Writing a guide

banquo

Now, I KNOW people tend to think it's unoriginial, etc, but all the best books and films follow the same plot, from LOTR to star wars to Haary Potter to the Bible.
Anyway, i thought i'd get this little baby down on paper, and it's first draft is about half finished.

Here's a Preview:

A Quick rundown:
Born into a remote and safe environment, the Hero travels into the world of adventure when prompted to do so by the Mentor. Here they meet up with the “Male Assistant”, and all together leave the world of adventure and travel into the “Belly of the Whale” After completing some set tasks and trials, the hero liberates the Goddess, and all four make a break to escape the Whale, the Mentor staying behind to ensure their safe retreat. Once back in the world of adventure, they plot the destruction of their enemy, the “evil father”, and carry it out. The end?
Freedom to Live.

Think back to your school English class. Remember Shakespeare? Remember his plays?

Never mind. In fact, nuts to Shakespeare. Think of any play at all. One thing in common? They’re all divided into ACTS.
The format we’re dealing with in this guide, ‘Epic’, is divided into a “3-Act Structure”.
In the first Act, Departure, there are 5 stages of the journey:

1. World of Common Day
2. Call to Adventure
3. Hero meets the Mentor
4. Refusal of the Call
5. Crossing the Threshold

In the Second Act, The Belly of the Whale, there is only one stage, but it’s quite messy: it is the goings on inside the Temple Interior.

In the Third Act, The Return Journey, there are four stages:
1. Refusal of the Return
2. Flight with the Trophy
3. Back in the World
4. Master of the Two Worlds
5. Freedom to Live

And that’s how it works!

simu

Aha! That explains why I find Harry Potter, the Bible and Star Wars interminably boring:)

Capt'n Midnight

and end up with only a few basic plots

Hero safe / happy
offered part in quest
refuses
something bad happens
now accepts quest
looses initial encounter with bad guys (eg: captured & escapes)
finds mentor
trains
sneaks up on superior enemy (ie, not adhering to warrior code )
big battle
all looks lost at one stage
hero saves the day
gets girl etc.

some of the middle steps can be swapped around...

RicardoSmith

Best books and films as rated by whom? I agree if you said popular books and films. Not if you say best. What you are talking about are stories design for the mass market and that are intended to entertain and cater for the broadest market possible. You could even say lowest common denominator.

banquo

whether a book is interesting or not also depends on how well the plan is executed, and on how well the author writes. anyway, sice someone asked, heres a list:

Harry Potter
LOTR
Every Spielberg movie
Most Religions
Every cowboy film
Most of todays big action films
More but i forget
Oh yeah, star wars

RicardoSmith

Its a subjective opinion. Lisa and Homer do not like the same books. So your plan doesn't satisfy everyone.

banquo

...does homer read books?

admittedly it doesn't satisfy EVERYONE, but then some peoples opinions shouldn't be allowed count on some subjects.

I mean, JESUS people.

In the guide i go into more detail than just whats above: usung myth and phsycology to make characters more fearsome/appealing, ancient and familiar motifs, etc.

cerebus

Originally posted by robbb_mm
In the guide i go into more detail than just whats above: usung myth and phsycology to make characters more fearsome/appealing, ancient and familiar motifs, etc.

An interesting idea, but also one that has been explored by others (just in case you thought you were onto something new and earth-shattering - sorry!)

I'd recommend a quick look at the work of Joseph Campbell if you are interested in what he had to say about the subject. His take was that "all myths and epics are linked in the human psyche, and that they are cultural manifestations of the universal need to explain social, cosmological, and spiritual realities" (nicked from that website)

Looking even further back, you can check out stuff like the Golden Bough (Frazer) for some early work in the field of comparative mythology and anthropology.

banquo

:eek: :eek: :eek:


...

you know about Joseph CAmpbell?!? OMG!!!!

took me WEEKs to track down his book "the hero with a thousand faces".

But, if you actually read it, you'll discover that actually trying to read it is very very difficult - these academic types are nototious for their poor writing.
It's a fantastic book, but would act as a poor guide for anyone wanting to write tehir own story. I'd like to write a modern, more understandable guide that any old idiot could follow and write his/her own film.

THe First part of the book would be teh common motifs (the scar, mad hair,), and maybe some character outlines. The second part of the book would be the steps of the Hero's journey, and finally i'd through in oedipal and mythological ways to enhance the mood, characters and plot.

A guy called Chris Vogler tried to do it, but i've read it and it's crap, CRAP! JESUS!

Anyway whaddyas think?

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by robbb_mm
...does homer read books?

admittedly it doesn't satisfy EVERYONE, but then some peoples opinions shouldn't be allowed count on some subjects.

I mean, JESUS people.

In the guide i go into more detail than just whats above: usung myth and phsycology to make characters more fearsome/appealing, ancient and familiar motifs, etc.

Isn't this exactly how Mr Lucas came up with the ideas and concepts in Star Wars?

Its a pretty common concept.

Talliesin

Originally posted by robbb_mm
you know about Joseph CAmpbell?!? OMG!!!!

You know about Joseph Campbell? OMG! Why are you planning yet another rehash of The Hero with a Thousand Faces. The argument that its difficult doesn't hold, people who aren't prepared to expend effort should be discouraged from writing stories, not encouraged.

banquo

In a way thats true, but a lot of the stuff in 1000 FACES could be scrapped for the purposes of a guide. And, those looking for a guide to writing would never come across it, only those people interested in mythy stuff. All our potential Booker-prize nominees would only get Voglers **** book, and immediatly be discouraged from writing a damn good story.

Fence

If you can get a publisher interested then defo go for it. After all just because there are a few similar books out there shouldn't stop anyone. Once there is something new, or retouched as well as well-written (unlike that sentence) then hopefully some one will be interested.

I mean look at how many history books covering the same topic are available. Just because something has been written about once, doesn't mean no one else should try.

Course if you don't wanna get it published just stick it on the web. You won't make money, but might get people discussing it.

cerebus

Originally posted by Fence
just because there are a few similar books out there shouldn't stop anyone

and

I mean look at how many history books covering the same topic are available. Just because something has been written about once, doesn't mean no one else should try.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that it wasn't worthwhile or that it shouldn't be attempted. However, I don't know if you are familiar with the structure of Campbell's work referred to above? (The Hero with a Thousand Faces)

Looking at the outline provided in the first post,

Originally posted by robb_mm

In the first Act, Departure, there are 5 stages of the journey:

1. World of Common Day
2. Call to Adventure
3. Hero meets the Mentor
4. Refusal of the Call
5. Crossing the Threshold

In the Second Act, The Belly of the Whale, there is only one stage, but it’s quite messy: it is the goings on inside the Temple Interior.

In the Third Act, The Return Journey, there are four stages:
1. Refusal of the Return
2. Flight with the Trophy
3. Back in the World
4. Master of the Two Worlds
5. Freedom to Live

This happens to be almost exactly the way Campbell structured his work. It's all very well writing about the same theme, but plagiarising Campbell's book probably shouldn't be encouraged... I'd be much more interested in seeing new analysis in the field of comparative mythology.

banquo

Since Campbells book, there have been a few imitations, but Campbell's is still the best book out there. 1000 faces is based mostly around these steps, as are most other books, but in mine these would only take up about 1/3 of it: another third as sort of a listing of common motifs e.g. the scar, the underworld, the hair, and a lot of other things not mentioned in 1000 faces.
In the final 1/3 i include phsycological ways to power your story and its characters; something campbell did, but examples are scattered around the book.

This book would be sort of a "for Dummies" guide - something that you could just pick up and begin reading at nearly any point in the book: one does not have to be familiar with plot structure to learn some basic phsycological, and nor does one have to be familiar with motifs of the hero's development to enjoy comparing modern children's fiction with adult action movies.