Screen size

mate

How will RTE and other channels from a digibox look on a normal TV i.e. not a wide screen tv. Will there be black bars on top and bottom? Is RTE and other channels on sky all in widescreen format?

sceptre

RTE don't show all that many things in widescreen. The Beeb have become widescreen fanatics and take every opporunity to show as much as they can in widescreen. For example, Eastenders and 24 are both widescreen on BBC but fullscreen 4x3 on RTE.

Your digibox has a setting whereby you can leave the shows in widescreen with black bars at top and bottom on a regular TV or show them in fullscreen mode with part of the picture missing on the left and right. Aspect ratio is fine (in other words there's no stretching). Not all channels support this (for example TCM will stay in widescreen with black bars visible on a regular TV regardless of your settings if I remember rightly). Works out very well actually (I've a regular TV and just leave stuff in widescreen, which I tend to prefer for movies. If all channels broadcast almost everything in widescreen I'd probably switch for a while before saving for a WS set)

Mossy Monk

Originally posted by mate
How will RTE and other channels from a digibox look on a normal TV

the exact same as analogue but with better picture quality (in my case at least)

watty

There are two types of Widescreen:
1) Anamorphic
2)Letterboxed

RTE never transmit type (1: Anamorphic)

Anamorphic is exactly the same number of lines and pixels. The pixels are just considered to be very rectangular instead of nearly square (DVD / DSat is 720 pixels per line, 4:3 square pixels would actually be 768 pixels per line). The display has to either have more width (16:9 shape TVs) or reduce the height (4:3 shape TVs with a 16:9 menu option, or LCD/DLP XGA projectors)

Digibox has three settings:
a) 16:9 mode = Leave picture as it is
b) 4:3 Crop = Leave 4:3 pictures alone, crop sides of Anamorphic 16:9
c) 4:3 Letterbox = Leave 4:3 pictures alone, rescale Anamorphic 16:9 images as non-anamorphic so insert black letterbox bars.

If your TV ONLY does non-anamorphic (older or cheaper 4:3 shape TVs), and you have digibox on (a) the picture allways fills the screen for unletterboxed 4:3 correctly. For unletterboxed Animorphic it still fills the screen but everything is too tall.

Just as a 4:3 TV or transmission can be letterboxed (variable size of blank lines at top and bottom), an anamorphic picture need not be showing a 16:9 frame:
Examples
16:9 shape is ratio of 1.78:1 No Cinema picture is this shape.
Cinema WS is 1.66:1 (Giant) up to 2.7:1 (Ben Hur). Old pre widescreen cinema (before TV existsed, it was TV that gave impetus for cinema to have WS) is Academy format, which is very similar to normal TV shape.

Spidermand and lots of Films are 1.85:1, because most TVs have a picture larger than the tube, only on a projector or a 4:3 TV with animorphic WS mode will you notice skinny black bands top and bottom.

Ben Hur at 2.7:1 ratio will have huge black bands even on a Widescreen TV. You want a BIG 16:9 TV to watch that and a HUGE 4:3 TV to watch it!

Worse
The BBC is obssessed with WS output. So they broadcast much 14:9 and 4:3 material on Sky in Anamorphic WS mode.

On a WS TV, 4:3 material (non-animorphic) has black bands at sides. It fills an ordinary screen. A WS TV user can zoom it slightly chopping off top/bottom a bit or stretch it (horrid) to "fill screen". So the BBC transmitting "4:3 letterboxed" does not affect the black bars on a WS TV, though it does make the picture less sharp.

If you have a super duper large 4:3 TV with automatic height reduction for animorphic (Digibox left on 16:9 mode) you get better 4:3 pictures than a WS TV and if TV set same width as a neighbours WS model then you get IDENTICAL quality WS animorphic 16:9 pictures (unlike old 4:3 TVs the letterboax black bits are not black lines, they are empty glass, all the lines are in the picture, but closer together).

If you has ordinary 4:3 TV on Digibox "letterbox" mode than 4:3 images fill the screen and animorphic images are rescaled to "letterbox" with black lines like terrestrial analog tV. The actual picture part has less lines than really transmitted because the TV can't reduce the height so the Digibox rescales the picture into a black 4:3 frame.

Getting to point
The problem with the BBC transmitting 4:3 images "letterboxed" in an 16:9 Animorphic mode is:
1/ For WS TV user, no advantage, sharpness is reduced.

2/ For a Super Duper 4:3 TV in Animorphic mode, ALL four sides have black bands. The picture is shrunk, thus less sharp.

3/ For a regular 4:3 TV in Digibox letterbox mode you get a shrunk picture same size as "2/" above but even less sharp.

4/ For a regular 4:3 TV in Digibox Crop mode you get a full screen picture, but it is very blurred or lacking in detail.

Obviously for a 4:3 TV user with an expensive Anaimorphic hieght reduction mode (or 16:9 WS TV owner) they want Digibox in 16:9 mode which gives 4:3 pictures full quality and full screen and 16:9 animorphic pictures at full quality but reduced height to make picture on tube identical to a WS tube (the TV drives the picture tube as if it is a WS tube).

For cinema lovers the best mode for old/ordinary 4:3 TV sets is "letterbox" on Digibox as this gives full quality, full screen for 4:3 material and gives all of the picture undistorted and uncropped for 16:9 animorphic material (although less sharp vertically than the two preceding TV types.).

The BBC transmission of 4:3 material letterboxed in a 16:9 animorphic mode benefits no-one!
1/ 16:9 WS TV owners get a less sharp picture
2/ owners of Good / big 4:3 TVs are penalised by a shrunk picture unless they go to services and select Crop.
3/owners of regular TVs on Crop setting get inferior quality picture
4/owners of regular Tvs on Letter box setting (best to view) are penalised by shrunk picture.

I wish the BBC would stop it!

watty

If you have Analog Cable, then Digibox is MUCH better.
If you have TV3 via Analog MMDS, Digibox is MUCH better.
If you have VHF RTE then Digibox is better
IF you have typical UHF RTE then Digibox is less noisy / no ghosts
If you have PERFECT UHF RTE on a good TV then Digibox RTE is about the same, but slightly worse on losts of fast movement or extremely heavy rain.

Almost nobody has PERFECT UHF reception in Ireland. It is more common in UK.

Since TV3 coverage is MUCH poorer than RTE1 or NET2, Digibox is an advatange to more people for it.


There is no difference to mode / shape of picture on any Irish channel. Irish Channels on Satellite are exact copies of signal fed to UHF TV network.

Lennoxschips

Somebody needs to complain to the BBC. Sometimes they show whole matches in 16:9 even though the feed is 4:3. (ie the World Cup / UEFA Cup final / Rugby etc). All this just so they can show the half time punditry in widescreen.

I have a 4:3 television with my digibox setup in letterbox mode, and the result is i get a tiny picture with black bars and all sides. Ok, I can adjust the settings on the digibox, but I shouldn't have to.

Surely it would make perfect logical sense for the BBC to switch over to 4:3 when broadcasting 4:3 feeds?? I know they do it for 4:3 American programmes like The Simpsons, for example.

watty

If I find myself living in UK again I'll complain. A bit likely to be ignored otherwise!