Flat Rate Internet

thecivvie

Does anyone know if any of the new Flat Rate Internet products are going to allow 24/7 access, ie similar to BB but without the speed

flamegrill

Hi,

The access will be 24/7, that is you can go on anytime 24 hours 7 days a week and use the allotted hours. UTV have not announced the number of hours that they will be giving yet, Esat have given 180, which tbh people on UTV use already so thats not much of an increase. I believe there will be a 5 hour cutt off with UTV on their offering. Bare in mind the details for these products are not supposed to be officially announced until the 27th of this month. Some or all of the above information be incorrect, but to the best of my knowledge it is 100% correct.

Paul

thecivvie

This is the problem, NTL well at least in the UK and most of the other ISPs allow dialup users to be online 24/7. 180 hours is nothing, so after a week, I would have to pay again.

So in otherwords because I live in a rural area will never have access to BB, I lose out again.

Sean

bizmark

u dont lose out ........ come on you cant really expect a telecoms company to let you stay on line for 24 hours a day 7 days a week (unless you have bb)

am i not right in thinking a 56k user (like me) dials up to a modem in the exchange and theirs only a certian number of modems on the line ?.SOOOOOOOOOOOOO if 46 people left on their 56k all night ever night most light user,s etc wont be able to get on

Ronan|Raven

Well all the excitement surrounding flatrate has been swiftly washed away with the most likely event of a tiered pay for a block of hours style service. Oh well whats new in this country.

LFCFan

FRIACO will be essential for people who need or want access at peak hours. 180 hours is more than enough for the majority of internet users but now they will be able to use them at any time of the day.

thecivvie

Originally posted by bizmark
u dont lose out ........ come on you cant really expect a telecoms company to let you stay on line for 24 hours a day 7 days a week (unless you have bb)

am i not right in thinking a 56k user (like me) dials up to a modem in the exchange and theirs only a certian number of modems on the line ?.SOOOOOOOOOOOOO if 46 people left on their 56k all night ever night most light user,s etc wont be able to get on

So you can do it in other countries, the US, UK and others. so why not here.

thecivvie

Originally posted by LFCFan
FRIACO will be essential for people who need or want access at peak hours. 180 hours is more than enough for the majority of internet users but now they will be able to use them at any time of the day.

So if you want 24/7 access and cannot have BB then basically you are f**ked

Same story different name

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by tcob1
So if you want 24/7 access and cannot have BB then basically you are f**ked

Same story different name

Exactly

LFCFan

FRIACO has never been a real 24/7 product. It can be used at any time 365 days a year, 24 hours a day and your online time is part of the subscription fee but that's it. You really can't expect a dial up product to be 24/7 always on because by it's very nature it wouldn't be viable as all the modems in the ISP's end would be used up and there would be very limited access for the people who don't want to be connected all the time.

SkepticOne

The main benefit of broadband is 24/7 always on access. FRIACO was never going to deliver that. It does not deliver that in the UK.

The main benefit of FRIACO is far cheaper on-peak calls.

LFCFan

Originally posted by SkepticOne
The main benefit of FRIACO is far cheaper on-peak calls.

Exactly!

thecivvie

Originally posted by LFCFan
FRIACO has never been a real 24/7 product. It can be used at any time 365 days a year, 24 hours a day and your online time is part of the subscription fee but that's it. You really can't expect a dial up product to be 24/7 always on because by it's very nature it wouldn't be viable as all the modems in the ISP's end would be used up and there would be very limited access for the people who don't want to be connected all the time.

I know what FRIACO is supposed to provide but what I am saying is that for people wjo live outside of BB enabled areas and areas that will/may never get BB the only option we have is a phone line. I am currently around 300+ hours a month, therefore any of the existing options will set me back a fortune, as it does anyway

So maybe my ownly choiuce is to take out 2 subscriptions to two different FRIACO options and keep my SNL as well. Hey Mr bank manager can I have a n unlimited overdraft :ninja:

Sean

thecivvie

Originally posted by SkepticOne
The main benefit of broadband is 24/7 always on access. FRIACO was never going to deliver that. It does not deliver that in the UK.

The main benefit of FRIACO is far cheaper on-peak calls.

NTL uk had/have a 24/7 dialup access account that was available for a minimual charge. I used it and had my pc online 24/7 on a dialup mopem

Digiweb is beginnimg to look interesting.

Sean

SkepticOne

Originally posted by tcob1
NTL uk had/have a 24/7 dialup access account that was available for a minimual charge. I used it and had my pc online 24/7 on a dialup mopem

Probably not based on FRIACO.

SkepticOne

Originally posted by tcob1
I know what FRIACO is supposed to provide but what I am saying is that for people wjo live outside of BB enabled areas and areas that will/may never get BB the only option we have is a phone line. I am currently around 300+ hours a month, therefore any of the existing options will set me back a fortune, as it does anyway

So maybe my ownly choiuce is to take out 2 subscriptions to two different FRIACO options and keep my SNL as well. Hey Mr bank manager can I have a n unlimited overdraft :ninja:

Or look at cutting down your hours a bit.

thecivvie

Originally posted by SkepticOne
Or look at cutting down your hours a bit.

Jezz I could not do that, I would get withdrawals

PiE

With DSL, there's never any "busy tones" right? Everyone can connect, it may be slow if they do but they can. They share a limited amount of bandwidth.

Why can't that be done with 56k? A 2mb pipe would serve er... "a lot" of 56k'ers, so why can't they all be connected to that instead of individual 56k modem banks (or whatever) like they are now?

thecivvie

PiE, that is a great suggestion.

I suggest we start a new branch of IOFFL, demanding fair play for modem users

RicardoSmith

Originally posted by tcob1
I know what FRIACO is supposed to provide but what I am saying is that for people wjo live outside of BB enabled areas and areas that will/may never get BB the only option we have is a phone line. I am currently around 300+ hours a month, therefore any of the existing options will set me back a fortune, as it does anyway

So maybe my ownly choiuce is to take out 2 subscriptions to two different FRIACO options and keep my SNL as well. Hey Mr bank manager can I have a n unlimited overdraft :ninja:

Sean

Theres also people who live INSIDE BB enabled areas who can't get BB for god only knows what reason.

thecivvie

Theres also people who live INSIDE BB enabled areas who can't get BB for god only knows what reason.

This is true and I think that my only option is a Wireless or Satelite linkup. I run a BBS and that is why I want a 24/7 connection

Sean

Capt'n Midnight

There are rumours of an always on connection using the D channel of an IDSN line (ie. 9.6K 24/7) - if you are within 18km

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100457

Great for downloading overnight from satellite - but sod all use for BBS unless text based

You might be able to use rules to only dial FRIACOn numbers at peak times.. - or use a call back based system on using the ISDN thingy - you can't host the bbs somewhere else and remote manage it ?

seamus

Originally posted by PiE
With DSL, there's never any "busy tones" right? Everyone can connect, it may be slow if they do but they can. They share a limited amount of bandwidth.

Why can't that be done with 56k? A 2mb pipe would serve er... "a lot" of 56k'ers, so why can't they all be connected to that instead of individual 56k modem banks (or whatever) like they are now?

It's a nice idea, but would require some major changes and some major costs, which no telco will take. The problem exists in the local loop. A 56k modem just places a phone call over the standard PSTN line, using the standard, years-old PSTN protocols (for want of a better word).

DSL though doesn't place a phone call. Its essentially hardwired to the exchange, which in turn just forwards its traffic to the Internet.

Phone call nature is such that the line is only held for the time until the receiver is put down. It was never designed for data traffic. A situation where an ISP would allow more users access then it has modems would require implementation of the V.92 standard, and, when the no. of users exceeds the no. of modems, each modem becomes a timeshare system. Each dialup line is allotted a slot on the system, and gets a few seconds to transmit on a modem, before being held again(put on call waiting effectively), and freeing up the modem for another line.
Again, all very costly and time consuming, i.e. not worth it for the telco.

I would say the only hope for many rural users is pure VOIP - if/when the local loop is replaced with data lines and the old analogue system is retired.
Many, many years away though.

(Sorry if any of that is confusing/inaccurate, I'm quite hungover)

thecivvie

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
There are rumours of an always on connection using the D channel of an IDSN line (ie. 9.6K 24/7) - if you are within 18km

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=100457

Great for downloading overnight from satellite - but sod all use for BBS unless text based

You might be able to use rules to only dial FRIACOn numbers at peak times.. - or use a call back based system on using the ISDN thingy - you can't host the bbs somewhere else and remote manage it ?

I am getting ISDN becausew of allowing dual channel connections to the net, so maybe I will get a FRIACO connection for daytime use and keep my snl for evenings

Cerunnos

some of you people's attitude to the flat rate internet access is akin to the empathy a hostage feel for his/her kidnapper. we have been held to ransom by Eircom and there j like mindset, and yet now you are apologist for them by saying that it just isn't feasible for them to allow unlimited access by modem. sure Ireland is small, but your arguement falls down when you look at Countries like Luxembourg who have unlimited internet access via a modem for a flat fee every month. For all the money
Eircom have made over the years they can easily afford it. i don't wish to be too adversarial but i just can't understand how some of you are happy with a derisory offer of 180 hours a month.

dahamsta

Lost your bridge?

thecivvie

This is exactly what I am trying to say, this country needs to get of it's a**e and see what is happening. So what they give us an limited amount of online time, but even still Eircom will make a profit.

Please wake up and smell the roses. I joined this forum because I believe in what the IOFFL stands but shurely this is a point in case or are we giving up because a few get BB

Sean

BoneCollector

Question!?

Why!? would you want to be conected 24/7 @ 56kbs

Dont any of you sleep!?
dont any of you have a life outside of 24/7

or is it that what your unrealisticaly after is 24x7x30= 5040 hrs per month?!
Thats just not! going to happen on 56k so get over it, be realistic and Move on... :rolleyes:

LFCFan

Originally posted by BoneCollector
Question!?

Why!? would you want to be conected 24/7 @ 56kbs

Dont any of you sleep!?
dont any of you have a life outside of 24/7

or is it that what your unrealisticaly after is 24x7x30= 5040 hrs per month?!
Thats just not! going to happen on 56k so get over it, be realistic and Move on... :rolleyes:

Finally, someone speaks a bit of sense on the FRIACO issue. FRIACO is NOT a 24/7 product. It's a 'use any time of the day for a set price' product. For 24/7 we need broadband (without a cap) and FRIACO will increase awareness and demand for broadband. In other words, FRIACO is a step in the right direction for us to get broadband nationwide.

BKtje

tcob1: i gotta disagree with you im afraid.

You will be saving money so i dont see why you'd need a bank overdraft. (larger than ur current one )

Even in the Uk FRIACO isnt supposed to be 24/7. They have a 2 hour cut off (or similar) on most isps to stop people from just leaving it dloading 24/7.
I wish this wasnt the case but it is.

The new products are a start from which better products will develop and in time Broadband for all. It is not something to be used as 'broadband' for ppl who dont care about dload speeds just connectivity.

I'm just happy that the old bill will be coming down some more again meaning less profit for eircom (in short term ne way).
I have nothing against Eircom making a profit as long as they invest some of it into the network etc. That is where the problem lies

No one is giving up...

Urban Weigl

A full month only has 720 hours, but apart from that BoneCollector I can't quite agree with you. ISP's in New Zealand for example specifically quote on their web site that you can stay online the full month (some have 300 hour packages for about 12 euros and 720 hour packages (full month!) for around 14 euros. You may want to leave the connection on overnight to run downloads, or in my case I need to keep some SSH sessions open for long periods of time to monitor servers.

Jason01

I agree with the people who say that the 180 (or whatever) hours per month FRIACO package that will be offered in Ireland is very disapointing.

I really thought it would be a 24/7 flat rate offering like the UK.

When I lived in the UK, I had a FRIACO package (and yes, it was FRIACO) where it was advertised as a 24/7 flat rate package. Paid my £14.99 a month and no more. OK, I certainly didn't use it 24/7 but I reckon I used it for about 300 hours per month. It did cut me off after 2 hours but you can just re-connect straight away. There was never any limit on how many hours I could be online for.

It seems that with the new offerings which will be launched in Ireland after 27th June, they are not really FLAT RATE, because if a person went over the maximum limit of hours online, they will pay extra on top of their monthly fee.


Just my 2 cents worth.....

SkepticOne

Originally posted by Jason01
When I lived in the UK, I had a FRIACO package (and yes, it was FRIACO) where it was advertised as a 24/7 flat rate package. Paid my £14.99 a month and no more. OK, I certainly didn't use it 24/7 but I reckon I used it for about 300 hours per month. It did cut me off after 2 hours but you can just re-connect straight away. There was never any limit on how many hours I could be online for.

That's what I'd like to see. Not necessarily always on, but without a specific time allowance. This would be the approach taken by Freeserve. There was a thread on this a while ago at the invitation of UTV Internet. Not everyone agreed with this approach, with some suggesting a tiered product with different pricings depending on how much you intended to use.

BoneCollector

That's what I'd like to see

Unfortunatly.. if its unspecified 24/7 you will run into the same problem as esat users that where cut off, where abusers of the service will be deemed not to be using it in the spirit of what the service is, and if this is the case then, even if it was true 24/7 there would be a unspecified limits of usage which then advocates there is no 24/7 service.

Setting limits lets the user know where they stand on usage, and sure, you can use it 24/7 upto that limit.

for the life of me.. :rolleyes: i cannot understant how people cannot grasp! the difference between a dialup service and a broadband one, which by the way.. also "has limits" within your 24/7 access after which you do pay more in excess of your allowance.
So why should anyone expect dial up to offer you more!? than broadband!?

Yes we would all like a service that is eat as much as you can chew but lets get realistic here, the world or at leas ireland is not made this way.
:ninja:

SkepticOne

Originally posted by BoneCollector
Unfortunatly.. if its unspecified 24/7 you will run into the same problem as esat users that where cut off, where abusers of the service will be deemed not to be using it in the spirit of what the service is, and if this is the case then, even if it was true 24/7 there would be a unspecified limits of usage which then advocates there is no 24/7 service.

A number of problems with the Esat thing. 1. Esat were the only provider of flat rate at that time. When people were kicked off, they were back to full blown metered internet in all its glory. 2. Esat handled the whole thing in a disgraceful way. 3. The product was quite expensive for the time and did not attract light users. 5. The product placed heavy emphasis on unlimited use in its advertising and called itself "nolimits". 6. There no cut off period implemented even after they said they would implement one.

Plenty of mistakes to learn from.