Annoyance

Typedef

It irks me, that many many people seem fond of deriding being Irish, anything about Ireland and so on.

RTE according to those in 'the know' are a 'shower of wasters' and whinge whinge look at the quality of service the BBC provides.

Seriously though predicating my anecdote further, you get, what you pay for in this life (in the main), so if you want a world class Television service, it means an increase in your colour TV licence, which Irish people don't want to pay.

So quit complaining, it's not because somehow, Irish money, evaporates, when spent on services due to the Irishness of it's origin, it's simply a question, a function rather of infrasturcture and money spent, over periods of time.

The Television thing is a simple example. Irish people (of which I am one) consistenly whinge about everything seemingly on the basis of which country we live in. The quality of roads , well that's a function of being Irish, (not anything to do with infrastructural spending), corrupt politicians, again, persumably if said corrupt politicains were oh Swedish, or German or English, you would get more bang for your tax-buck.

What? Did I miss emancipation or something, if such things were said about black people, person(x) would be rightly larted.

I realise alot of this snipery is an inferiority complex left over from English colonisation, but, seriously, get over it.
Ireland is rich now and to quote Leonard Cohen.

"The poor get poor and the rich get rich".

More to the point. Ireland was not rich for a long time and it will take a lot of sustained infrastructural spending and Irish people willing to pay for services (like increased TV licences) before one will see an improvement nationwide.

Take the example of Dublin, it is, for all intents and purposes transformed from the slum it was in the mid 1980s, to a burgeoning Capital, with virtually none of the inner city decrepitude that existed in such pandemic not 15 years ago.

So for god's sake, once in a while people, acknowledge it.

amp

Interesting rant, and I do agree with most of it. Change doesn't happen overnight and our infrastructure is still struggling to keep up with the change in Irelands fortunes.

You should get a journal Typedef, I know I'd read it.

Sparks

Or maybe we just complain regarding things that are wrong because they are wrong.

seamus

Yup

There's still a prevalent feeling in Irish Society that the Government is a big bad bastard who takes our money away and screws us for all we've got.

As well as that, insurance companies are nothing but greedy ****s, grabbing money through our compulsory burden.

So people feel the need to try and avoid paying as much tax as possible. To resist all attempts to increase costs. And above all, to screw everyone else over for every penny they can get, so they can go and puke it all down the toilet.

It's time for the Irish people to realise that they can afford it. Half a percent extra in tax is not another 0.5% being screwed out of you, it another few quid towards the upkeep of the country.

Bottom line: You are part of a system. To screw the system, you screw yourself, your family and your friends. Every penny you save through illegal or inhonest means is another penny from some other average joe's coffer. The problem is that everybody's at it. Especially the politicians.

Von

Upwardly Mobile. The Cassidys. How? Why? When they were making these bloody things, someone should have been filming fly on the wall type documentaries. They would've been funnier than The Office.

Yeah Typedef, the mediocrity, incompetence and 'ah sure it'll do, y'know de way we do be' bog peasant half arsedness that plagues every area of Irish society should be tolerated as never before.

Typedef

There's that.

The half-arsedness also lends itself to griping about itself, wierdly, a sort of recursive whinging.

Uh-oh, yes, I realise I'm a hyporcite now.

Blitzkrieger

Originally posted by Typedef
so if you want a world class Television service, it means an increase in your colour TV licence, which Irish people don't want to pay.

OMG! You really think RTE is world class? Third world class maybe. Can you imagine the increase it would take to turn them into a world class service - i can't.

I remember watching Man Utd V Juve a few years back on ITV, when Phil Neville appeared to have brought down a Juve player in the penalty area. At half time, ITV showed the reverse angle, and it was clear that the Juve player had dived, as Phil Neville had made no contact at all. I flicked over to Network 2 and Eamon Dunphy was spouting about how it was a clear penalty, should have been a red card and the ref is a disgrace, to the general agreement of the entire RTE mupp<H<H<H<Hcommentary team. You'd think it'd be a simple thing to show the reverse angle and make an informed decision but I bet it never entered their heads.

It's not just sports coverage they're crap at - have you seen what passes for comedy on Irish television? And gameshows? I hate gameshows myself, but I can't believe that Gay Byrne is hosting Millionare. I saw an episode of The Fame Game once - what an abysmal affair that was. There was a guy in France trying to find Naomi Campbell, but he didn't have an appointment, so he was basically stalking her with an RTE camera crew, while they all had a great time in Paris at the license payers expense. It transpires that Naomi isn't in Paris, so they jet off to LA to stalk her some more. What exactly is the license increase for? To upgrade their seats to first class? To send Charlie Bird (Byrd?) to some remote location for no discernable reason when he could easily file the report from home?

I don't want RTE. The only thing I regularly watch on RTE are american shows, which are screened on C4 a few days later. Why should I be forced to pay a license fee for a service I don't want?

Sometimes we complain because we're right to.

Zombrex

Originally posted by seamus
It's time for the Irish people to realise that they can afford it.

I worked in a shop that sells mobile top-up cards. When the mobile operator ,who shall remain nameless, decressed the percentage profit to the shop, the shop started charging a small handling charge for each top-up card (basically passing it on to the customer).

Now not agruing over the validity of the extra charge, but I was quite taken aback by how pissed off this made a lot of customers. I had people screaming and shouting and storming off. Calling me a robber, a disgrace, telling me i am whats wrong with this country!! People jumping into their cars and going down the town to buy it somewhere else (afaik most places have the charge), probably ending up spending far more on petrol and wasted time and then having to pay the charge anyway.

People seem to be constantly feeling ripped off, that they pay too much tax (or tax at all), too much in insurance, that everyone is ripping them off, trying to take their hard earned cash.

Originally posted by Blitzkrieger
I don't want RTE. The only thing I regularly watch on RTE are american shows, which are screened on C4 a few days later. Why should I be forced to pay a license fee for a service I don't want?

Why should u be forced to pay for a health service you might use once or twice in your life?? If they went around asking everyone "do you want to pay for this" where would we be. It is just another tax that goes to the greater good. I think RTE is a pretty good station for a small country of 4 million. And it has one of the few truely world class news organisations left in the western world (don't believe me .. try watching FOX News, or Sky News, or even the BBC News ... its all turned into news for idiots ... and they have vastly larger budgets)

Captain Trips

Originally posted by Wicknight
I think RTE is a pretty good station for a small country of 4 million. And it has one of the few truely world class news organisations left in the western world (don't believe me .. try watching FOX News, or Sky News, or even the BBC News ... its all turned into news for idiots ... and they have vastly larger budgets)

That is very true. Mainstream media is a total joke - I turn on Sky News and it really seems like a video tabloid to me.

RTE on the other hand, have shag all money and regularly are all set to go at everyone, be it the government or whoever. I like that. Unfortunately it appears very inbred, with the likes of Gay Byrne, or Pat Kenny still employed when they are very much past their sell-by date.

I liked Bachelor's Walk, Cassidy's was a load of ****.

I do object to paying a license fee for just having a TV though. It is a bit much considering it basically lines the pockets of the RTE execs and the big "talent" like Pat Kenny.

They'd do better to start say, filming the comedy clubs or something that are around the country, an easy road to comedy, probably cheap as well. Then maybe branch from there.

Wook

Just wondering that some people might have a case moaning and bitching about irish improvement of services, because there is so little to show for ?

What happend to the money from the Irish Boom ?

schools ?
Health ?
Culture ?
Police?
Telecom?
just anything ?

I must be overlooking something, but i just can not figure it out.

The Corinthian

Originally posted by Typedef
So quit complaining, it's not because somehow, Irish money, evaporates, when spent on services due to the Irishness of it's origin, it's simply a question, a function rather of infrasturcture and money spent, over periods of time.

So is complaining is unpatriotic?

RTE is a pretty piss-poor service. However, in its defence so are most TV stations, be they state-run or private, it’s just that we tend to unfairly compare RTE to the BBC - which is probably the best in the World.

So should we stop complaining? No. That’s how things improve. It’s like going to a restaurant and getting a bottle of wine that’s corked. Only complaining will force an improvement to take place. The alternative is to politely drink bitter wine.

Patriotism is important to any nation, but should not be practiced to the detriment of that nation’s self-regulation and self-improvement. We are our own watchdog, after all and as such patriotic censorship of criticism will generally only be used as an excuse by those guilty few who wish not to have their actions questioned.

Of course, the unhealthy flip side of complaining can also be the abdication of responsibility, which may well be Typie’s point. We used to blame all of Ireland’s ills on the British - then realized that we couldn’t really get away with the old 700-years of oppression line any more. So we turned on the Church around the mid to late eighties, and even that is getting old now. I wonder who’s next? After all, it couldn’t be our fault that this country is in the state it’s in..?

But that’s another argument, and not one I have time at present to entertain.

Trebor

I too would have to agree that we irish seem to complain for the sake of complaining, but when it comes to making a change we are not willing to pay for a better service.

being one of the most expensive countries in europe doesn't help either as to do anything cost more here than it does anywhere else.

the govrnment is not helping any with Charlie McCreevy sitting on the budget and not spending so that he can spend billions on the run up to the election in order to win votes. doesn't he know that now is the best time to borrow and invest in infrastructure?

Samara

The thread is about people being fond of deriding being Irish and then you go on to say what a load of whingers the entire Irish population is?? Is that not deriding being Irish?


The facts are that cutbacks are being made left, right and centre. Our hospitals are overcrowded and understaffed, seriously ill people are being left in corridors on trolleys for hours on end. Education is suffering from cutbacks, again too low teacher per student ratios and inadequate facilities. There was a case in Limerick recently where the government promised to expand a school but didn't due to cutbacks and the roof collapsed on an old prefab with 27 students inside!! Are you trying to tell me that we should be happy with this?? That we should not 'complain' or protest in order to improve these situations??


As for RTE, I'll agree it has the most unbiased news, and you can be sure you're pretty much getting the true story. The programme schedule is not great but has improved. But tell me how does TV3 manage to have a pretty good set up with no license fees?? There's pretty much the same amount of ad breaks on all the Irish channels!!


And yes insurance companies are greedy ****s! Please prove to me how our pet hate - motor insurance is not exorbitant??? Or how the government tax on ATM cards, credit cards, laser cards etc. is not targeting the consumer and keep in mind that Ireland is the only country to have this tax!

Now I would gladly pay all of these charges and taxes if my money was being spent well by our beloved government, (this not not include self rewarded payrises for members of said government ) if the infrastructure was adequate, if the health service was ticking over in a mildly acceptable manner and if our children were not being educated in buildings which no health and safety officer would normally dare to pass. But until the day I see this happening I will speak out, this has nothing to do with patriotism or irishness, simply a request for facilities which in every other developed country are taken for granted!

bonkey

Originally posted by Samara
But until the day I see this happening I will speak out, this has nothing to do with patriotism or irishness, simply a request for facilities which in every other developed country are taken for granted!

And of course, the fact that it is the people's choice of elected representative which is responsible for all of this has nothing to do with it.

Its corrupt politicians, and not the people who elect them.

In a similar vein, many of the flaws which people point at (hospitals, roads, etc. etc. etc.) are not just a simple matter of reorganisation or more money.

I've lost track of the number of people I've heard complain about the roads. When asked where the money should have come from to build the roads when we needed them...they have no answer but to say "why arent we doing it now". When asked where the money today will come from, its usually asnwered with "fix the problems in the system and there's plenty of money".

Of course, its the fixing the problems which is requiring the money in the first place, but thats not the issue. No, the issue is that we don't have what we want, and that must be someone's fault.

Our healthcare system is terribly inefficient. Most people reckon the way to fix this is to restructure the entire system, make thousands (or tens of thousands) unemployed, and there you go....massive savings all round....except for the unemployed and the cost they will impose on us...but thats not the issue.

No, the issue is that we need a simple solution so we can blame the people we decide SHOULD be to blame because we dont have what we want.

It should be perfectly ok for the government to wipe out thousands of jobs overnight in the name of efficiency.....at least until we want to blame them for contributing so massively to unemployment.

RTE is crap. it should be like BBC. Of course, that would only require a budget like BBCs. and hey - a nation of our size can easily do that because a nation the size of Great Britain has managed it too. No...I'm missing the point again....its someone's fault that RTE is crap. If only those people we kept electing spent the money better, we'd be far better off.

Of course, what so many people seem to fail to realise is that in every other nation, I've seen the same levels of criticism from its people to its government etc. The issues mightnt be the same, but every single one of them "deserves" X, should have "Y" cause every civilised/modern nation has it, and its all "Z"s fault, cause he's not me.

jc

Samara

I'm perfectly aware that the resources aren't there to magically transform the country and the development and improvements required will be a slow process. But when I open my local newspaper to see a roof has caved in on a bunch of kids because they were being forced to be schooled in archaic prefabs well then I begin to wonder where we should draw the line. When it becomes a question of possible death or injury then it must be addressed. Every second day the newspapers tout headlines of cuts to every sector imaginable yet we have just seen a 10% payrise for our beloved politicians...when they ask us to hang tough through economic downturns and at the same time grab a bigger piece of the pie themselves I'm sure as hell going to resent it!

The cost of living has risen here for a number of reasons and we the consumers have a part to play in this also through overspending on non essentials. I don't stand upon my soap box here and point the finger at everybody around me but I will contribute my 2 cents as to what I deem to be atrocities in our system and day to day living conditions.

This attitude of "yeah the government made a mistake but what do the people expect, they elected them" is one that really annoys me. Because the government were voted into power does that mean that they can do as they please and any consequences are the sole fault of the people as a whole? As a democracy the government allegedly serves the people and therefore are answerable to the people so as such why shouldn't we seek answers when we are concerned?

Von

Some excellent stuff pops up on TG4 in fairness.

DadaKopf

You see what you're doing there, Typedef?

Anyway, look, it's one thing to complain about Dublin's transport infrastructure (i.e. dutiful citizen awareness) but it's a completely different thing to get in a hoop about knackers climbing up a bridge.

Point one: we've just had a world class bridge opened in the city which is something to be proud of. Point two: knackers climb all over it and we blame the bridge's architect.

I mean, is it just me or have we got things completely screwed up?

Blitzkrieger

Well said Corinthian - I think you're about the only person who stayed on topic

Originally posted by Wicknight
Why should u be forced to pay for a health service you might use once or twice in your life?? If they went around asking everyone "do you want to pay for this" where would we be. It is just another tax that goes to the greater good. I think RTE is a pretty good station for a small country of 4 million.

That's not the same thing at all, and I don't agree that it is for the greater good. How is sending some twit to Los Angeles to stalk Naoimi Campbell with an RTE film crew contributing to the greater good? It's not even entertainment. The BBC would argue that because of the way it is funded, and is not reliant on selling advertising and high ratings, it has great freedom to make 'new' shows, explore new formats, give young directors/producers a chance, etc. It encourages artistic expression and creative development. RTE should be the same way, but it just doesn't work.

DadaKopf

I think RTE is a pretty piss poor station for a country of our size. Unfortunately, it's not funding that's the problem. That'd be easily fixed. No, it's the staff. Top level staff make bad decisions, production staff are underskilled and choked by union politics and creative staff is, well, severely lacking in imagination.

That's a really bad mix. What I've been suggesting for a long time is for the management to change and to get RTE creative and technical staff work placements abroad in other countries to learn their best techniques (I was thinking more BBC2 or Channel 4).

Imagination is the problem. Not money.

bonkey

Originally posted by DadaKopf
I think RTE is a pretty piss poor station for a country of our size.

What TV stations in comparably-sized countries are you comparing it to?

I would rank it about par with the various Swiss channels, tbh. Possibly slightly better, in fact.....

jc

DadaKopf

Do I have to compare it to anything else to make a judgement on it? Your question seems to imply that because we're a small country, we can't make interesting programming because RTE hasn't much money, which makes their problems financial.

I'm not saying that. I'm saying their problems are management problems.

I'm not going to compare 'comparably-sized countries'" channels because I couldn't understand any of them. I couldn't possibly comment on substance, but from the looks of things, Danish and Finnish TV looks good.

bizmark

Ireland is a top country

let,s be honest though we have problums But what country doesnt ????????
where getting goodish internet access now
the road,s are improveing
Cork city is looking good (yes the building work is a pain but eh!) RTE isnt as bad as people make it out to be (this post seems to have turned into a bash rte post)
tax isnt as much of a pain as most seem to complane about

the list goes on

the problums we have though in my view is down to some private companys like eircom and insurance companys .... and to a extend the goverment for not sorting them out.


Thier,s notting better than being Irish and Ireland in my view is a grand country for it,s size up da reble county !;)

bonkey

Originally posted by DadaKopf
Your question seems to imply that because we're a small country, we can't make interesting programming because RTE hasn't much money, which makes their problems financial.

No, I was trying to get you clarify why you criticised RTE for being piss poor for a country of our size.

You chose the wording, I was just assuming that you actually meant something by it. Apparently not.

Apparently, your criticism is really that it is poor because of its management...and it has nothing to do with the size of our nation or anything.

jc

DadaKopf

Uh... piss poor BECAUSE THE MANAGEMENT IS BAD WHICH HAS A NEGATIVE IMPACT ON PROGRAMMING QUALITY, VARIETY AND INVENTIVENESS.

Is there something here you missed?

The amount of money RTE receives FOR A COUNTRY THIS SIZE isn't an excuse for bad management decisions and structural inflexibility.

Blitzkrieger

Settle down lads - no need for the handbags

It's a matter of opinion in the end, and I'll respect yours if you respect mine.

pro_gnostic_8

Originally posted by Typedef
It irks me, that many many people seem fond of deriding being Irish, anything about Ireland and so on.

Oh no, I don't think people are necessarily being derisory when they voice justifiable criticism of the wrongs in modern Ireland. The Irish are as proud of their culture and heritage as any other nation ................ it is the plain people of Ireland, afterall, who without any Government encouragement or assistance nurtured the beginnings of the Gaelscoileanna, Irish dancing , adult Irish language classes etc, etc.

But when people see the scandalous waste of public monies, the corruption in public life, the cronyism of gombeen politicians, the crisis in the Health system, et al, they are rightfully critical. Not in a negative or mocking way.


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You should get a journal Typedef, I know I'd read it.
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Going OT for a minute, I have a slight problem with this development (Boards blogs),. I worry that the many interesting posters to this and other forums may well migrate their thoughts and musings to their Journals to the diminishment of the forums. My 2 cents worth.