paying a licence fee and then paying agin to view RTE on sky.

loftus

I E mailed RTE asking them why we pay a TV licence and then have to pay again to view them on sky digital.

This is what thay said:

RTE's terrestrial transmission service is the only
system that guarantees free to view channels nationally.
Viewers who avail of the delivery of multi-channel
television on cable pay their cable operators an annual
subscription and on the same, non-discriminatory, basis
viewers wishing to avail of the signal from Sky Digital
subscribe to the Sky package.

Regards
Nina Ward
RTE Information Office

maisflocke

Its logical really.

You pay cable fees & licence fees to the service provider if you are cabled up,
You pay satellite fees & licence fees to the service provider if you have a dish.
Satellite does have an advantage because some broadcasters are not part of any package, but RTÉ is not in that position at this time.

Skys satellite set-up is actually really only satellite cable on which RTÉ have obtained free carriage on this platform.
RTÉ could of course go it alone like the BBC, but then they would have to rent out transponder space from Astra or similar, and then pay Sky money for an EPG listing for the benifit of anyone with a Sky dodgybox. (lTV paid something in the region of £17M - which includes enycryption & EPG listing) Due to the fact that RTÉ have once again reported losses (€56M or something like that?) I reckon they could not actually afford to do that.

watty

Oh I have spent long on Phone and Email to RTE.

They think (or claim to think) that the only Satellite viewers are Pay TV viewers thus Satellite = cable so no problem.

They seem amazed that anyone would bother with Satellite for Free to Air TV.

So by RTE logic the only people with Sky will be at least on Family Pack so free carriage is a good deal.

The "Bottom Line" is that their accountants watch the "Bottom Line" more than they are concerned about the VERY poor distribution of RTE, NET2, TG4 (And TV3 they don't care about) via Off Air.

They did lose over 50M last year. So while I disagree with RTE and Agree with you, it is a very valid view.

Unfortuately no-one in Ireland decides which Package RTE or TG4 is in or much we get charged.

According to Comreg and RTE it is entirely up to Sky. Sky could decide tomorrow to charge extra or only give it in Sky World. You don't get any Irish TV channels in Value, Popular (poor vaulue and un popular) or Knowledge packs.

Considering how many people (Over 50%) get noisy, ghosted or interference prone RTE or none at all, Satellite is an ideal solution.

But people have too many years been educated by totally dreadful Cable and MMDS pictures to accept current level of off air service from RTE because it is "better".

I have 5 Satellite receivers and only one with a subscription (at the moment, sometimes I have NO sub).

Over 600 Free (legally) TV and over 500 Free (legally) Radio.

RTE has had BBC competition for 40 years. For some reason the FTA move of BBC on Satellite has made them realise this. Up till now they have acted as if a small elite minorty watchs ITV and BBC wasting money duplicating British TV output.

We can but hope that 40 years late Donneybrook wakes up to reality.

loftus

Thanks for that watty. Every thing you say is what I am thinking. That is why I contacted RTE.

Can I ask you are you in the trade or is it just a hobby. Cos you seem to know a hell of alot about satellite and the like. Just a hobby for me but I dont think I could match up to your knowledge.

Keep up the good work!

watty

The "day job" is swatting spam and writing Programs / Database and stuff like that.

It probabily easier to make money emptying bins than selling Satellite Recievers or Installing them.

Nowadays it's a hobby. Of course if anyone has a good pension scheme, nice environment, and pays well I'll happily design Synthesizers, PIN diode switched thingys and etc again.

-- switching off modesty mode ---
I probably know more than many in the "Trade". Few tradesmen or installers are qualified Communications Engineers.

I used to operate, maintain, design, build, install Broadcast, Studio and RF Industrial Gear covering Audio, Video, Microwave and VHF.

I also worked as a Telecomms Design Engineer designing and leading a team developing Analog and Digital inter Central Office Protocol Translators. You *REALLY* don't want to have to figure out the specs for that kind of stuff.

Iv'e been a Radio Ham too since 1972 and had a Highly Commended" Project in 1971 at the "Aer Lingus" Young Scientist thingy in the RDS. It was proposing point to point Digital TV transmission using modulation of laser light. One of the Judges was something like and RTE Chairman..
"Very imaginative" He mused "Of course we'll never have Digital TV and communication using lasers is very unlikely.."



It wasn't long after that Chong or someone like that demonstated laser communication on fibre optics (I didn't think of the fibres.. I was thinking towers and laser replacing Microwave dishes.. Of course you can buy that now too).

The BBC was using Digital signals routinly carrying sound piggy backing in the analog Sync pulses of video internally by 1977 when I was working there. They and others had proved feasibility of Digital TV by then too, though domestic use was a long way off.

I know nothing about exact details of Nicam, except it has its own carrier and is digital. I'm sure a lot of what BBC learnt about SoundInSyncs Digital system was used though.


I once accidently replaced BBC Schools with a RTE test card the day after a Unionist Politician in 1978 had said RTE transmission in NI was not technically possible. A few months later Divis retransmitted the (new then) Longford/Midlands Transmitter, on a night that RTE was having late Film and BBC NI had closed early.

The way transmitters pickup another one and retransmit automatically when the studio feed ends was changed after that!
(Normally it would have picked up Scotland and after a while of no signal timed out).

In those days if you had a Umatic VCR (betamax & VHS just about to be released) and a TX near Crystal Palace yoou probabily could have kept up the entire BBC broadcast system *Except* Crystal Palace if you Popped on the air just after Closedown.

It was done in Japan in Late 70s.

You can't do it now as they have added "signatures" the rebroadcast receivers look for.

I've wondered idly how good the security is in Donnybrook where they uplink RTE1, Net2 TG4 and TV3 to Astra 2D. (Cheaper and MUCH easier than hijacking a Satellite with your own €20,000 ground station.).

sceptre

Originally posted by loftus
RTE's terrestrial transmission service is the only
system that guarantees free to view channels nationally.

"Guarantees" eh?

I can't pick up watchable[1] RTE where I live without using a satellite or cable delivery system. Chorus are boils on humanity's backside, hence I use Sky. I don't live in the Black Valley - I live in Limerick city centre. Obviously I could climb on the roof (five floors from the ground including the basement drop) and place an aeriel there but well, I can't. Hence my only method of getting RTE news and endless damned repeats of Keeping Up Appearances is by using Sky. The minimum cost to the likes of me getting RTE is €150 anually plus €27 monthly. Obviously I get more than RTE with Sky but the bottom line is that the minimum charge for getting RTE here is €474 annually. The equivalent minimum cost of getting the BBC in the UK over the same delivery system would be far less.

Originally posted by watty
I once accidently replaced BBC Schools with a RTE test card the day after a Unionist Politician in 1978 had said RTE transmission in NI was not technically possible.

Done in style as well.


[1]I'm using a fairly loose definition of "watchable". I'm not talking a little snow here. Making out whether it's a person on screen or a snuffleupaguss would do.

carrolls

quote:

---

Originally posted by watty
I once accidently replaced BBC Schools with a RTE test card the day after a Unionist Politician in 1978 had said RTE transmission in NI was not technically possible.

---

Watty you did our country a great service, making their faces even redder than they already were.:D

watty

Yes I can SEE the darned Woodcock hill "run on torch batteries" repeater here and I have an aerial system on roof and low noise mast amp that on Keepers would probabily get BBC!

That gives a "just acceptable" picture.

Urlan I noticed had a notice on their pocket LCD TV
"Requires external aerial. May rquire aerial on Roof." At least they honest about it.

Nationwide reception is appalling. That a major population centre like Limerick (include the bits not in City that in reality any other place would be City and it is 3rd largest) can't use set-top aerials is mad.

TV3 has only 80% coverage.

Some places need VHF *AND* UHF aerial to get RTE1 and TG4 (ironically mostly where folks might speak Irish).

RTE only went on Sky after DTT was taken off them and the DTT looked like failing. Even then they fell for the "Free Encryption / Free carriage" ploy of Sky. Sky arn't alturests. If sky offer free that means that they make money out of it (better able to compete NTL / Chorus and maybe do an NI deal down the road..).

Lots OF poorer / smaller places that here have National TV on Satellite either FTA or with a reasonable annual fee (e.g. Swiss).

I don't buy RTE's FTV card too expensive excuse. Not If Sky is offering it FREE!!

Lets stop wasting money on US / UK imports if the rights is the problem. Do an Irish channel on Satellite with Irish rights stuf.. Of yes we had that and it got the plug pulled by RTE.

Why buy US and UK programs we can see on BBC/ITV anyway?

Richard

Originally posted by watty
If sky offer free that means that they make money out of it (better able to compete NTL / Chorus and maybe do an NI deal down the road..).

One solution to people here in Norn Iron who want RTE might be Chorus. Chorus won a franchise to broadcast MMDS here and it may be easier for them to broadcast RTE than Sky from a legal point of view.

I don't buy RTE's FTV card too expensive excuse. Not If Sky is offering it FREE!!

Are they? How would Sky benefit from an ROI FTV scheme? They would get more people signed up for the dish and box, but would they make much money then?

Why buy US and UK programs we can see on BBC/ITV anyway?

Not everyone can, though. Not everybody wants to subscribe to multichannel tv.

But - if they did remove a large number of imports from RTE, then more people would get multichannel, and not as many people would watch the RTE. RTE must benefit from people tuning in to watch Eastenders and then staying on to watch Fair City or something else.

And I suppose RTE is scared that if they don't do this, people will turn away from their channels and they would lose out through reduced advertising revenue.

Lennoxschips

I've been out of the country for a few years but just recently looked at the TV schedule in the Indo. I noticed that EastEnders is mirrored on RTE at the same time as on BBC. That's absolutely ridiculous... they are afraid of competition from the BBC so they are turning into BBC Ireland instead. Perhaps if they spent their money on home grown programmes, like the BBC itself does, they'd be better off. (Why do they think the BBC is so successful?)

RTE's terrestrial transmission service is the only
system that guarantees free to view channels nationally.

Back to the original post, I'd just like to bring up the point that Chorus Analog Cable in Cork City has always been required to broadcast the Irish channels unscrambled. My aunt's house has cable, and she has no subscription, but she uses the cable to get the TV signal. If these FTA principles are applied so rigourosly in Cork, then surely they should apply to the rest of Ireland too?

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by Lennoxschips
I noticed that EastEnders is mirrored on RTE at the same time as on BBC

they got it after losing Coronation Street to TV3. why anyone with a choice would want to watch Eastenders on RTÉ1 is beyond me. 14:9 picture and an ad break half way through it

West Briton

Veering into OTness (sorry DMC!), whenever my parents are down here in Kildare they watch EastEnders on RTE One and Corrie on TV3. My mother's reasoning is that she is Irish and doesn't want to watch British television!!!

Proper anamorphic 16:9 doesn't wash with that sort of reasoning:rolleyes:

sceptre

Originally posted by West Briton
My mother's reasoning is that she is Irish and doesn't want to watch British television!!!

Too right. I'll bet she's never forgiven Eamon Andrews and Terry Wogan for going over to the dark side. That Tracy Pigott foreigner will get hers yet:)

watty

Erm.. TV3 is almost an ITV (british Franchise).
Corrie is British made and Brit Culture
Eastenders is British made and Brit Culture

Or was tongue stuck in cheek?


I can't remember the last Irish made program I watched. Maybe Bosco.

Ireland is famous for Writers, Playrights and musicians both in past and now.

IRish RM was a good co-production

Plenty of brilliant Art & Design folks here too and Animators.

Leaving out Sport, Soap, news, "Reality TV" and stuipid imported Quiz franchise with rip off phone numbers and Curent affiars and inane talk shows. (I hated Gay burne's show, because I hate talk shows but at least he could do it).

Where is the home produced:
Drama
History
Documentary
Specialist music
Comedy
SciFi

Add your own list..

Possibly the BEST thing RTE have at the moment are the Bosco replacement "Morebegs" Those furry monsters. Mega better than Barney or those twittering sexless "teletubbies".

Originally posted by watty
Where is the home produced:
Drama
History
Documentary
Specialist music
Comedy
SciFi

In my opinion RTE radio isn't bad at all.
This being a small country, with limited resources, I thought criticism of RTE's tv programmes a tad unfair.
They are committed, since the licence increase to commissioning more home produced stuff,but even on recent form:

Drama-on home Ground/paths to freedom

History-In search of ancient Ireland/ The changing face of Dublin/The state we're in

Documentary: You could include the above but also: Léargas/Would you believe/Our ladies amongst many others.
Not to mention the current Fine Gael, a family at war.

Specialist music: Well there was You're a star:D , all jokes aside, it turned out to be one of Montroses better investments.
Coulter and company.
Theres rising steps ( on tomorrow night )

Comedy: They have done Fergus's wedding and Bachellors walk in their cash starved times, I await more.

You've flummoxed me on the Sci-Fi , I'll grant you that... but maybe we could include cabin fever:D which might be back sooner than we think!
mm

watty

Why?

o Money from Advertisers is hidden in cost of product sold here
o We pay the TV licence
o We pay taxes. (any extra Goverment support, which there ought to be esp. for "external services").

So almost all the money (RTE gets) other than from direct sales of DVDs videos etc, is automatic from us the viewer because we live in Ireland and have a TV.

They are also the "Public Service Broadcaster"

So I resent money spent on duplication of foriegn stuff easily available from UK television.

* About 1/5th the population (or more) can put up a pole and get UK TV free
* Maybe 1/20th can get "Freeview"
* By end of 2004 for less than a years Sky World or Full NTL/Chorus Digital pack you will get ITV and BBC free no sub on Satellite.
* Cable came into being NOT for "multichannel" in Modern sense but for BBC / ITV
* Perhaps 1/3rd can get BBC/ITV on cheap analog cable
* MMDS only exists because of demand for BBC/ITV outside
cabled areas
* "Deflectors" only exist because MMDS done so clack-handedly.

It isn't hard for most of the population to get BBC/ITV free or very cheap today (probabily some 20% of folks that have no TV3 can get BBC free). It will be easier from 10th July for BBC.

RTE need to stop wasting money on duplication and "competing" by being the "same". They need to look "westward" from Donnybrook, not toward the east. It might not seem so in Dublin, but here in mid west (and I don't mean Irish Language, which I don't know at all), RTE looks less "Irish" than BBC NI and UTV a lot of the time. The Western Britain ITC franchise? It would nearly be a better service and more "Irish" if it *WAS* a BBC "national" region.

Wales did not get independance in 1922 (Actually, technically we became independant republic in 1948)
They have council busines in Welsh in some places (Ireland zero councils do business in Irish).
S4C~Digidol seems a very professional Welsh language station (And FTA on Satelitte, Why is TG4 not? Though TG4 is good).
Also BBC Wales (Cf with RTE1) , S4C Analog with English and ITV. There is little "welsh" identity ITV left in commmon with all ITV regions apart from Scottish and Ulster.

So where have we gone wrong?

Who pays Wales having 1 and 1/2 TV channels FTA on Satellite (Apart from BBC1 Wales and BBC 2 Wales also on Satellite FTA from 10th).

Do we want to be Mid atlantic amalgam of Britsh (TV shows, Sun, Mirror, English Football) and American Cultures (Coors, Budwiser, Big Mac, Coke, and US Independance day parties). Or have a Modern developing Irish Identy (which includes all the old stalwarts of Trad music, Gaelic Language and Sports, but is much more).

Marconi

Originally posted by watty
Considering how many people (Over 50%) get noisy, ghosted or interference prone RTE or none at all, Satellite is an ideal solution.

Watty,
I'm a bit curious where you get this statistic. Are you saying that RTÉ is transmitting an inferior signal to over 50% of it's viewers (which I utterly dispute) or do more than half of the people have inadequate aerials? And if so, why?

watty

RTE themselves claim VHF viewers should change to UHF if possible for a superior picture etc.

The *TRANSMITTED* picture is leaving them OK.

Some areas that have a low power relay should have a major transmitter.

Inadequate quantity, placement and power of relays.


I accept that in Rural or fringe areas that a large properly engineered aerial might be needed. But it should not be needed nearly everywhere.

You just have to look at how poor the TV picture is in most TV shops (apart from Sky digibox feeds).

Unless you are in a Fringe area you should not be able to tell if RTE is off a UHF aerial or Digiibox (in fact for high motion / fast pan scenes the Digibox should be slightly inferior).

The VHF transmitters should have been replaced by a UHF network over 20 years ago.

The main transmitter sites (excluding 3 or 4 newer UHF Donegal, Longord, Dundalk) where placed and designed over 40 years ago for VHF 405 lines.

What about Clonmel?

Try using a set-top aerial anyplace in Limerick City or surroundings (200K+ viewers)

I think also RTE relies to much on viewers in Dublin, Cork, Limerick, Galway using analog cable. These viewers won't know what a "decent" picture looks like till they watch Digibox, Digital MMDS/Cable or DVD. Yet they can in theory have a picture that looks as good on a 4:3 x 21" TV from an aerial. In practice they might get a worse picture.

Yes there are a LOT of substandard aerials and even local shops that will sell you the wrong "group".

Years of dodgy Off Air BBC, dodgy cable, pathetic Analog MMDS and poor VHF reception has "educated" the average viewer to accept a very poor picture as "normal".

Following re-engineering my own aerial installation last weekend I had perfect (i.e. no speckles /noise or ghosts just like still picture on Digibox) NET2, TV3 and TG4. RTE1 was AWFULL (massive ghosting, signal level to poor to bring VHS tuner out of "blue screen". I was about to go back on roof again to see what was wrong and picture came OK on its own. Must have been an RTE fault on OB from races? Or was feed to Woodcock Hill lost and it was switching to off air feed of who knows (or even was Woodcock RTE1 off air?).

How many urban areas can you use a handheld or portable TV in Ireland compared with UK?


Offically 20% of population is not covered by TV3. Which is why TV3 is "must carry" even on analog MMDS (Picture here on Analog MMDS of TV3 which is unscrambled from Woodcock or City directions is horrid). RTE saw it is TV3 fault for not spemnding money on relays. (Woodcock may be one of the few TV3 relays).

Do the VHF TX actually transmit Nicam at all?

Many areas in western half of Ireland need VHF for RTE1 and NET2 yet UHF for TV3 and TG4. This is unreasonable.

One reason for not changing Maghera and Mulliganish (which are not the best sites for UHF TX) from VHF is that the UHF relay network is inadequate in West Cork, Kerry, Clare and bits of Galway, and parts of Limerick for TG4 (never mind TV3), so they would lose RTE1 and NET2).

So rather than upgrade the UHF and improve TG4/TV3 reception they leave VHF as it is. RTE claim it is demand of Trade and viewers to retain the VHF. But this is ONLY becuase the "Trade" and "viewers" know from TG4 reception there is a problem withthe UHF network.

Ironically in Dublin City where the majority have cable anyway you can get fine TG4 aerial reception.

(Remind me where the main Gealteach areas are?)

P.S. I know no Irish at all, having been raised in Norn Iron. (Only the Catholic sponsered schools in NI did any Irish, and BBC NI in those days was allowed to broadcast Welsh, but not Irish, even that they blocked some mid-day welsh available in England or Scotland in case it would give some people ideas).

loftus

I live in Mayo. In the area ware I live every roof top has three aerials. One VHF for RTE 1 & Net 2 from Truskmore in sligo. A UHF for TV3 & TG4 also from Truskmore and another UHF for a local deflector. My reception is absolutely perfect for all channels. I've seen an aerial in shops around me thats both UHF and VHF.

Marconi

Watty,
You said in a previous posting that RTÉ was poorly received by over 50% of its viewers. I'm still unsure where you get this figure - is this from RTÉ themselves, or is it your own estimate?

Surely it's not RTÉ's fault if many of it's viewers receive their programmes through poorly maintained roof-top aerials, cable systems or near-bankrupt MMDS providers?

RTÉ claim 98.5% quality coverage.
BBC claim 99.4% quality coverage.
About 15,000 homes in Ireland have difficulty with their reception.
About 120,000 homes in the UK have difficulty with their reception.

Most people think that an aerial should last a lifetime, whereas in reality it needs to be serviced or replaced every 5 to 7 years, particularly in our wet and windy climate.

Broadcasters, such as RTÉ, cannot be blamed for their viewer's neglect in this area.

watty

I would SERIOUSLY dispute RTE figure. I think it is based simply on an ERP, and pin in a map. Not reality on the ground.

I'm guessing the 50%. On what I have seen I'd regard it as very generous. My figure is NOT coverage, but "decent" picture. RTE's figure as far as I can find out is "acceptable picture" with affordable external aerial, but I don't know as they don't say.

I have a map of ireland that shows where urban areas/ cities woods and mountains are.

I have RTE's official list of transmitters, location, frequency and ERP (power). So I'm not exactly uniformed. I'll agree my figure is educated guess work. I'd like evidence that any other figures arn't wishful thinking.

RTE also includes VHF reception in their figures which they themselves agree is poorer than the UHF main network.

The figure also does NOT include TG4 and TV3. TG4 is at least as important as NET2. Some would argue that TV3 coverage should be no worse either.


But since moving here in 1983 and staying in Galway, Achill, Drogheda, Cork, Youghal.
Visiting Clonmel, Cashel, Newcastlewest, Lahinch, Shannon and other places etc.
Living in:
Limerick City (3 different Areas)
Newmarket on Fergus Co. Clare
Ballinteer Dublin.

I have rarely ever seen decent pictures.
NEVER ever on analog cable (That isn't RTE's fault, though didn't they originally run a Cable company in Dublin?).

If you ring and complain (about signal quality or anything) they assume you are an idiot unless 5000 other people are phone to say there is no signal.

I can't beleive RTE use same basis of measuring coverage as BBC does in terms of quality. The bulk of RTE reception would appear to be closer in quality to what BBC would call fringe reception than main service quality.

I've worked as a BBC Communications Engineer and on video systems generally for over 20 years of and on. I know a good or bad picture when I see one.

Why are VHF transmitters still running and not replaced by UHF allowing people often in poorer parts of Ireland to use one aerial instead of two?

watty

Anyway, the point I'm making is that for a fraction of the cost of a BBC level of quality terrestrial Network RTE could PAY for encryption and Carriage on Sky.


In fact in some areas it would be cheaper for RTE to get a bulk discount and simply GIVE some Kerry/ West Cork/Clonmel people Sky family cards, than install relays etc.

Think what RTE could save on Electricity if they turned off their transmitters and you got a subsidized Sky card with your TV licence (no licence dodgers either)

Hmmm,theres a hamlet up the road from me here where RTE one/N2/TV3/TG4 aren't possible at all without Sky.
About 60 people or so involved.

My view on this is , you pays your money to sky for RTE with cheese.
ie: you get the extras such as instant search and scan and the info button, series link auto view etc.

Ok so you get these for free in the UK, but you still have to buy a receiver if you do that or subscribe to Sky for a year to obtain your free box.

Think about it for a second-We are a nation of less than 4 million people and we are supporting four terrestrial tv channels.
Whilst the UK with circa 60 million people have just five.

Economics had to come into the bargain somewhere.
mm

Marconi

Watty,
I guess we're off-topic on this this one but I really think your 50% figure is way too high.

I've been advised by RTÉ that they use very similar software to the BBC in their coverage predictions. Also, they use the ITU values for minimum coverage levels, i.e., 55dBuV/m for Band III and I'm inclined to believe them. They do employ some rather good engineers!

I do think, however, most of the coverage problems are due to the poor standard of aerials - have a look at the chimneys in Limerick City and count all the damaged LP7's which are VHF aerials and which people are using to receive Woodcock Hill on UHF.

VHF coverage is only poor in the midlands where Kippure and Maghera co-habit chs E & H. The UK is the only country in Europe not to use VHF - why?

Anyway, I think that this debate is better discussed in the Terrestrial forum

watty

They certinally use impressive looking aerials on Malone Rd. in Belfast to pick up RTE compared with Limerick City.

Now that I've presonally manged to get good RTE, TG4 and TV3 I can cancel Sky (again) without regrets..

I agree that in general sense RTE reception off Air is a Terrestrial Topic forum. I terms of context of access to Irish TV on Satellite and is there an arguement for Comreg setting prices/access for Irish viewers who otherwise get poor signal.

It doesn't matter if figure in a sense is 2% or 20% with poor pictures (or none at all), there is no logic in NO-ONE in Ireland deciding which package or price is reasonable for Irish TV on Satellite. Given RTE's losses and limited buget, I'm not arguing that they should be FTA on Satellite at their own expense. I do argue that *ANY* Sky package should give the Four Irish Channels to Irish viewers and that the packs below Family Pack are artifically expensive.

Knowledge pack includes Sky1 (What is that to do with Knowledge?) and excludes TG4. RTE1, TV3 and NET2. It is about 5 Euro less per month. They DON'T send the magasine ("oh goody" I hear from back!) on grounds of "cost"!

The cheaper "Value Pack" has got to be stunningly bad value.

When comparing Sky packages be sure to stroke out the actually Free To Air channels they quote as part of Pack such as:
CNN
ITV News
QVC
Sky News.
S4C~digidol (not sure if they claim this)

Virtually ALL radio is free. Except Sky Music Choice. (5 Live, 5 Extra free from 10th).

If you want to be mean stroke out channels that *ARE* part of a Sky pack only, on Sky, but free elsewhere or on another Satellite easily received in Ireland (without dodgy cards)
CNBC
Bloomberg
RTE1
NET2
TV3
TG4
BBC1
BBC2
Al Jazeera
TV5


Or channels where a very similar one is Free
MTV2 German
MTV
viva (pop)
viva Plus (pop)
Eurosport


I get over 600 FTA TV and 500 FTA Radio on Digital, recordable direct to PC hard disk too.

About 50 or so FTA TV and approx 50 FTA analog Satellite.

All the main *TERRESTRIAL* German and Italian TV in better quality than I have seen on most peoples RTE aerials. Even on Analog Satellite.

DMC

Yes the way this thread has drifted off to terrestrial, it could be moved, but I wont.

Just back to the original point, if you get RTÉ via any system other than terrestrial aerial, you have to pay to watch it.
RTÉ, you could say have the same agreements on cable and satellite.

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by Man
theres a hamlet up the road from me here where RTE one/N2/TV3/TG4 aren't possible at all without Sky

it really is pathetic that RTÉ decided to upgrade a transmitter near the NI border to improve reception up there while there are still people in the ROI with no reception at all.

why are TV3 available on a seperate transmitter. here i have the TV3 on ch 26 or 27 while RTÉ1, Network 2 and TG4 are on 53, 57 and 63 so 2 seperate aerials are needed when ideally TV3 would be with the others on 1 aerial. it is a joke and not a very funny one

JoeDuffy

Why did RTE not reach agreement with BBC to be part of the Freeview suite of channels on digital satellite. Freeview could then be launch in the Rep.That way everyone in Ireland gets digital quality BBC, ITV, CH4, and CH5 etc., and Irish viewers in the UK get digital RTE (& TV3 if they went on board). Benefits in this approach,

1. One off charge to customers
2. Joe Public and RTE not having to deal with SKY (who will mess both around in the long run.)
2. Ad revenue fot RTE from UK.
3. Reduced customer dependence on SKY.

ShaneOC

Originally posted by JoeDuffy
Why did RTE not reach agreement with BBC to be part of the Freeview suite of channels on digital satellite. Freeview could then be launch in the Rep.That way everyone in Ireland gets digital quality BBC, ITV, CH4, and CH5 etc., and Irish viewers in the UK get digital RTE (& TV3 if they went on board). Benefits in this approach,

1. One off charge to customers
2. Joe Public and RTE not having to deal with SKY (who will mess both around in the long run.)
2. Ad revenue fot RTE from UK.
3. Reduced customer dependence on SKY.

Main issue is RTÉ have only to bid for Irish rights for the 4 million of us against TV3. If it was broadcast to UK then costs would be much higher.

Richard

Originally posted by Man

Think about it for a second-We are a nation of less than 4 million people and we are supporting four terrestrial tv channels.
Whilst the UK with circa 60 million people have just five.

Economics had to come into the bargain somewhere.
mm

The number of channels a county can support is dependent on frequency space as well as size and population.

If there were space for more analogue terrestrial TV channels in the UK, I'm sure there would be. In fact some areas have six channels (North West of NI for a start).

I do find it rather odd that RTE spent so much money to improve its coverage in Northern Ireland, whose residents don't pay an Irish licence fee when there are so many areas in the Republic much more deserving.

sceptre

Originally posted by JoeDuffy
Why did RTE not reach agreement with BBC to be part of the Freeview suite of channels on digital satellite. Freeview could then be launch in the Rep.That way everyone in Ireland gets digital quality BBC, ITV, CH4, and CH5 etc., and Irish viewers in the UK get digital RTE (& TV3 if they went on board). Benefits in this approach,

1. One off charge to customers
2. Joe Public and RTE not having to deal with SKY (who will mess both around in the long run.)
2. Ad revenue fot RTE from UK.
3. Reduced customer dependence on SKY.

There's far more to gain for people in the ROI than in the UK. Hence the BBC, who have relatively little to gain (and actually stand to lose if the few pennies per subscriber they get from cable cos carrying their signal in Ireland are lost as a result of people dumping MMDS in favour of this free system) didn't see the point. RTE are far more afraid of ITV and channel 4 taking more of their advertising revenue as well if every home in the country can get these channels for a once-off fee.

Then there are the rights issues which are even mroe important. The BBC is currently in the position of effectively being a pay-TV channel in the republic. An Irish freeview system including the BBC for free has no end of hassle for the rights lawyers.

JoeDuffy

I think that the issue of TV rights is completely over stated. British TV and radio channels have been available in Ireland (legally & illegally) for decades. BBC are now making their TV and radio availble via digital satellite next week. Do you hear anyone screaming about TV rights?

If the Irish Gov are serious (?) about providing affordable digital TV in Ireland then they must consider a freeview satellite system. And dare I say it, the Irish Gov (RTE, Chorus, NTL etc.) must consider that digital satellite will bring with it the enemy of all Irish people......competition and choice.

Originally posted by JoeDuffy
I think that the issue of TV rights is completely over stated. British TV and radio channels have been available in Ireland (legally & illegally) for decades. BBC are now making their TV and radio availble via digital satellite next week. Do you hear anyone screaming about TV rights?

Let me clarify the situation for you.
There has never been a problem as such with the rights of BBC programmes where they have been receivable for years here either through an aerial or on cable.
Indeed for many years the cable co's broadcast UK channels without paying a penny for them, untill, the UK channels discovered this and did something about it-ie they now pay.

However RTE have always got Big U.S Films and Series before they were shown on the UK channels.
That was the only way they could compete in multi channel land and still is.
They were able to buy the rights for them in ROI on the cheap as they could say that they were for just the Eire 3 million or so audience.
Satellite has complicated this as technically now it is possible for anyone with a Sky system to bend the rules and receive RTE in Britain.
RTE couldn't continue to show U.S programming before the UK channels have them , if a formal agreement was made to put RTE on in the UK.
Everybody would be watching RTE and then ITV add revenue would plummet.
Programme rights in English are complicated in such a way to maximixe revenue for the programme makers.
The only agreement possible would be the U.S / Canada example ie the simulcasting of the movies and U.S series on both RTE and the UK channels.
Now that happens as it is with a lot of TV3's programming, but then Granada own a lot of that channel.
RTE wouldn't like to be simulcasting films and U.S series with the BBC as , yes you've guessed it,most would probably watch on the BBC here as there would be no adds.
That would ruin RTE's add revenue.
Hope that gives you a flavour of what we are up against, it's all to do wih money really.
mm

JoeDuffy

There has never been a problem as such with the rights of BBC programmes where they have been receivable for years here either through an aerial or on cable.

Sorry Madman, but I'm not sold on your explanation. How can there be no problems with TV rights from BBC broadcasts, and yet there is somehow a problem with TV rights on all other UK terrestrials.

The debate has very little to do with TV rights, but has everything to do with ad revenue. Because the BBC will not be pursuing ad revenue in Ireland there is no problem. If ITV, CH4, and CH5 were to enter into the equation then RTE would really wet themselves, and we would be listening to "smoke screens" about TV rights for the next few years.