Old sayings distorted by time/ignorance

seamus

This is something that's only occured to me since reading bulletin boards. But some sayings become badly distorted either because people don't realise what they're actually saying, or because of bad grammar.

For example, some people say (and I've heard it said this way on TV too);

"As God as my witness.....etc"

Now, this makes no sense. Hands up who says this But I don't know what the 'correct' way to say it is, I can only guess. I have two suggestions, which both make sense, and which fit the context nicely

"As God is my witness....etc"
"With God as my witness....etc"
Personally, I'd use the latter

Another one is....

"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"

Makes sense and does fit the context, but isn't correct It should be

"Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn"

Which, as most men will attest to, is much more apt


Anyone else have any little phrases distorted by time?

Amz

I've heard the phrase "A damp squid" used a lot lately, in fact I think there is a poster who uses that name on boards.

Anyway the correct phrase is "A damp squib" and that can also be a job for people, look up the meaning of squib if you don't already know it.

Meh!

There are more, but I'm too hot and cranky to start right now!

Talliesin

Originally posted by seamus
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned"

Makes sense and does fit the context, but isn't correct It should be

"Hell hath no fury like a woman's scorn"

No, it should be "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor Hell a Fury like a woman scorned", of which the former phrase (which you claim is incorrect) is a close abbreviation of. Your suggestion has a completely different meaning.

The source is The Mourning Bride by William Congreve.

Your suggestion is more in-line with modern use of the word "fury", which these days is primarily used to mean a feeling of intense anger. The quote probably refers to the Eumenides (to use a name they found less offensive ) of Greek mythology, who were supposed to reside in Hades, and were often poetically portrayed residing in the Christian Hell:

John Webster: The White Devil
"There's but three Furies found in spacious hell;
But in a great man's breast three thousand dwell."

While the phrase about a "woman scorned" still works with the other definition of "Fury" Congreve's is probably actually comparing such a woman with a female mythological figure. Such a use of the word does not fit with your suggestion.

elexes

what a weird board must visit more often

simu

THat is, basically, how languages evolve. Every generation uses language slightly differently and when you take a longer view (say compare 18th century English with today's), this becomes more apparent.
That's why I love dictionaries with good etymology sections!

pickarooney

The expressions "I don't care less" and "I could care less", instead of "I couldn't care less".

sceptre

Originally posted by Talliesin
No, it should be "Heaven has no rage like love to hatred turned, Nor Hell a Fury like a woman scorned", of which the former phrase (which you claim is incorrect) is a close abbreviation of. Your suggestion has a completely different meaning.

Bah, beat me to it:)

Capt'n Midnight

The original is just soooo descriptive....

Flutter By...

sceptre

Not an "old saying", but asparagus was once called "sparrow grass". "Asparagus" came much later.

Mangled stuff from snopes. Keeping it vaguely on topic they've a nice page about people who put an extra s when spelling "just deserts"

Capt'n Midnight

It being a triangle - much like the one used in snooker and for a similar purpose - to hold the balls in place - but brass contracts more than the iron in the cannon balls

And there was the whole Sex Pistols court case involving the litteral meaning of "talking bollocks" which is another non genital reference. (It refers to long-winded 18th century sermons)

ColinM

Ok, I have thought of something that is relevant to this thread, and conveniently, it ties in nicely with my crusade to get people to stop butchernig the fricking English language!

How many times have you heard someone (who doesn't deserve to live) say something like "Well, a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, to coin a phrase"?

[Denis Leary mode ON]
Well, if you've ever said something like that, let me tell you this, moron - you didn't just coin a phrase - that phrase existed long before you were born, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that you're too stupid to ever coin a phrase of your own.
Yes, that's right - to coin a phrase means to make a new phrase. It's not just "something you say" after you use a fricking cliché. I'll bet you'd easily get outwitted by a tadpole's fecal matter (to coin a phrase), you dolt!
[Denis Leary has left the building]

Oh, and don't bother playing that fantastically witty "dragging up old posts" gathering card. Things seem to move at a slower pace here in the English forum!

CuLT

Originally posted by ColinM

Denis Leary mode ON]
Well, if you've ever said something like that, let me tell you this, moron - you didn't just coin a phrase - that phrase existed long before you were born, and I'll bet my bottom dollar that you're too stupid to ever coin a phrase of your own.
Yes, that's right - to coin a phrase means to make a new phrase. It's not just "something you say" after you use a fricking cliché. I'll bet you'd easily get outwitted by a tadpole's fecal matter (to coin a phrase), you dolt!
[Denis Leary has left the building]

Here's some creative phrase coining for you.

Shut up, dickweed.

ColinM

Jayzus!
Look - I'm ranting - but it's a style of writing that I use in an attempt to be humourous. None of what I say is ever actually intended to be taken as a personal attack on anyone.

ColinM

Oh, and I meant to say as well - are you familiar with Denis Leary? That was written in the style of a Denis Leary rant. If you've never heard of him then I can see where you're coming from maybe.

ColinM

Last "PS" hopefully - and I can't help being pedantic about this - but "Shut up, dickweed" already existed.

CuLT

It all comes across as very pedantic and quite anal when reading.

Also, putting [Denis Leary] tags around you're rant doesn't make it more acceptable, just more annoying.

The kind of rigor you expect from people is ridiculous and some of your previous posts are discriminatory, bordering racist.

Amz

Colin please note the “edit” button which is available should you need to amend any of your posts.

ColinM

Yeah, I can imagine how that might be alright. People do remark time and again that without seeing someone's face and hearing their tone, anything written is open to different interpretations. I always thought I expressed myself well enough so as to not need to use emoticons (I never have in over a decade of using the internet) but I'll think again about the reasons why I don't use them and see whether they still out-weigh the reasons to use them.

By the way, I have recently admitted to being a racist in this post. With regard to how I discriminate and form opinions, please read my posts in this thread from here. For my thoughts on Political Correctness, please read this post. Please read these cos they will be relevant if you are interested in forming an opinion about me.

I do want to re-iterate, that in just about all the postings I've made in the English forum, and most of my posts in Boards.ie, I have had my tongue firmly in my cheek.

Yokay?

CuLT

Anyone who is so utterly ignorant as to be a racist has absolutely none of my time.

End.

ColinM

Ok, look, obviously this is all off topic, but this does need to be clarified.
I have noticed that as I go through life I have made assumptions about people based on their characteristics. These assumptions are based on prior experiences I have had of people who share the same characteristics. Therefore, I call myself a racist.

I don't think I have met anyone who has not prejudged somebody in this way. This is how the thought processes of all intelligent life operate - at its basic level, it goes "stimulus, reaction to stimulus, memory generated of stimulus, altered reaction to same stimulus when encountered again".

And yet there seem to be so many people who say they are not racist...

Amz

Colin, please take your Personal Issues to the relevant forum.

Thanks

Empyrial

I honestly abhor being the one to do this, but I've always strongly endorsed numerous theories of both relativity and subjectivity.

Context, regardless of how cliche the idiom, is left to be discerned by all involved audiences, however prone it [said turn of phrase] may be to sweeping generalizations.