Project: P4 3Ghz, P4C800, VapoChill sytem to ~4Ghz

STaN

OK I'm looking to build an Xtreme Machiene. I have very little overclocking experience. So i guess this is a dive into the deep-end.

What I've got:

Intel P4 @ 3.06Ghz 800Mhz FSB
Asus P4C800 Delux Motherboard
2 * 512Mb Corsair 3200 Dimms 400Mhz CAS2
Enermax 431W Wisper Series PSU
Asus Ti4600 AGP Gfx Card with a Zalman heatsink installed
40Gb 7200 2mb ATA133 Seagate Silent HD
200Gb 7200 8mb ATA100 Western Digital HD
Vapochill Profesional Edition Case & Cooling system
Shin-Etsu Shin-Etsu Thermal Paste

What I'm looking to do is to get as much preformance out of the above. Maybe to 4Ghz, over it if possible.

I will be changing the Graphics card over the summer for a new nVidia FX card and will be looking to silently cool and tweak that too, but that is another issue.

I'll be posting my evolving voltages, timings, mods, FSB speeds, etc.

STaN

Followed the manual and the really helpfull guide on toms hardware found here : http://www4.tomshardware.com/howto/20030224/asetek_vapochill-07.html

Vapochill pics from their site:


fully installed & modded case


barebones of case


optional fan at hard drives


Side off


power, reset switches and power, activity leds


The cooling unit

STaN

Some pics from the installation and before any overclock begins

STaN

CPU is at -7degrees according to motherboard software and -20degrees according to the vapochill system

logic1

How much did all that cost you?

.logic.

Creamy Goodness

wow what a beast good job man!

where did u get them DVD and the CDRW drives they look well cool links please if ya can? or at least the brand names

Carnate

Stan

Do You wear sunglasses?


:@)

STaN

Originally posted by Cr3m0
where did u get them DVD and the CDRW drives they look well cool links please if ya can? or at least the brand names

Their samsung drives.

Top 1 is a 16x Dvd Drive
Bottom 1 is a 40x Cd-rw

CivilServant

What are you speeds now? You will be lucky even to reach 4 ghz. I would expect at least 3.6 and max out at 3.8. But if I spent as much money as you I would want 4 ghz as well

Let us know how you get on.

Matt Simis

We can benchmark it against my Prometeia (www.chip-con.com)!

I have a P4C 3.0 and a P4 3.06 to play with, aim is 4GHz too.

Oh, btw, you posted you have a "Intel P4 @ 3.06Ghz 800Mhz FSB".

The P4 3.06 is a 533mhz CPU and the P4 3.0 is the 800MHz one.. which do you have. Regardless, thanks to the high multipliers both have you shouldnt need to do any extra cooling to the motherboard, as the FSB will be lower than someone using a slower CPU on the mobo.


Matt

koneko

Tbh I don't think you'll get 4Ghz using a Vapochill (Prometeia, maybe), but GL anyways and enjoy the ride. Keep us updated.

greys

Yes, I think you've got 3.0Ghz, not 3.06Ghz.

3.06Ghz is for 533-fsb ones, and 3.0Ghz is the top of the 800-fsb ones to the day. That's what I've got just the other week, but I'm not going to overclock anything at least for a while.

BigEejit

How much was the case? and bits and bobs (not including CPU, mobo ram etc...)


I was wondering is there any system out there that would cool a CPU to 5 - 10deg C without load and under 20 with load? (hence avoiding all the condensation worries) ... would a water cooling system do this, are or they all based on ambient tempereatures(i.e. is there any sort of below ambient cooling for water based systems?)

Matt Simis

If you used a powerful Peltier coupled with a good watercooling setup it would get close to those temps under load, but still way lower when idle. Unless the device can intelligently vary the cooling ability based on load what you are suggesting is impossible.


The Prometeia shields the CPU area in a "shell", air tight, thereby completely preventing condensation. They also supply a heating element for the back of the CPU. The Vapochill has a similar although slightly more basic setup.



Matt

ctgilles

I win?

BigEejit

Originally posted by Matt Simis
If you used a powerful Peltier coupled with a good watercooling setup it would get close to those temps under load, but still way lower when idle. Unless the device can intelligently vary the cooling ability based on load what you are suggesting is impossible.

The Prometeia shields the CPU area in a "shell", air tight, thereby completely preventing condensation. They also supply a heating element for the back of the CPU. The Vapochill has a similar although slightly more basic setup.

Thats what I was thinking alright, pity someone didnt make a chilled water cooling system (temperature feedback should not be too difficult to do).... I'd imagine that would be a fairly large case .... heh, pc about a washing machine in size ...

ctgilles

When looking at costs / performance / practicality, the Prometeia is unbeatable... To get similar results, you'd need a pelt of at least 226W and chilled water that's like -10°... I tried it sometimes, it is not possible...

Btw, got higher

Matt Simis

CTGiles,


Want to fill us in on the details? How many CPUs did you try beforce getting such a nice one? Is it in anyway stable at that speed?

What about mobo, ram etc?



Matt


PS: You didnt happen to find this forum thru XtremeSystems.org did you?

STaN

Originally posted by Matt Simis
CTGiles,

PS: You didnt happen to find this forum thru XtremeSystems.org did you?

He probably did, i've a link to this forum on there.

Also CTGiles, your signiture image is a bit big, please read the forum rules.

My processor speed is 3006Mhz and has a 800Mhz FSB.

I know a guy o/c'ing to 4Ghz with watercooling. A vapochill should blow that out of the water. I'm organising a nortbridge fan and a fan bracket for the zalman GPU heatsink.

One thing though, i can't seem to be able to up the FSB over 200 in the bios??

CivilServant

I'm still hesitant to believe ctgilles. Did you pull that from overclockers.com? hehheh I need more proof.

Thorbar

Hey lads I did some overclocking too!

ctgilles

How 'bout this
SuperPI
PIfast

Cyrus

mate sorry but theres no way anyone has got a p4 to 4 gigs using just watercooling, at the moment its not possible

he's obviously using a 226w pelt with it which makes it more powerful than the vapo pe which iirc is 200w.

4 gigs might be out of ur reach, u should get close to it tho

ctgilles

Originally posted by Matt Simis
CTGiles,
Want to fill us in on the details? How many CPUs did you try beforce getting such a nice one? Is it in anyway stable at that speed?
What about mobo, ram etc?
Matt

First CPU, and having bad evap contact
My system is: IC7-G, P4 3.0C & 2.8C, R9800 PRO, 2x Maxtor Diamondmax 9 SATA 120GB RAID0, Prometeia.
Hauling 4Gig out with a Vapo is going to be rather hard for you, since the Vapochill is favorable in overall quality it get's its ass kicked by the Prometeia. Brute force is nice to have sometimes

STaN

Current CPU speed: 3750Mhz
CPU temp 0% load: -14oC
CPU temp 100% load: -1oC
FSB: 250Mhz
Memory: 200Mhz ( 5:4 divider )

System runs @ 3.8Ghz but crashes after 20mins of 100% load. I suspect its the northbridge cooling or the ram.

Gonna get a case fan sorted and see how it goes.

3.9Ghz posted, but windows gave a memory address error while booting. Which suggests a memory prob stopping any futher overclock.

4.1Ghz would not post. YET

Matt Simis

Originally posted by STaN
Current CPU speed: 3750Mhz
CPU temp 0% load: -14oC
CPU temp 100% load: -1oC
FSB: 250Mhz
Memory: 200Mhz ( 5:4 divider )

System runs @ 3.8Ghz but crashes after 20mins of 100% load. I suspect its the northbridge cooling or the ram.

I suspect its the CPU . Try disabling the onboard L2 cache and see if its more reliable. Where are you getting those temps... they seem a bit too good for a Vapochill?

Originally posted by STaN


3.9Ghz posted, but windows gave a memory address error while booting. Which suggests a memory prob stopping any futher overclock.

4.1Ghz would not post. YET

Well, just lower the memory divider.. you shouldnt run the memory flat out when trying to find the CPU limits anyway. Overclockers.com claim the system is faster with the FSB high and the memory forced lower anyhow.



Matt

Cyrus

Overclockers.com claim the system is faster with the FSB high and the memory forced lower anyhow

bigtoe on asusboards tried it out and said they were wrong tho i think what they meant was if it means u can push the cpu higher use the 3:2 div but if ur at the same speed the 4:5 is faster

Matt Simis

Yes, that would be sensible, but thats not what they are saying here:

http://www.overclockers.com/articles756/index02.asp

This time, FSB at 295MHz, memory at 196MHz. Same memory settings. Please note, the memory is actually running a little slower than the first two times.

Hmmmm. We slow down the memory and it goes faster.

Just to summarize the basic numbers:

FSB/Memory: Score
200/200: 4603/4593
220/220: 4954/4977
250/200: 5402/5416
275/220: 5881/5761
295/196: 5814/5807

Another Measurement

What does PCMark 2002 report for memory scores?

Here's just the raw scores:

200/200: 8118
220/220: 8667
250/200: 9206
275/220: 9824
295/196: 10479

They increased the FSB and lowered the memory and still pulled in higher memory speeds. Of course, this is assuming that Sandra\PCMark are reliable.



Matt

Cyrus

funny? ill try get big toes thread, i got my ic7 at the weekend and ive found i can get just about 3000/3000 (unbuffered) at default (12*200) but i cant break 3000 even at 12*220??

its very wierd, also some of the mem options cant be used when using a negative mem div

STaN

I suspect its the CPU . Try disabling the onboard L2 cache and see if its more reliable. Where are you getting those temps... they seem a bit too good for a Vapochill?

Well i have the vapochill setup to try to keep my CPU @ -29 (which it can't do) with the compressor at full speed and the fan @ 30%

I might try put that to 100% and see how that changes the temps.

Where i get the info from:

........ Vapochill Reading .... Motherboard Reading
Idle: ............ -22oC ..................... -14oC
Load: ........... -14oC ...................... -1oC

======

Might try the 3:2 @ 275Mhz FSB later. Might have to fiddle around with the voltages though to see if i can get it to post.

I can't see the CPU temp's being a prob though, only the motherboard.

STaN

Current CPU speed: 3906Mhz
CPU temp 0% load: -14oC
CPU temp 100% load: TBC
FSB: 260Mhz
Memory: 173.33Mhz ( 3:2 divider )

If it posts @ 3.9 with a 3:2 divider and not a 5:4 does this suggest the RAM can't handel it and i should try PC3700 ram opposed to PC3200 ram to try a higher memory clock at higher FSB's?

Cyrus

must be pretty bad pc3200 ram that wont do 208 fsb ive two sticks of twinmoss here that do 230, try lowering the ram timings or upping the voltage

Cyrus

oh and ur nb temps wont be a prob til at least 280 fsb mate, the nb runs pretty cool anyway

PPC

My twinmos pc2700 runs at 212 no problems

STaN

Originally posted by Matt Simis
We can benchmark it against my Prometeia (www.chip-con.com)!

I have a P4C 3.0 and a P4 3.06 to play with, aim is 4GHz too.


Matt

How you getting on Matt.

Im running @ 3.6Ghz stable at the moment. 3.9Ghz is fine but a bit dodgy sometimes.

lotas

4Gz. yahn! :P i have had a (theorectical) 4.8Gz system, for a while now. i have 2 Athlon 2400+ CPus on my board, totaling a power of 4.8Gz, but the P Rating (from SiSoft Sandra) is a staggering 5.5Gz i think! pretty sweet. pitty half the apps out their arnt multi tasking. that superpi thing works in about 65 seconds for 1m places. sweet system though. question to stan. im gathering its stable, but is it stable 24/7? like i havent turned my machine off in about 3 weeks and probably wont for a while, but could yours do that?

Matt Simis

Originally posted by lotas
4Gz. yahn! :P i have had a (theorectical) 4.8Gz system, for a while now. i have 2 Athlon 2400+ CPus on my board, totaling a power of 4.8Gz, but the P Rating (from SiSoft Sandra) is a staggering 5.5Gz i think! pretty sweet. pitty half the apps out their arnt multi tasking. that superpi thing works in about 65 seconds for 1m places. sweet system though. question to stan. im gathering its stable, but is it stable 24/7? like i havent turned my machine off in about 3 weeks and probably wont for a while, but could yours do that?

Well, by your logic I had a 6000+ System. 2x Athlon XPs running at 2400mhz each, rating of 3000 a piece (at least).
If only... even multithreaded apps dont benefit from a 100% increase in speed from SMP.


Matt

koneko

Originally posted by lotas
4Gz. yahn! :P i have had a (theorectical) 4.8Gz system, for a while now. i have 2 Athlon 2400+ CPus on my board, totaling a power of 4.8Gz, but the P Rating (from SiSoft Sandra) is a staggering 5.5Gz i think!

Err, I'm sure I needn't point out to you it doesn't work that way. You don't just add up the rating of the two CPUs together!

Matt Simis

Originally posted by STaN
How you getting on Matt.

Im running @ 3.6Ghz stable at the moment. 3.9Ghz is fine but a bit dodgy sometimes.

Im confused, how can it be "fine" and unstable at the same time!?

I run at 3.8GHz, which isnt "Prime95" stable, but is good enough for games (ie doesnt crash after playing a game for 10hrs+) and every other app I tried.

I can get to 3.9 but get bluescreens. I believe this is due to my CPU\Motherboard. I cant increase the voltage over 1.7v. Doing do makes the PC shutdown immediately. Users of the same board (Abit IC7) claim they dont have this problem... but I tried with two seperate CPUs!

The 2.8 800MHz FSB CPU is what I use mainly (its the one at 3.8GHz). I also tried the older 3.06 533 FSB CPU, it achieved 4GHz into Windows (still maxed at 1.7v) but wasnt as reliable or fast (thanks to lower FSB) as the 2.8GHz CPU at 3.8GHz.

I might try push for 3.9GHz Stable this evening.



Matt

STaN

Im confused, how can it be "fine" and unstable at the same time!?

Its fine in most cases,

Im currently at a voltage of 1.65V for the 3.6Ghz mark.

I can boot @ 3.9Ghz but in benchmarks it freezes up. The system posts at 4.0Ghz but i get a memory blue screen just before windows loads.

ctgilles

I noticed some i875P boards won't function good around the 280MHz mark, I noticed this with 2 of my IC7-G with mods on it
Eventually got a P4C800, but due to it over and undervolting it wasn't really first choice

Matt Simis

Originally posted by ctgilles
I noticed some i875P boards won't function good around the 280MHz mark, I noticed this with 2 of my IC7-G with mods on it
Eventually got a P4C800, but due to it over and undervolting it wasn't really first choice

So, is the P4C800 a better board for attaining high clock speed? How can it both under and over volt?

What speed is your 2.8 at?


Matt

ctgilles

I sold my P4 rig a while ago

The P4C800 overvolts in idle, making 1.5V -> 1.57V, while loading, it goes all the way to 1.45V giving a nice undervolt