Health Service Reforms

Lemming

I swear to god the powers-that-be have been reading the thread on "how to improve the country" (here ). The health-service reforms being proposed are rather similar to what I suggested. Anyway:

From RTE Online

The Goverment has endorsed a radical restructuring of the health services at today's weekly Cabinet meeting.

The plan is based on a joint memorandum from the Departments of Health and Finance.

It aims to shift day-to-day control of the health services from the Department and health boards to a centralised Health Service Executive.

Four regional health offices will replace the eleven health boards, including the Eastern Regional Health Authority.

A National Hospitals Agency will take over the running of the country's hospitals.

Much of the plan is expected to be implemented within the next three years.

The Taoiseach told the Dail that the government will publish two of the three health reports tomorrow. He said that the third report has not yet been completed, but that it would be published as soon as it is ready.

The Minister for Health has been holding briefing sessions with senior officials from the Dept of Health and the Health Boards in Dublin this afternoon.

Micheal Martin has been outlining the details of the Government's proposed Health spending reform plan.

Already some Government backbenchers have criticised the plan; they say that it will end the local input into their health services.

Local councillors play a significant role in health boards, and membership is seen as an important part of a political career, both in terms of local influence and profile.

I think that removing the politicians from the equation is a good idea. Health is too important to be a political football, and these local consellors are afraid that they wont be able to make themselves look good by making johnny-the-farmer jump a 5 year waiting list by contacting the hospital/clinic in question.

juno75

lol,sweet

See chaps, we can change the country:D

Cork

Local public representatives are moaning about the death of local democracy. Consultants are also pretty unhappy.

Michael Martin needs to plough ahead with reform and igore local politicians and consultants.

de5p0i1er

Originally posted by Cork
Local public representatives are moaning about the death of local democracy. Consultants are also pretty unhappy.

Michael Martin needs to plough ahead with reform and igore local politicians and consultants.

Consultants get payed a load of money to do nothing and then work in the private sector while junior docters do there work for them, if there unhappy then i saw though mabye now they'll start doing there jobs instead of passing there work off and earning more on the side, they get payed enough.

Trebor

Originally posted by Cork
Local public representatives are moaning about the death of local democracy. Consultants are also pretty unhappy.

Michael Martin needs to plough ahead with reform and igore local politicians and consultants.

he can only do that if the money is available, there have been previous reports but no money to back them up so they fell through. so we have to wait and see what McCreevy says about the report.

Cork

The money is there. 9 billion Euro. very brown cent of which should be spent effectively.

The health system needs reform big time. Smaller hospitals need to be shut down or down graded and Centres of Excellence need to be set up.

I think €2000 is being spent on the system for every man woman & Child in this country.

It is not a question about the lack of money. It is about how current allocations are been spent.

Trebor

Originally posted by Cork
The money is there. 9 billion Euro. very brown cent of which should be spent effectively.

The health system needs reform big time. Smaller hospitals need to be shut down or down graded and Centres of Excellence need to be set up.

I think €2000 is being spent on the system for every man woman & Child in this country.

It is not a question about the lack of money. It is about how current allocations are been spent.

true but we have to keep the current system running until the new one is set up to take over and that will take an initial investment which is up to McCreevy to authorise.

and that's €6000 that a tax payer has to pay as only a third of the population is paying income tax. (rough estimates)

Cork

There is no point is throwing good money after bad. We don't need to have a good and bad system running together. The current system needs to be transformed.


It is not rocket science. We are talking about the effective use of taxes. As a taxpayers - we deserve that our tax money is spent effectively.

Sparks

It's not rocket science. In rocket science, you can say "this saturn V booster is crap, we need somthing better", scrap the booster, spend a decade or so building the next one, not have a manned presence in space during all that time, and then finally introduce a less-capable, more dangerous and more expensive booster as a result.

It's medicine - and I'd rather not be in a car accident and die because we were "transfoming the health system" and didn't bother to ensure a smooth handover.

bonkey

Originally posted by Cork
The current system needs to be transformed.

Sure...and if it was possible to do it all in one short, swift re-org, and if it was actually beneficial to do so...don't you think it would have been done by now?

Or are you actually going to heap genuine criticism on Fianna Fail for failing to do this over the past decade or more?

Oh...and with this big re-org...exactly what do we do with the thousands who lose their jobs? Just shove them on the dole? You wont complain about the massive jump in unemployment as a result, will you? Nor the social and potential economic impacts of such an employment shift?

Just wondering...seeing as you seem to think its no tough nut to crack and all....

jc

Trebor

Originally posted by bonkey
Sure...and if it was possible to do it all in one short, swift re-org, and if it was actually beneficial to do so...don't you think it would have been done by now?

Or are you actually going to heap genuine criticism on Fianna Fail for failing to do this over the past decade or more?

Oh...and with this big re-org...exactly what do we do with the thousands who lose their jobs? Just shove them on the dole? You wont complain about the massive jump in unemployment as a result, will you? Nor the social and potential economic impacts of such an employment shift?

Just wondering...seeing as you seem to think its no tough nut to crack and all....

jc

i am sure that they will keep all of the medical staff and move them to the "centre's of excellance" the people who will lose there job's will be the midle managment and administration staff all who i am sure will get big severance packages and won't be long finding another job.

I agree with that it can not be done in one short, quick re-org.
we are talking about peoples lives here and if it cost money to have a safe change over then that will be money well spent as in the long run we will get a reformed health service with out the loss of life.

Imposter

Originally posted by Trebor
i am sure that they will keep all of the medical staff and move them to the "centre's of excellance" the people who will lose there job's will be the midle managment and administration staff all who i am sure will get big severance packages and won't be long finding another job.

You forgot to mention that it would be cheaper to pay them dole money than pay them for a job that's not exactly neccessary. The money all comes from public monies, albeit different departments.

Paddy20

I just hope that in these new plans. A new fast track treatment service is introduced for Irelands number one killer disease i.e. Coronary Artery Disease.

In my region. The North Western Health Board covering Donegal, Leitrim & Sligo we do not have any proper heart disease treatment facilities and have to wait to be sent to Dublin which can mean death before treatment in many cases.

Paddy20.

Cork

I feel that needs to just start taking on vested interests and to cutting areas where wastage of public monies occurs.

We have got to accept - every county town may not have a hospital.

We also need the development of Centres of Excellence in this country.

This process of reform needs to start immediately not in 1 or 2 years time.

Originally posted by Cork
We have got to accept - every county town may not have a hospital.

Out of curiosity Cork, have you any idea where the local Fianna Fáil T.D's in the Cavan Monaghan constituency stand in relation to facilities in the two hospitals in that constituency??
mm

Cork

Originally posted by Man
Out of curiosity Cork, have you any idea where the local Fianna Fáil T.D's in the Cavan Monaghan constituency stand in relation to facilities in the two hospitals in that constituency??
mm

I think that all our public representatives need to bite the bullet on health reform and stop using it as a cheap political football.

As an electorate, we deserve a far better health service. We will not get one by lobbying to keep the existing one & existing practices.

bonkey

Thats a no then?

jc

Cork

It is a definate no.

I surpose, they support their local hospitals. I think - untill an alternative is available to small country hospitals - you get reluctance to change.

I have no answers to the hospital problems in this country - but we need Centres where there is first rate expertise to treat a range of conditions.

We probably still need some local hospitals to treat routine complaints.

Trebor

Originally posted by Cork
We probably still need some local hospitals to treat routine complaints.

we need local emergency wards and day clinc's, with GP's.


any thing requiring major sugery that is not life or death at that moment should be referred to centre's of excellence.

Victor

About people complaing about the amount spent on administration. In 2003, administration (central administration and Health Boards) is expected to take up €187m out of €8,593m current expenditure (i.e. excluding capital expenditure) budget.

http://www.doh.ie/statistics/stats/sectionl.html

So while 15% of staff is in Management/Admin. they only account for 2% of the budget.

http://www.doh.ie/statistics/stats/sectionk.html

Cork

Originally posted by Victor
About people complaing about the amount spent on administration. In 2003, administration (central administration and Health Boards) is expected to take up €187m out of €8,593m current expenditure (i.e. excluding capital expenditure) budget.

http://www.doh.ie/statistics/stats/sectionl.html

So while 15% of staff is in Management/Admin. they only account for 2% of the budget.

http://www.doh.ie/statistics/stats/sectionk.html

But by strimlining administration - efficencys in other areas may very well be achieved.