electronic voting looms...

boo-boo

How do ye feel about electronic voting ?

Meself , I think its crazy & is a disaster waiting to happen.

Theres a campaign started at
http://minds.cs.may.ie/~lovelace/E-Voting/index.shtml
to stop the madness.

"think of the children...will someone please think of the children"
Maude Flanders

Redshift

I don't have a problem with it myself but obviously there are some issues which need to be looked at I think the best solution is to have the machine print out a hard copy reciept of the vote which can be verified by the voter as being correct and then cast into a ballot box in the usual fashion at least a paper back up would be available in the event of a problem or suspected security breach.

Ryan

MrPinK

I think it's gonna have to be done. Counting by hand is slow and more prone to error. Look at problems the Americans had in the last presidential election. Shouldn't have crap like that going on in this day and age. The lack of publically available source code is a bit worrying tho, something that will have to change. What's even more worrying is that the government doesn't even have the source.

http://www.p45.net/dos_prompt/columns/28.html

Capt'n Midnight

It must be open source.
It must use have zero knowlege proofs at several stages.

In a first past the post system you simply count the votes.

We use PR which means the vote transfer mechanism is very important - and since you can get up to 17 transfers it is impossible to workout a totally fair share - so the randomisation will need to be very random ( ) and recounts will should yeild different results

there must be a paper trail - or better still web publish the date/time of votes and which way they went (but not with enough info to work backwards - but in a way that a person could cross check their receipts.. )

Typedef

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
It must be open source.
It must use have zero knowlege proofs at several stages.

Since one is constitutionally entitled to see the 'entire' electoral process, electronic voting can't be closed source.

Then again, since the goverment droids want to run their db's off of a closed source SQL server (Microsoft's version), I believe there is a diminution of transparency to the public.

Seriously on the premis that the German government has moved away from Microsoft products, due to it's closed source nature, this implies that transparency and hence your constitutional ability to view 'each step' of the voting process, from SQL updates, to Kernel locking primitives is in jeopardy or at least subject to the whim of a software giant*

*software in this context means things run on computer.. any allusion to Fianna Fials welched on election manifesto... incidental.

boo-boo

Agree with you re open source, at the very least it must be open source. But the real problem is this, the next general election will use e-voting, even the govt. doesn't have the source never mind the public, there will be no paper trail, there are no guarantees at all that the next election will be kosher. Even when I did work for financial inst. or major companies they insisted on access to the source. How the hell did we get into this situation. What ever about a bank or insurance co getting ripped off, this is a lot more serious.

There are valid reasons for going to e-voting , but at heart they come down to convenience. I think the risks of this far outweigh the benefits.

Capt'n Midnight

Where everyone got a numbered voting slip (until SF pointed this out and we now have secret(ish) ballots.

But now this can be done ?

Zero knowledge proof could be in the form of a reciept which has your name and address , the exact time of voting (to the milisecond - for randomness) on it and the number of the ballot and for each box on the ballot a one way hashed number calculated according to how you voted. The hashing would be based on the name and address on the card and the exact time of voting and the ballot number as well as some unseeded magic numbers.

This way all the ballot numbers (no names) and hash keys could be posted on the internet - so each citizen could verify that their vote was recorded correctly - in a way that was impossible to work back who they were or their exact votes. This makes changing of votes difficult - but does not solve the personation problem - perhaps we could add the number on the ID presented at the voting station - or do as they do at airports and photograph voters at the station - it's all digital ..

Note: at present voting patterns are revealed down to each box (or is that street) level..

Silent Bob

Perhaps a letter to some national newspapers...


Edit: I just mentioned this to my Dad, who demonstrated a typical lack of understanding how computer security works, i.e. "If someone can read the source then they'll be able to crack the system".

I would imagine that this is how the majority of the populace would think...

Capt'n Midnight

you can see all the rules - but you still have to pay up

If it is not open source then who do we trust ?
Name one large well established software company that has not had major software problems at some stage ....

Remember an election is not something you can apply a patch to or fix retrospectively (esp after laws have been passed) and considering the costs involved a refund is laughable
eg: that link to the Airport which is going to cost three times the actual construction cost - sounds funny but every billion wasted by this government is more or less €1,000 per wage earner !

IMHO primary schools reflect the best possible use of money - cheaper than health or other levels of education and a much better payback - only problem is they won't be voting for a long time...

you can bet your sweet ass that if an open source voting system was released it would get a fairly good walkthrough and there would be lots of discussion about it.

Most people in this country would be at most three degrees away from someone who could look at the code or at least understand the technical details involved.

Talliesin

No matter how open-source it is, and how open the compilation process is it will not compete with the Australian ballot system (stick a piece of paper in a box) for transparency. One of the important things about ballot boxes is that any idiot can understand how they work, and hence the public can be a lot more confident in their operation.

Capt'n Midnight

Spoilt votes

IMHO there should be a box for "none of the below"

You vote for the people you want to vote for in order of preferrence - and when you come to the ones you don't want to vote for you put the next number in the "none of the below" box - you continue putting numbers in but this time you are saying who you are not voting for (higher numbers mean more displeasure )

Upon counting - that box is simply skipped over and your next preference used - it is a way of protesting without spoiling your vote or diluting it.

I miss the whole recount thing and the excitement and tallymen do provide a way to keep the system fairly honest in the paper form. I am not saying that we need electronic voting - but if it has to be used then it must be beyond reproach

Talliesin

Originally posted by Capt'n Midnight
IMHO there should be a box for "none of the below"

I agree. Not a technical issue though...