them. Personlaly I'd go for the varadero better to have a bit of weight in the bike plus the V twin 4 strok engine makes a nicer noise.

Stephen

Yeah... but the TDR's seem so much cheaper for second hand models. People are looking for around 4 grand for Varaderos, which is just a bit out of my league - probably just due to them being newer models. Must go look at the buy n sell and see what people are looking for for 00 reg TDRs.

Kazujo

That could be because of the 2 stroke engines plus some of them could be really old. although if your short of cash you might have no choice.

Stephen

Well what I would like to do is trade in my Virago for one, to save me the hassle (and time with no transport) of selling privately. Any idea approximately what kind of money i'd have to throw after a '99 Virago to trade against a '00 or so TDR?

Stephen

Any waterford heads around? Give me directions to a few bike shops ... I'm gonna head down on Monday and see what pre-owned stuff the dealers have in stock.

MojoMaker

Originally posted by batman_oh
tdr should do a true 85 varadero prob just over 70(true), honda nsr75 is faster than varadero i know this coz i know some1 who owned both, the tdr would be significantly quicker aswell, it has about 22bhp and weighs crap all, great for traffic too

Oh Lordy...the TDR (like all 125's) is restricted to sub 15bhp as per licence restrictions for category A1. The reason the Varadero is so expensive is because it is the best bike in the 125cc street/roadster class. You might get 75mph out of one going downhill with the wind behind you. Same for restricted NSR125 and any other you care to mention.

Have you thought about looking around for a well-kept Honda Rebel 125 or 250? Better bet than a Virago surely?

Stephen

I'm confining myself to group 2 bikes. Insurance is bad enough as is. Honda Rebel 125 is group 3 to the best of my recollection. No idea what group the 250 falls into.

MojoMaker

Odd that, if you think about it. Anyway the Rebel is quite a small bike, probably wouldn't suit you if you are anything about about 5'7.

Choosing between Varadero and TDR I'd have to say Varadero, it will also hold it's value better. Plus you do without the need to add oil every few fills and it will feel like a bigger bike, be more comfortable, and handle pillions better. Screen is bigger and will be a better bike to drive in the bad weather. That's why they cost more than TDR's.

Stephen

I'm about 6 ft.

New, both of them cost about the same amount, but 2nd hand Varaderos do seem to be worth more than the TDR's as you said.

bugs

Originally posted by MojoMaker
Oh Lordy...the TDR (like all 125's) is restricted to sub 15bhp as per licence restrictions for category A1. The reason the Varadero is so expensive is because it is the best bike in the 125cc street/roadster class. You might get 75mph out of one going downhill with the wind behind you. Same for restricted NSR125 and any other you care to mention.

What in sweet jesus tap-dancing christ are you talking about. No irish motorcycle shop sells restricted 125's, why would they restrict it to A1 license range when no one that can't get a A license could possibly afford the bike or the insurance. I remember asking if my bike was restricted when i bought it 2 years ago, and being laughed at. I've never seen a restricted TDR/NSR/RS, ppl just aren't stupid enough to buy them, so retailers aren't stupid enough to restrict them.

batman_oh

restrcited nsr 125s are now on sale but that is a restriction to lower the insurance group
a1 licence only covers 12bhp and lower, the varadero is 15 full power, obviously u do not understand how engines work
2 strokes can produce nearly twice the power of the equivalent 4 stroke engine(works out about 175% generally)
the varadero is a 4 stroke v-twin which would produce even less peak power than a 4 stroke inline engine, just more low range torque, it is 15-16bhp full power and is not in existance in restricted form as it doesnt require it, if its restrcited by any1 it is to 12bhp from its 16, nsr gets restricted to 12bhp from 29
show me a full power varadero then, and ill show u what a fast 125 does to it

MojoMaker

Originally posted by bugs
What in sweet jesus tap-dancing christ are you talking about. No irish motorcycle shop sells restricted 125's, why would they restrict it to A1 license range when no one that can't get a A license could possibly afford the bike or the insurance. I remember asking if my bike was restricted when i bought it 2 years ago, and being laughed at. I've never seen a restricted TDR/NSR/RS, ppl just aren't stupid enough to buy them, so retailers aren't stupid enough to restrict them.

When I say 'restricted', I am not referring to the manufacturer producing an engine and then choking it back to a specific output. When I say restricted I am referring to being bound by law to not producing more than 15hp, as per legal requirement of A1 licence category. The TDR makes 14hp, the Varadero makes 15hp, the Shadow makes 15 hp. Yamaha's DT makes 12hp, KMX125 makes 11hp. It's not that they make these engines in 25hp form and then choke back power figures to suit. That's what these engines make...full stop. Why it's pointless to buy a 125 unless you are bound by the A1 licence.

So, understand the difference between physical restriction (i.e. tampering) and restricted (i.e. bound) by law.

The NSR and RS were never intended to be produced as low power learner 125 bikes. They both make in or around 30hp as standard, but *can* be physically restricted to sub-15hp to appeal to A1 licence holders (who promptly get rid of the restriction). A1 licence is <= 11kw/15hp.

Btw - Bugs, I sell bikes for a living.

Stephen

Yeah, I've got a full A1 and a provisional A. I'm sticking to low power 125's for insurance purposes - much lower quotes for A1 bikes because of the full licence.

bugs

Originally posted by MojoMaker
Btw - Bugs, I sell bikes for a living.

A huge percentage of ppl in bike shops are morons, i'm not saying you are a moron, but i have encountered a few.

Kazujo

The only restriction that affects your insurance is if it was done by the manufacturer before it was sold. So if you restrict an NSR 125 or RS you can "legally" drive it on an A1 license but it's still group 7 insurance!

batman_oh

nice post there but its all bollox
the varadero is full power
a honda cb250 only makes 22bhp, thats not restricted
a varadero is not and never will be restricted, because its a feeble 4 stroke 125 engine it cant make anytin more than about 20 bhp
the fact that its a vtwin reduces the potential to make power even further, therefore its 15, this is it full power the only way it is ever sold anywhere
for example an aprilia rsv100r makes 115 bhp at the crank
a ducati 998r makes about 125
an r1 makes 152
the difference is an r1 is an inline 4
v twins cannot create the same peak power
a 2 stroke 250 makes about 65 bhp at the crank
this is the same or slighly more than a 400cc 4 stroke
so usin your brain u will see that a 2 stroke 125 will create a lot more power than a 4 stroke v twin125
also most people ive encountered in bike shops know sweet **** all really and will lie thru their asses to make a sale
a bloke i know owned a varadero and sold it coz it was too slow, he bought a honda nsr75 which he said was far quicker and more fun, and they aint quick

s10

Yamaha dt vs tdr dt hands down

Do kawi still do a kdx
cause thats a sweety

& suziki tsr or ts i cant remember camoflage seat

for a 6 footer
all of the above

s10

lol bbbaaahahahah
only if it was free