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ds9 Dominion War, World War 2 bad guys

  • 20-06-2003 12:48am
    Registered Users Posts: 2,478 ✭✭✭

    Ok Im not saying the shape shifters are Nazis
    But looking at how some of the "bad guys" in the Dominion War at the last years of Ds9,it looks kinda like World war 2.
    Dominion taking over every place left right and center (Germany invading)
    StarFleet and the Klingons at the start of the war getting their ass kicked, and having to retreat (Dunkirk,France 1940)
    Even before the war the Cardassian Govt ,before Garak, was the depopa council (probably have that mispelt) which is kinda like the Weimar republic in Germany post ww1.
    The Cardassians being the Italians, the weakest of the Alliance,in militaray/techology terms (the galor class ship wasnt much).
    The Breen/Japanese ,the unexpected attack on Earth/Starfleet hq, in 1941 Perl harbour was the base for the American Fleet Hq.
    The Romulans/Russians, good intel, taking over conquered space and not giving it up,setting up their own forms of govt.
    Also the Cardassians changing sides late in the war.
    Probably have claim after counter claim but for me , I though their were a lot of key areas in it that reminded me of ww2.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,560 ✭✭✭Woden

    there is some similarities looking at your comparision is has to be admitted however i'm confused in where you compare the cardassians to the italians in one instance and to the germans in the next?

    Star Trek (especially the original series i suppose) has always been based on real life events and issues and perhaps this war was orchestrated with WW2 in mind by the DS9 however it may have just been done for dramatic effect at the time and that is how the episodes wrote themselves so to speak.

  • Registered Users Posts: 6,892 ✭✭✭bizmark

    :D wow i never though of it like that.......... very interesting idea:)

  • Registered Users Posts: 916 ✭✭✭ilkhanid

    I'm not sure you can fit the WW2 powers to equivalents in the Dominion War.
    If the USA is the Federation and the Romulans are the Soviets then who are the Klingons? And although weaker than the Dominion, The Cardassians are still a formidable power (remember they fought a war against the Federation before) so not comparable to the Italians.

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭DenMan

    Never responded to a thread created over 5 years ago, but here we go, and considering this is Star Trek (Deep Space Nine) my nerdishness has taken over.

    The Dominion was created over 2000 years ago (some records say 10000 but is not mentioned on television) by the Founders. Persecuted, hunted down and killed by the Solids they went into isolation and turned to cloning, genetic manipulation and because of a mistrust of Solids created the Dominion. Instead of being persecuted they would control the destiny of hundreds of races to come. Effectively eliminating any future threat to their species. This is akin to The Hitler Youth (renamed to Hitler-Jugend in 1926). Both the Vorta and The Jem H'adar are born to serve the Founders and show unwavering loyalty. Unlike the Hitler Party whose special future officers would serve in the Wehrmacht the Jem H'adar are all created equally and have no need for sleep, food or any luxeries of any kind. This was tested during The Youth. It is easy to see where the DS9 writers were going with this. Strict measure of loyalty were also enforced (Ketracel White). For the Hitler Youth it was told to them at a young age that they were superior to other races (Aryan).

    Now on to the Cardassians. This is quite strange as they were never considered to be a super power in the Alpha Quadrant. They acquired territories during the occupation of Bajor and minor skirmishes they had with the Federation and the Klingon Empire. In fact during the occupation the Bajorans would use Hitler Youth tactics against them (creating cells and operating separately). Very well done by the writers I have to say. The military both saved Cardassia and in the end destroyed it. They were a poverty stricken people who had no sense of looking after themselves and had to expand in order to look after their growing population. When the military came in they changed their policy. Instead of using their own resources they acquired it elsewhere through ruthless agression. When the military fell and Cardassia returned to a civilian leadership the Cardassians became a third rate power. They even had to ask for Federation assistance (agreed with the Detapa council)

    Alright let's talk about the Breen. Rarely seen and mentioned in TNG once and in Generations. They are a reclusive species who remained very quiet until the later stages of DS9. What I found annoying is why the writers never chose to expand on the storyline when the female changeling contacts them separetly. Why did she contact them directly? I always maintain that their species was on the verge of an evolution, possibly leading to some sort of new ability, maybe even shapeshifting. Maybe they were once like the Founders before before they evolved (the Founders were once confined to a single form). Would have been fantastic if the writers explored it further. We know very little about them. Their homeworld is considered to be a frozen wasteland (although Weyoun says their climate is quite hospitable). Cardassians are cold blooded creatures (reptilian) so it is unclear what he meant by that statement. Was it in relation to warm blooded creatures? Initially you are right OP regarding the Kamikaze tactics used by the Breen. When they attacked Earth they wanted to show their loyalty to the Dominion. They did not use their energy draining weapons yet (they would use them later on during the removal of Federation/Klingon/Romulan forces from the Chintoka system, an ace in the sleeve if you will). However when a defense was found to counteract their weapon they changed their tactics. The Jem H'adar used suicidal tactics against their enemies always (Japanese) unlike the Breen because they could be replaced at a moments notice. Klingon ships bore the front of this.

    The Klingons are born to fight. It is part of their legacy, left behind by Kahless. However the Jem H'adar are genetically created to fight and serve the Founders. They are replacable and within 3 days after creation are able to fight for themselves. The Klingons can never be like that. The war took it's toll on them. In a way they were very much like the French, Dutch and Belgians during WW2. They suffered greatly and in the end of the war, came out the worst. They also went through a change in leadership (Gowran killed by Worf to be replaced by Martok). As much as I loved Gowran in TNG this actually saved the Empire from destruction.

    The Romulans entered the war very late. In fact if they did not join the Federation/Klingon alliance the war would have been won by the Dominion. However they suffered huge losses when the Breen joined the Dominion. Their involvement is very similar to the Russians like you said during WW2. They did not suffer a change in government when the Tal Shiar/Obsidian Order joint taskforce was destroyed by the Dominion in the Gamma Quadrant. The Cardassian government fell specularly while the Romulans were able to quietly recover.

    And now onto the Federation. I believe the Federation was prepared for a war with the Dominion instead of what others think imo. When Q put the Enterprise into contact with the Borg it changed everything in the way the Federation, and especially Starfleet operated. That initial contact made them think more about defending themselves as new ships were built, new weapons designed. Confrontations with the Borg (the disaster at Wolf 359 is very similar to the Germans advance on France after Poland). The Defiant was a prototype, designed to fight the Borg. In the end Starfleet created this new battlefleet as several Defiant class ships were seen during the battles. Channeling phaser power through the warp core was a new approach to Starfleet's arsenal. This coupled with the creation of the quantum torpedo (huge improvement on the photon torpedo) gave them a more agressive bite. The sheer size of the Dominion (let's not forget about 2000 years of uninterrupted expansion and the weekly build-ups inside Cardassia) was immense. Coupled with the Dominion's agressive tactics and round the clock ship building. When they needed to survive, they did. They took chances and went on the offensive. Section 31 was part of the original Starfleet charter (Starfleet exisisted before the Federation and was introduced on Enterprise with the Malcolm storyline). When things need to get done, they do. The infection of the Founders through Odo was authorised by Starfleet (at the highest level). The Federation was willing to go to any lengths in order to survive. What does that say about humanity? In the end we are willing to do anything and everything to survive.

    If anyone read this I thank you. I have only scratched the surface with this. Had a few beers and a JD and Coke and was compelled to write this post.

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 155 ✭✭Ghostwarrior

    Well that covers the lot.... well done!

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,972 ✭✭✭orestes

    Interesting post that denman, cheers :)

  • Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭DenMan

    Well that covers the lot.... well done!
    orestes wrote: »
    Interesting post that denman, cheers :)

    No problem guys, thanks for reading the post, much appreciated.

  • Registered Users Posts: 17,727 ✭✭✭✭Sherifu

    DenMan wrote: »
    I have only scratched the surface with this. Had a few beers and a JD and Coke and was compelled to write this post.
    Please do continue. More brandy! :)